Cutting jobs

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  • EdsonNascimento
    EdsonNascimento Posts: 5,531
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    EdsonNascimento wrote:
    Meanwhile, folks without health care coverage and no money are spending their last dime going to PJ20 when they could be paying for their own preventive visits (I realize that statement will not make me very popular around here). There's more than just our current structure that's messed up.
    erm...pj20 holds about 40,000 people...try again :lol:

    actually most people going to pj20 have to have jobs, most likely with benefits. tickets aren't $50 or anything..

    Well, I'm just taking folks at their word. A few have mentioned no job and forgoing certain things to go. Maybe, their using hyperbole. I have no idea. And tickets are only about $60 for the lawn. Driving, camping. You could do it fairly cheaply. But, as you've indicated - not cheaper than saving for a well visit.

    But, yes. I would also guess that MOST do have that stuff. But, I'd almost guarantee a FEW are doing as I've indicated. Regardless - that's just 1 example.
    Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
  • Bronx Bombers
    Bronx Bombers Posts: 2,208
    Not sure were you're getting your info but none of those countries are doing well especially the Nordic countries.

    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    Bronx Bombers wrote:
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    why is it that the countries in europe have good economies

    Italy, Spain and Greece disagree with this statement
    touche'

    i was referring to any one of the following:


    Germany
    Britain
    France
    The Netherlands
    Belgium
    Norway
    Sweden
    Finland
  • Go Beavers
    Go Beavers Posts: 9,618
    EdsonNascimento wrote:
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    Bronx Bombers wrote:

    Italy, Spain and Greece disagree with this statement
    touche'

    i was referring to any one of the following:


    Germany
    Britain
    France
    The Netherlands
    Belgium
    Norway
    Sweden
    Finland

    So, go live there! No. Just kidding. That's too simple. As is your comments.

    There are so many variables that cause, good/bad economies. We had the same set up in the '80s and we were just fine. This recession will end (as soon as Jimmy Carter is out of office), and the allusion to not having Universal Healthcare causing the great ills will go by the wayside much like Al Gore's Inconvenient Storytelling.

    The fact is - the whole uninsured thing is pure fallacy. We did have universal health coverage. The only difference is its called indigent care. Certainly not ideal. But, folks are insured by the very definition of the word. ER's cannot turn away folks for financial reasons. Thus, others are paying for the care they receive (the def'n of insurance). But, it's a catch 22 - we can regulate the hell out of the health care industry and force certain coverages that folks simply can't afford, or we can go with European Universal Coverage and need to find another country that doesn't have it to go get our care when we are told to stand in line to get necessary tests and surgery.

    Meanwhile, folks without health care coverage and no money are spending their last dime going to PJ20 when they could be paying for their own preventive visits (I realize that statement will not make me very popular around here). There's more than just our current structure that's messed up.

    So the ER doesn't send uninsured people a bill? Don't be too sure about that. I got a bill from the ER when I had insurance, but the ER was "out of network". It was out of the network, but in the same town I worked and lived in---awesome!!!
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    EdsonNascimento wrote:
    The fact is - the whole uninsured thing is pure fallacy. We did have universal health coverage. The only difference is its called indigent care. Certainly not ideal. But, folks are insured by the very definition of the word. ER's cannot turn away folks for financial reasons. Thus, others are paying for the care they receive (the def'n of insurance). But, it's a catch 22 - we can regulate the hell out of the health care industry and force certain coverages that folks simply can't afford, or we can go with European Universal Coverage and need to find another country that doesn't have it to go get our care when we are told to stand in line to get necessary tests and surgery.
    ...
    Here's an idea...
    How about we set up something called, 'Free Clinics' where people can go and get basic health care exams, thus, freeing up the overcrowded and expensive Emergency rooms.
    ...
    Of course, then we'd have to make them bomb proof from those anti-abortion nutcases who think everyone who visits them are there for abortions. We'd probably have to post a military checkpoint... and have close air support available... and under the watchful eye of unmanned drones, 24/7...
    These Free Clinics would only coust about 4.2 billion per year.
    ...
    or we can attempt to educate those anti-abortion nutcases that not everyone who goes to the clinic is there for an abortion... including the males.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • LikeAnOcean
    LikeAnOcean Posts: 7,718
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    why is it that the countries in europe have good economies, low unemployment, and universal healthcare while we have a shitty economy, high unemployment rate, and 30 million without health insurance? if they can do it, why can't we??

    oh yeah....they use socialism, or non-predatory capitalism...what was i thinking?
    A childhood friend of mine moved to Sweden and bought a house... He is a paperboy.


    The problem with capitalism is technology is replacing people. I see it in my work place. I get paid to come up with ways to make the company more efficient. We research new advancements in equipment that will require less human labor.
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,401
    Gob wrote:
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    why is it that the countries in europe have good economies, low unemployment, and universal healthcare while we have a shitty economy, high unemployment rate, and 30 million without health insurance? if they can do it, why can't we??

    oh yeah....they use socialism, or non-predatory capitalism...what was i thinking?
    A childhood friend of mine moved to Sweden and bought a house... He is a paperboy.


    The problem with capitalism is technology is replacing people. I see it in my work place. I get paid to come up with ways to make the company more efficient. We research new advancements in equipment that will require less human labor.
    taht is what happened to the auto industry. look at the old stock footage of these auto plants from the 50s and 60s. people working for as far as you can see. fast forward to auto plants now and robots do much of the work.

    i am seeing it now in my grocery store. there are just as many self checkout lanes and regular ones, therefore making human labor less necessary.

    there are speed cameras and red light cameras that snap a photo of you and next thing you know a ticket shows up in the mail.

    technology, while great, is making human workers obsolete in certain situations.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Smellyman
    Smellyman Asia Posts: 4,528
    Godfather. wrote:
    know1 wrote:
    I support their right to cut jobs or move them elsewhere. People will go where the jobs are.

    you won't see me or anybody I know moving to Poland or China to follow the out sourcing of American Job's...by American company's.

    Godfather.

    Americans need a passport and where to find it on a map first.
  • EdsonNascimento
    EdsonNascimento Posts: 5,531
    Go Beavers wrote:
    So the ER doesn't send uninsured people a bill? Don't be too sure about that. I got a bill from the ER when I had insurance, but the ER was "out of network". It was out of the network, but in the same town I worked and lived in---awesome!!!

    I am not saying there is not a problem with the health care system. Yes, folks get ER bills. Then they generally work with the patient financial services to determine payments. The facility will definitely push to get full payment (don't do that even if you can afford it - if you think jewlery is marked up, forget about it. Hospitals are charging about 10 x's the going rate - you can negotiate). If you truly show you cannot afford (and I don't meant can't afford this minute), they will write of the charges to indigent care. Now, their definition of being able to pay and yours is probably 2 different things. They don't consider concerts a necessity, so you don't get to write that off. They will also set up payment plans, etc.

    There is no such thing as an out of network ER. Your health plan is responsible in some form or another for all emergent care. If it is a Managed Care (HMO/POS) plan, they are responsible for full payment (and you only your copay). If you are in an indemnity plan (or PPO), they have to pay up to the in network value (then you are responsible for the rest). If you are in the latter, you may have higher deductible and coinsurance for being out of network, but that's the insurance you bought (perhaps chosen by your employer). If you want better coverage, pay for it. Do not let the Facility bully you. Know your rights. Check with your insurance carrier. Facilities will bully you and use you as leverage to get more than they rightfully deserve.

    Just because a particular bill is not covered does not mean you don't have some form of insurance (even indigent care). You have homeowners insurance (I hope) - if you burn your own house down it's not covered. That doesn't mean you weren't uninsured. It means you didn't follow the terms of your insurance policy.
    Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,880
    Gob wrote:
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    why is it that the countries in europe have good economies, low unemployment, and universal healthcare while we have a shitty economy, high unemployment rate, and 30 million without health insurance? if they can do it, why can't we??

    oh yeah....they use socialism, or non-predatory capitalism...what was i thinking?
    A childhood friend of mine moved to Sweden and bought a house... He is a paperboy.


    The problem with capitalism is technology is replacing people. I see it in my work place. I get paid to come up with ways to make the company more efficient. We research new advancements in equipment that will require less human labor.

    Those improvements also remove ergonomic issues.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,880
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    Bronx Bombers wrote:
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    why is it that the countries in europe have good economies

    Italy, Spain and Greece disagree with this statement
    touche'

    i was referring to any one of the following:


    Germany
    Britain
    France
    The Netherlands
    Belgium
    Norway
    Sweden
    Finland

    France's unemployment rate is almost 10%...reported as 9.5% in May 2011.
    hippiemom = goodness

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