I also forgot to mention during my initial rant... While I was searching TM's website incessantly right at 5:00PM yesterday, I also called TM to try and buy over the phone. I got through a few minutes after 5:00PM and the ticket agent indicated that the show had already been sold out. Weird. In addition, (just for yucks) I went onto a ticket broker's website BEFORE the tickets went on sale on TM. This website already had tickets for sale WITH Section, Row and seat number! I understand sometimes they are hedging their bets and just selling seats for a section, but these guys already had seat numbers. How did that happen? Didn't think tickets were onsale yet... I suspect a scam, or possible scamola.
it is a scam, I didn't know until last night that ticketmaster owned Stubhub, they probably have employees scalping tickets on that site
1. Brokers posting tickets before a public sale are speculating. They dont always have tickets, but they can get a seating chart and post specific seat locations. They post high price to create a market for higher priced tickets.
2. Brokers have software that allows them to bypass the security codes and buy tickets while you are waiting for the security code screen to appear. Yes in that time 1000's of tickets can be bought.
3. Brokers are in the 10c. A lot more than you think.
4. Brokers always have all the presale passwords.
5. Brokers buy tix from people that have access to tickets that are never offered to the public.
6. After all is said and done, when tix go onsale to the public, you are talking about a relatively small % of the tickets. Hypothetically, it could be 10% for venue hold, 15% for sponsor hold, 15% for promotional hold, 10% for VIP hold, 10% to the fan club (or other presale), for some artists, add another hold for "platinum, gold or silver packages." That is 60% of the tickets before a sale even happens-Id bet in markets like NYC the % of tickets on "hold" is even greater. Most of these include some of the best seats in the house. This is where most brokers get the bulk of their tickets IMHO and this is what PJ is up against at pretty much every venue.
7. TM does not intentionally funnel tickets to brokers (except maybe a few employees). TM does not like folks that resell their product without sharing the profits.
8. TM is trying to capture all the profits made by the brokers. That is why they have raised prices so much and bought tickets now (I dont think they own stubhub-ebay does).
9. Lest we not forget, our government approved the merger of Live Nation and Ticketmaster. No anti-trust issues there :roll:
10. While consumers are getting screwed neither state or federal government agencies seem to give a rats ass about what it costs to attend a show, event, concert, walking with dinosaurs...etc. It is simply not a priority right now.
I tried and couldnt get anything on the presale for hours. Then I looked at Ebay and searched Eddie Vedder Presale Passwords and 3 different listings came up and each one sold about 10-15 times. So are people here selling passwords and ruining it for other fans. The Ten Club specifically asked us not to share it in the email they sent with them. The people buying these passwords are probably scalpers and that is why it is harder to obtain tickets. If no one would share the password, everyone would have a better chance at tickets.
1. Brokers posting tickets before a public sale are speculating. They dont always have tickets, but they can get a seating chart and post specific seat locations. They post high price to create a market for higher priced tickets.
2. Brokers have software that allows them to bypass the security codes and buy tickets while you are waiting for the security code screen to appear. Yes in that time 1000's of tickets can be bought.
3. Brokers are in the 10c. A lot more than you think.
4. Brokers always have all the presale passwords.
5. Brokers buy tix from people that have access to tickets that are never offered to the public.
6. After all is said and done, when tix go onsale to the public, you are talking about a relatively small % of the tickets. Hypothetically, it could be 10% for venue hold, 15% for sponsor hold, 15% for promotional hold, 10% for VIP hold, 10% to the fan club (or other presale), for some artists, add another hold for "platinum, gold or silver packages." That is 60% of the tickets before a sale even happens-Id bet in markets like NYC the % of tickets on "hold" is even greater. Most of these include some of the best seats in the house. This is where most brokers get the bulk of their tickets IMHO and this is what PJ is up against at pretty much every venue.
7. TM does not intentionally funnel tickets to brokers (except maybe a few employees). TM does not like folks that resell their product without sharing the profits.
8. TM is trying to capture all the profits made by the brokers. That is why they have raised prices so much and bought tickets now (I dont think they own stubhub-ebay does).
9. Lest we not forget, our government approved the merger of Live Nation and Ticketmaster. No anti-trust issues there :roll:
10. While consumers are getting screwed neither state or federal government agencies seem to give a rats ass about what it costs to attend a show, event, concert, walking with dinosaurs...etc. It is simply not a priority right now.
Wow, nicely said. It seems like this is too big of an animal to tackle. I'm sure thousands of people who have more a lot more resources and are a lot smarter than me have tried and failed... I wouldn't even know where to start. Calling legislatures? Filing complaints with BBB? The only thing I could think of is bitching about it on 10 club.
Wow, nicely said. It seems like this is too big of an animal to tackle. I'm sure thousands of people who have more a lot more resources and are a lot smarter than me have tried and failed... I wouldn't even know where to start. Calling legislatures? Filing complaints with BBB? The only thing I could think of is bitching about it on 10 club.
Oh I forgot to add that the auction sites have made it so easy for the average Joe to scalp tickets that the average person also has to compete with those "armchair" scalpers in addition to formal brokers. If you take all that into consideration, its no wonder it has become nearly impossible to secure a decent seat at face value.
And someone mentioned it above, the online brokers do pool their tickets so that when you go to a broker's site they list tickets that other broker's have to make it appear like they have a large selection.
How to stop it?
Tougher laws that are actually enforced. IMHO, that is the only way. But it is unlikely that will happen anytime soon given the current state of our country.
If I can't get tickets to shows of bands I like (Phish, Pearl Jam) through the bands, I just show up to the show and try to buy them from the box office or someone out front, I don't deal with Ticketmaster. Someone ALWAYS has an extra, if there are scalpers selling at least I can try to talk them into a certain price from them, it's better than buying from a broker online.
You would be surprised at how much ticket prices drop out front of a venue once the show has started, the scalpers panic because they don't want to get stuck with a ticket, I know it SUCKS to have to deal with getting tickets, but if you work the system, you won't have to deal with BS, you just have to be patient. I have a good friend in Houston that has been a ticket broker for years, he told me people will be getting into the Final Four this weekend for CHEAP, the people that were patient and didn't buy tickets months or weeks ago will get into the games for face value or cheaper.
On Pearl Jam Radio this past week, Tim Bierman (??) said that the tickets are allotted as follows:
1) Ten Club gets some tickets
2) Venue season ticket holders get tickets (Say they play a show at Joe Louis Arena...then Red Wings season ticket holders get the opportunity to buy tickets in an advance presale.)
3) Venue sponsors get tickets
4) Ticketmaster gets tickets
Obviously, people in the groups 2 and 3 may not have any interest in the event. It seems like this is how a lot of asshole scalpers get their tickets.
The problem is that so many venues have deals with ticketmaster...They're certainly popular enough now to try a tour without Ticketmaster, but since TM has a stranglehold on everything, it just won't work.
Presidential Advice from President-Elect Mike McCready: "Are you getting something out of this all encompassing trip?"
If I can't get tickets to shows of bands I like (Phish, Pearl Jam) through the bands, I just show up to the show and try to buy them from the box office or someone out front, I don't deal with Ticketmaster. Someone ALWAYS has an extra, if there are scalpers selling at least I can try to talk them into a certain price from them, it's better than buying from a broker online.
You would be surprised at how much ticket prices drop out front of a venue once the show has started, the scalpers panic because they don't want to get stuck with a ticket, I know it SUCKS to have to deal with getting tickets, but if you work the system, you won't have to deal with BS, you just have to be patient. I have a good friend in Houston that has been a ticket broker for years, he told me people will be getting into the Final Four this weekend for CHEAP, the people that were patient and didn't buy tickets months or weeks ago will get into the games for face value or cheaper.
Indeed. The BCS Championship Game may be an exception, but if you're willing to wait, you can buy many BCS tickets for $50 or less.
Presidential Advice from President-Elect Mike McCready: "Are you getting something out of this all encompassing trip?"
If I can't get tickets to shows of bands I like (Phish, Pearl Jam) through the bands, I just show up to the show and try to buy them from the box office or someone out front, I don't deal with Ticketmaster. Someone ALWAYS has an extra, if there are scalpers selling at least I can try to talk them into a certain price from them, it's better than buying from a broker online.
You would be surprised at how much ticket prices drop out front of a venue once the show has started, the scalpers panic because they don't want to get stuck with a ticket, I know it SUCKS to have to deal with getting tickets, but if you work the system, you won't have to deal with BS, you just have to be patient. I have a good friend in Houston that has been a ticket broker for years, he told me people will be getting into the Final Four this weekend for CHEAP, the people that were patient and didn't buy tickets months or weeks ago will get into the games for face value or cheaper.
Maybe in Texas. But dealing with street scalpers in NYC is a dirty business-fake tickets, bait and switches, dudes running off with your cash..etc.... No thanks. And the moment the lights go out at a concert is part of the reason Im there in the first place.
First , lets start off wih a limit of 2 per show.
Allowing scalpers to buy 4 or 6 with their software takes the tickets out of the normal guys hands, alot quicker.
How about Tickets need to be picked up at the venue,
Photo ID and credit card used for the sale,
but then you are funneled right into the venue.
No going out into the street to go resell tickets,
You must enter the venue immediately after picking up tickets .
Bruce has done this sort of thing in the past, it seemed to cut into the resale market.
For the ones who had a notion, a notion deep inside
That it ain't no sin to be glad you're alive
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Donate Organs and Save a Life
First , lets start off wih a limit of 2 per show.
Allowing scalpers to buy 4 or 6 with their software takes the tickets out of the normal guys hands, alot quicker.
How about Tickets need to be picked up at the venue,
Photo ID and credit card used for the sale,
but then you are funneled right into the venue.
No going out into the street to go resell tickets,
You must enter the venue immediately after picking up tickets .
Bruce has done this sort of thing in the past, it seemed to cut into the resale market.
Ticket master holds tickets back - pay attention bc they will release more tickets closer to the show. Also, with the face value being relatively high, the resale won't be too high with the exception of the front rows. If you just wanna get in for any of the shows tickets will be had for face value or below, just wait.
Ticket master holds tickets back - pay attention bc they will release more tickets closer to the show. Also, with the face value being relatively high, the resale won't be too high with the exception of the front rows. If you just wanna get in for any of the shows tickets will be had for face value or below, just wait.
Good seats get released because they are not taken by the venue/people/companies that they have been set aside for.
For example, I have a friend that works for Coca-cola. He can get tickets to any show at MSG, but he has to let the garden know how many tickets he will need 48 hrs. before the event. When all those commitments are satisfied and there are unclaimed tickets, then they get released. Perhaps some bands, and maybe PJ, require a release of tickets to thwart scalpers, but it certainly is not a deliberate strategy employed by TM.
You are right about the higher face values though, I would guess that is precisely why EV and PJ tix are what they are.
Limiting TM sales to just two/show is good in theory, however, take into account people that have families. We are a family of three that means that one of us wouldn't get to go to the show or we would be sitting separately. :( I think the only way to truly solve it would be make scalping illegal and prosecute. They got on the ball with music downloading when the music industry started throwing a fit, but I guess the industry as a whole doesn't have a real issue with ticket scalping or it would be illegal by now. I guess they are still making money with "ticket brokers" gobbling up all the tickets where they were the ones getting screwed with the downloading thing rather than the fans.
as someone said before...it is a scam. brokers get their seats from venue season ticket holders, from ticketmaster, from the professional sports teams and from the venues themselves. I have no doubt of this and know people in the broker business. ticketmaster owns stubhub. they mark up a portion of their tickets and sell them on there. ticketmaster sells the tickets to joe shmo who sells them to someone, meanwhile stubhub is making a percentage on both the seller and the buyer. stubhub has entire rows of certain sections of sporting events. and not nosebleeds either. seats that you can't find on broker sites. teams are selling through stubhub. the whole tickets business is dirty dirty dirty. too many people getting rich off of it for anything to happen. this is why I respect the 10c for what it does or atleast tries to do. anytime I can secure seats through the 10c I feel lucky really.
I think stubhub is owned by ebay. You must be thinking of ticketsnow.
Most of the sellers on stubhub are in fact brokers and individuals (both insiders and outsiders).
What needs to happen (and I know it never will) is nobody should purchase tix for a couple weeks or however long it would take. Ticketfaggot goes out of business and the venues sell their own tix. That's what should happen. If it could happen now that ev sales are done it would be perfect.
"I read about the evils of drinking, so I gave up reading." - Henry Youngman
I think stubhub is owned by ebay. You must be thinking of ticketsnow.
Most of the sellers on stubhub are in fact brokers and individuals (both insiders and outsiders).
oh yeah you're right. and live nation owns ticketmaster correct?
Log on to e-bay & check out the large number of tickets up for sale to any EV show. It's amazing to see that which ever show you might be looking for, the vast majority of tickets for sale are being sold by people from other states! The tickets are trying to be sold for double to triple face value! My hope is that no one purchases tickets from e-bay & these selfish, greedy, low life, scum bag brokers that are trying to sell tickets from out of state have to eat every last ticket that they are trying to sell! The real fans trying to get tickets on TM for the city closest to them lose out because of these unethical people. It's time for us to take a stand and NEVER purchase tickets from a broker or scalper because we will continue to lose the fight! E-bay also needs to take a stand and not allow tickets to be sold on the site! :x
I have faced it,... A life wasted,...
I'm never going back again.
I think stubhub is owned by ebay. You must be thinking of ticketsnow.
Most of the sellers on stubhub are in fact brokers and individuals (both insiders and outsiders).
oh yeah you're right. and live nation owns ticketmaster correct?
They merged-one corporate entity (I think) operating two brands.
Log on to e-bay & check out the large number of tickets up for sale to any EV show. It's amazing to see that which ever show you might be looking for, the vast majority of tickets for sale are being sold by people from other states! The tickets are trying to be sold for double to triple face value! My hope is that no one purchases tickets from e-bay & these selfish, greedy, low life, scum bag brokers that are trying to sell tickets from out of state have to eat every last ticket that they are trying to sell! The real fans trying to get tickets on TM for the city closest to them lose out because of these unethical people. It's time for us to take a stand and NEVER purchase tickets from a broker or scalper because we will continue to lose the fight! E-bay also needs to take a stand and not allow tickets to be sold on the site! :x
brokers and armchair scalpers-could be your next door neighbor trying to make a buck
but can you think of any reason why ebay would want to increase its monitoring expenses while reducing a huge revenue stream
Not a bad idea, if government pressure can get the hookers off craigs, maybe they can get the scalpers off ebay.
As long as we, the fans, continue to buy these tickets at the scalper's inflated prices, scalpers will continue to exist and thrive. The way to beat them is to not give in to temptation by buying tickets from them. I refuse to, no matter how badly I'm dying to see EV live. I missed out on both presales, and I'm looking at ebay, and the prices make me want to puke. I am a normal guy with a wife and kids, and I can't justify paying $200 for a ticket to see EV.
Ding ding ding, we have a winner! With no demand, they have no business, don't buy from scalpers!!!
First , lets start off wih a limit of 2 per show.
Allowing scalpers to buy 4 or 6 with their software takes the tickets out of the normal guys hands, alot quicker.
How about Tickets need to be picked up at the venue,
Photo ID and credit card used for the sale,
but then you are funneled right into the venue.
No going out into the street to go resell tickets,
You must enter the venue immediately after picking up tickets .
Bruce has done this sort of thing in the past, it seemed to cut into the resale market.
Its a good idea as are paperless tickets.
Agreed on all counts. Get the fans into the box office area, they pick up the tickets, and then go straight into the venue.
Also, I would like to propose the public tazering of all ticket brokers.
Presidential Advice from President-Elect Mike McCready: "Are you getting something out of this all encompassing trip?"
I know there are more important things going on in our country today
I think this compares to everything going on in North America :!: :silent:
1996: Toronto 1998: Barrie 2000: Montreal, Toronto, Auburn Hills 2003: Cleveland, Buffalo, Toronto, Montreal 2004: Boston X2, Grand Rapids 2005: Kitchener, London, Hamilton, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2006: Toronto X2 2009: Toronto 2011: PJ20, Montreal, Toronto X2, Hamilton 2012: Manchester X2, Amsterdam X2, Prague, Berlin X2, Philadelphia, Missoula 2013: Pittsburg, Buffalo 2014: Milan, Trieste, Vienna, Berlin, Stockholm, Oslo, Detroit 2016: Ottawa, Toronto X2 2018: Padova, Rome, Prague, Krakow, Berlin, Barcelona
2022: Ottawa, Hamilton, Toronto 2023: Chicago X2 2024: New York X2
This probably wouldn't be feasible for arena shows obviously.. but for these small venues, why not try what Tragically Hip did in 2009 at the Danforth in Toronto?
Tickets were sold via Ticketmaster... but made WILL CALL ONLY.
Basically, if you bought the tickets with your credit card... only the credit card holder could pick up the tickets AT THE VENUE the DAY OF THE SHOW. (very similar with our 10C tickets) only this isn't exclusive to 10C members... it applies to everyone.
You'd be hosed if down the road you could not attend the show.. but that would be a risk you would have to be willing to take.
This would prevent any scalpers or brokers from hoarding tickets.
Just a suggestion.
Toronto 2000
Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
Boston I&II 2004
Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
Toronto I&II 2011
Buffalo 2013 Toronto I&II 2016 10C: 220xxx
Comments
it is a scam, I didn't know until last night that ticketmaster owned Stubhub, they probably have employees scalping tickets on that site
2. Brokers have software that allows them to bypass the security codes and buy tickets while you are waiting for the security code screen to appear. Yes in that time 1000's of tickets can be bought.
3. Brokers are in the 10c. A lot more than you think.
4. Brokers always have all the presale passwords.
5. Brokers buy tix from people that have access to tickets that are never offered to the public.
6. After all is said and done, when tix go onsale to the public, you are talking about a relatively small % of the tickets. Hypothetically, it could be 10% for venue hold, 15% for sponsor hold, 15% for promotional hold, 10% for VIP hold, 10% to the fan club (or other presale), for some artists, add another hold for "platinum, gold or silver packages." That is 60% of the tickets before a sale even happens-Id bet in markets like NYC the % of tickets on "hold" is even greater. Most of these include some of the best seats in the house. This is where most brokers get the bulk of their tickets IMHO and this is what PJ is up against at pretty much every venue.
7. TM does not intentionally funnel tickets to brokers (except maybe a few employees). TM does not like folks that resell their product without sharing the profits.
8. TM is trying to capture all the profits made by the brokers. That is why they have raised prices so much and bought tickets now (I dont think they own stubhub-ebay does).
9. Lest we not forget, our government approved the merger of Live Nation and Ticketmaster. No anti-trust issues there :roll:
10. While consumers are getting screwed neither state or federal government agencies seem to give a rats ass about what it costs to attend a show, event, concert, walking with dinosaurs...etc. It is simply not a priority right now.
Wow, nicely said. It seems like this is too big of an animal to tackle. I'm sure thousands of people who have more a lot more resources and are a lot smarter than me have tried and failed... I wouldn't even know where to start. Calling legislatures? Filing complaints with BBB? The only thing I could think of is bitching about it on 10 club.
And someone mentioned it above, the online brokers do pool their tickets so that when you go to a broker's site they list tickets that other broker's have to make it appear like they have a large selection.
How to stop it?
Tougher laws that are actually enforced. IMHO, that is the only way. But it is unlikely that will happen anytime soon given the current state of our country.
You would be surprised at how much ticket prices drop out front of a venue once the show has started, the scalpers panic because they don't want to get stuck with a ticket, I know it SUCKS to have to deal with getting tickets, but if you work the system, you won't have to deal with BS, you just have to be patient. I have a good friend in Houston that has been a ticket broker for years, he told me people will be getting into the Final Four this weekend for CHEAP, the people that were patient and didn't buy tickets months or weeks ago will get into the games for face value or cheaper.
4/5,6/9/2003, 9/1/05, 12/7/2005, 7/15,16,18/2006, 8/5/2007
6/24,25/08,6/27/08,6/28/08,6/30/08
9/21,22/2009, 10/4/2009
5/6,7,9/2010, 9/3/2011 9/4/2011, 11/15/2013,
11/16/2013, 12/8/2013, 10/5/2014, 10/12/2014,
4/23, 5/10, 5/12, 8/20, 8/22 2016,
8/8, 8/10, 8/18, 8/20 2018, 5/12, 5/13, 9/20 2022
1) Ten Club gets some tickets
2) Venue season ticket holders get tickets (Say they play a show at Joe Louis Arena...then Red Wings season ticket holders get the opportunity to buy tickets in an advance presale.)
3) Venue sponsors get tickets
4) Ticketmaster gets tickets
Obviously, people in the groups 2 and 3 may not have any interest in the event. It seems like this is how a lot of asshole scalpers get their tickets.
The problem is that so many venues have deals with ticketmaster...They're certainly popular enough now to try a tour without Ticketmaster, but since TM has a stranglehold on everything, it just won't work.
Indeed. The BCS Championship Game may be an exception, but if you're willing to wait, you can buy many BCS tickets for $50 or less.
Maybe in Texas. But dealing with street scalpers in NYC is a dirty business-fake tickets, bait and switches, dudes running off with your cash..etc.... No thanks. And the moment the lights go out at a concert is part of the reason Im there in the first place.
Allowing scalpers to buy 4 or 6 with their software takes the tickets out of the normal guys hands, alot quicker.
How about Tickets need to be picked up at the venue,
Photo ID and credit card used for the sale,
but then you are funneled right into the venue.
No going out into the street to go resell tickets,
You must enter the venue immediately after picking up tickets .
Bruce has done this sort of thing in the past, it seemed to cut into the resale market.
That it ain't no sin to be glad you're alive
ORGAN DONATION SAVES LIVES
http://www.UNOS.org
Donate Organs and Save a Life
For example, I have a friend that works for Coca-cola. He can get tickets to any show at MSG, but he has to let the garden know how many tickets he will need 48 hrs. before the event. When all those commitments are satisfied and there are unclaimed tickets, then they get released. Perhaps some bands, and maybe PJ, require a release of tickets to thwart scalpers, but it certainly is not a deliberate strategy employed by TM.
You are right about the higher face values though, I would guess that is precisely why EV and PJ tix are what they are.
fade away...
I am at peace with my lust.....for Eddie.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cSudpyEU9w
Most of the sellers on stubhub are in fact brokers and individuals (both insiders and outsiders).
oh yeah you're right. and live nation owns ticketmaster correct?
I'm never going back again.
but can you think of any reason why ebay would want to increase its monitoring expenses while reducing a huge revenue stream
Not a bad idea, if government pressure can get the hookers off craigs, maybe they can get the scalpers off ebay.
Ding ding ding, we have a winner! With no demand, they have no business, don't buy from scalpers!!!
Agreed on all counts. Get the fans into the box office area, they pick up the tickets, and then go straight into the venue.
Also, I would like to propose the public tazering of all ticket brokers.
I think this compares to everything going on in North America :!: :silent:
1998: Barrie
2000: Montreal, Toronto, Auburn Hills
2003: Cleveland, Buffalo, Toronto, Montreal
2004: Boston X2, Grand Rapids
2005: Kitchener, London, Hamilton, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto
2006: Toronto X2
2009: Toronto
2011: PJ20, Montreal, Toronto X2, Hamilton
2012: Manchester X2, Amsterdam X2, Prague, Berlin X2, Philadelphia, Missoula
2013: Pittsburg, Buffalo
2014: Milan, Trieste, Vienna, Berlin, Stockholm, Oslo, Detroit
2016: Ottawa, Toronto X2
2018: Padova, Rome, Prague, Krakow, Berlin, Barcelona
2023: Chicago X2
2024: New York X2
Tickets were sold via Ticketmaster... but made WILL CALL ONLY.
Basically, if you bought the tickets with your credit card... only the credit card holder could pick up the tickets AT THE VENUE the DAY OF THE SHOW. (very similar with our 10C tickets) only this isn't exclusive to 10C members... it applies to everyone.
You'd be hosed if down the road you could not attend the show.. but that would be a risk you would have to be willing to take.
This would prevent any scalpers or brokers from hoarding tickets.
Just a suggestion.
Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
Boston I&II 2004
Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
Toronto I&II 2011
Buffalo 2013
Toronto I&II 2016
10C: 220xxx