Why isn't abortion considered murder?

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  • Blockhead
    Blockhead Posts: 1,538
    edited March 2011
    Byrnzie wrote:
    HeidiJam wrote:
    If you don't consider an embryo a life then why are you protecting a turtle egg???

    I'm not.

    There are no turtles in my neighbourhood.
    I meant "you" as in the law. You seem to support the idea of protecting an endangered species embryo, why is that???
    Post edited by Blockhead on
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    HeidiJam wrote:
    So an endangered turtle egg (embryo) now = a turtle, but a human embryo is not a human at the earliest stage of development???

    I didn't say that a turtle egg = a turtle. A turtle egg is just that: an egg.
  • Blockhead
    Blockhead Posts: 1,538
    Byrnzie wrote:
    HeidiJam wrote:
    So an endangered turtle egg (embryo) now = a turtle, but a human embryo is not a human at the earliest stage of development???

    I didn't say that a turtle egg = a turtle. A turtle egg is just that: an egg.
    then why do we need to protect an endangered species egg, if thats all it is an egg???
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    HeidiJam wrote:
    then why do we need to protect an endangered species egg, if thats all it is an egg???

    The same reason we'd protect sperm banks in the case of mass extinction of the human race.
  • Blockhead
    Blockhead Posts: 1,538
    Byrnzie wrote:
    HeidiJam wrote:
    then why do we need to protect an endangered species egg, if thats all it is an egg???

    The same reason we'd protect sperm banks in the case of mass extinction of the human race.
    How about you actually answer the question...
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    HeidiJam wrote:
    Byrnzie wrote:
    HeidiJam wrote:
    then why do we need to protect an endangered species egg, if thats all it is an egg???

    The same reason we'd protect sperm banks in the case of mass extinction of the human race.
    How about you actually answer the question...

    I did.
  • Blockhead
    Blockhead Posts: 1,538
    Byrnzie wrote:
    HeidiJam wrote:
    Byrnzie wrote:
    The same reason we'd protect sperm banks in the case of mass extinction of the human race.
    How about you actually answer the question...

    I did.
    and what is that same reason???
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    edited March 2011
    Wow I've seen this thread go to some mighty weird places :?

    arguing whether a human fetus ....

    (not a jack off! not a turtle egg! not a pet!.... Really?)

    is a human being, with hands and feet and toes and fingers and eyes and a brain
    and a tiny heart beat ....

    arguing whether it is life or not.

    Why is it so hard to admit abortion is what is it?

    It is legal..it is necessary

    it is what is is.

    It is legalized murder...it has been legal for 38 years. It's here to stay.

    Women will not and should not give up the right to choose.

    As I mentioned capitol punishment is also legalized murder.

    Having been the only woman, I think, here to admit she has had an abortion,
    my point in doing so was to say, I made the wrong decision.

    I realize the need... women need to have the choice, we do not all think alike. We need to be safe when terminating a fetus and not all women are in a position to be able to sacrifice to give life.

    I thought I needed to have an abortion. It was the easy solution... I thought at age 16.....
    fly to New York, boom done problem solved in a matter of a day.
    I didn't realize for me it would be a lifetime of guilt. Which set in immediately....
    an empty horrible feeling.

    I could have been unselfish, given 9 months of life to give life. Given my baby up for adoption
    to a couple who needed a child to love. Given life to a person who needed life.

    My point is that the real tragedy is the logical thought behind abortion instead of thinking with your heart.
    This is easy to do because it doesn't hurt. It is easy to be selfish.

    Our choices in life should be decided with our hearts, most especially regarding human life,
    in my opinion.
    Post edited by pandora on
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    HeidiJam wrote:
    and what is that same reason???

    To prevent extinction of a species.
  • Blockhead
    Blockhead Posts: 1,538
    Byrnzie wrote:
    HeidiJam wrote:
    and what is that same reason???

    To prevent extinction of a species.
    but according to you its just an egg, right??? so your not endangering a species...
  • g under p
    g under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,237
    pandora wrote:
    Wow I've seen this thread go to some mighty weird places :?

    arguing whether a human fetus ....

    (not a jack off! not a turtle egg! not a pet!.... Really?)

    is a human being, with hands and feet and toes and fingers and eyes and a brain
    and a tiny heart beat ....

    arguing whether it is life or not.

    Why is it so hard to admit abortion is what is it?

    It is legal..it is necessary

    it is what is is.

    It is legalized murder...it has been legal for 38 years. It's here to stay.

    Women will not and should not give up the right to choose.

    As I mentioned capitol punishment is also legalized murder.

    Having been the only woman, I think, here to admit she has had an abortion,
    my point in doing so was to say, I made the wrong decision.

    I realize the need... women need to have the choice, we do not all think alike. We need to be safe when terminating a fetus and not all women are in a position to be able to sacrifice to give life.

    I thought I needed to have an abortion. It was the easy solution... I thought at age 16.....
    fly to New York, boom done problem solved in a matter of a day.
    I didn't realize for me it would be a lifetime of guilt. Which set in immediately....
    an empty horrible feeling.

    I could have been unselfish, given 9 months of life of give life. Given my baby up for adoption
    to a couple who needed a child to love. Given life to a person who needed life.

    My point is that the real tragedy is the logical thought behind abortion instead of thinking with your heart.
    This is easy to do because it doesn't hurt. It is easy to be selfish.

    Our choices in life should be decided with our hearts, most especially regarding human life,
    in my opinion.

    :clap: Good post...several of your references I've been there and sadly I've experienced them.

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    HeidiJam wrote:
    Byrnzie wrote:
    HeidiJam wrote:
    and what is that same reason???

    To prevent extinction of a species.
    but according to you its just an egg, right??? so your not endangering a species...

    You really need to go back to school.
  • Blockhead
    Blockhead Posts: 1,538
    Byrnzie wrote:
    HeidiJam wrote:
    but according to you its just an egg, right??? so your not endangering a species...

    You really need to go back to school.
    Your just afraid of answer the question because it will prove my point.
  • keeponrockin
    keeponrockin Posts: 7,446
    What should punishment be Heidi? And are you willing to raise taxes to fund the needed welfare programs?
    Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    HeidiJam wrote:
    Byrnzie wrote:
    HeidiJam wrote:
    but according to you its just an egg, right??? so your not endangering a species...

    You really need to go back to school.
    Your just afraid of answer the question because it will prove my point.

    If every man on the planet had his balls removed today then that would endanger the species. But that doesn't mean that there are millions of human beings in every mans bollocks.

    You really have no point. You're just trying desperately to convince everyone of a complete absurdity.

    Like I said above, following your logic I commit genocide everytime I jerk off.
  • g under p
    g under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,237
    edited March 2011
    HeidiJam wrote:
    but according to you its just an egg, right??? so your not endangering a species...

    Byrnzie wrote:
    HeidiJam wrote:
    Byrnzie wrote:
    You really need to go back to school.
    Your just afraid of answer the question because it will prove my point.

    If every man on the planet had his balls removed today then that would endanger the species. But that doesn't mean that there are millions of human beings in every mans bollocks.

    You really have no point. You're just trying desperately to convince everyone of a complete absurdity.

    Like I said above, following your logic I commit genocide everytime I jerk off.

    .....and that's why we come back to these lines from the movie...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fuDDqU6n4o

    Peace
    Post edited by g under p on
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • Blockhead
    Blockhead Posts: 1,538
    Byrnzie wrote:
    If every man on the planet had his balls removed today then that would endanger the species. But that doesn't mean that there are millions of human beings in every mans bollocks.

    You really have no point. You're just trying desperately to convince everyone of a complete absurdity.

    Like I said above, following your logic I commit genocide everytime I jerk off.
    I am sorry I have to ask again, but are you really that stupid.
    Sperm BY ITS SELF can not turn into life. Why do you keep posting that... That has nothing to do with an embryo (which is LIFE in the earliest stage of development)
  • he still stands
    he still stands Posts: 2,835
    guys, please take just a cursory look at the debate's history and understand the difference between life and personhood. After doing so, you'll see why calling it "murder" is a pejorative and doesn't belong in a rational and reasonable debate. Nevertheless, abortion is usually the wrong choice, in my opinion.
    Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
  • Blockhead
    Blockhead Posts: 1,538
    Byrnzie wrote:
    HeidiJam wrote:
    Byrnzie wrote:
    If every man on the planet had his balls removed today then that would endanger the species. But that doesn't mean that there are millions of human beings in every mans bollocks.

    You really have no point. You're just trying desperately to convince everyone of a complete absurdity.

    Like I said above, following your logic I commit genocide everytime I jerk off.
    Yes I have a point, your to stupid to follow. Your so wrapped up in Choice and your political bias that your not getting that any way you look at it, an embryo is the earliest stage of human life, there for it is a human. If your for protecting egg of other animals why are you against protecting embyos of humans?
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    HeidiJam wrote:
    I am sorry I have to ask again, but are you really that stupid.

    Nice touch. Seems to be the norm with you.

    Have you been reading the book 'How to win friends and influence people'? Or are you still on the Teenage Mutant Ninja turtles series?


    HeidiJam wrote:
    Sperm BY ITS SELF can not turn into life.

    Neither can an egg without being kept warm by the mother.

    And neither can a human embryo:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viability_%28fetal%29
    'The United States Supreme Court stated in Roe v. Wade (1973) that viability (i.e., the "interim point at which the fetus becomes ... potentially able to live outside the mother's womb, albeit with artificial aid"[3]) "is usually placed at about seven months (28 weeks) but may occur earlier, even at 24 weeks."[3] The 28-week definition became part of the "trimester framework" marking the point at which the "compelling state interest" (under the doctrine of strict scrutiny) in preserving potential life became possibly controlling, permitting states to freely regulate and even ban abortion after the 28th week.'

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