Libya

mikepegg44 · February 2011

puremagic wrote:

Just like in the case of Iraq and, now in Libya, the US turns a blind eye as long as their needs are being served. Along with the oil benefits, Libya was part of ‘secret’ prison program against terrorists. Now Gahdafi has become the new Saddam Hussein and Libya the new Iraq.

So we begin with UN sanctions and reviewing military options against Libya
http://www.politicsdaily.com/2011/02/23 ... must-stop/

Why aren’t these same measures taken against Bahrain?
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/ ... L420110218

If the US is going to play the global instigator, then they should be fair to all the people seeking relief from these dictators and Kings. If we are going to commit to military actions to help people achieve their economical and social rights could it not take ten years?

not saying this as a smart ass, but do you have a link to an article about libya being part of the secret prison system I am having a hard time finding anything

puremagic · February 2011

mikepegg44 wrote:

puremagic wrote:

Just like in the case of Iraq and, now in Libya, the US turns a blind eye as long as their needs are being served. Along with the oil benefits, Libya was part of ‘secret’ prison program against terrorists. Now Gahdafi has become the new Saddam Hussein and Libya the new Iraq.

So we begin with UN sanctions and reviewing military options against Libya
http://www.politicsdaily.com/2011/02/23 ... must-stop/

Why aren’t these same measures taken against Bahrain?
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/ ... L420110218

If the US is going to play the global instigator, then they should be fair to all the people seeking relief from these dictators and Kings. If we are going to commit to military actions to help people achieve their economical and social rights could it not take ten years?

not saying this as a smart ass, but do you have a link to an article about libya being part of the secret prison system I am having a hard time finding anything

Not a problem, there's more, but here you go.

http://www.alternet.org/story/41923/
Trevor Paglen: I research military secrecy at Berkeley and there is a community there trying to figure out what military programs are. At some point, this hobbyist community became aware that there were these civilian planes flying around, acting as if they were working in military black programs. These people started tracking the planes and repeatedly seeing them in places like Libya and Guantanamo Bay. It became pretty clear that this was a CIA thing and that these were planes that were involved in the extraordinary rendition program.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 03412.html
A former CIA high-value detainee, who provided bogus information that was cited by the Bush administration in the run-up to the Iraq war, has died in a Libyan prison, an apparent suicide, according to a Libyan newspaper.

http://legalift.wordpress.com/category/libya/
Amnesty International confirms detention of at least 6 individuals transferred from secret US custody to Libya
Posted on 16 July, 2010 by Mathias Vermeulen
During its visit to Abu Salim Prison on 19 May 2009, Amnesty International was able to confirm the detention at the time of six individuals transferred from secret US custody to Libya, namely: al-Mahdi Jawda, aka Ayoub al-Libi; Majid Abu Yasser, aka Adnan al-Libi; Abdelhakim Bilhadj Al-Kwaildi, aka Abdullah al Sadeq; Khalid al-Sharif, aka Abu [...]

zarocat · February 2011

___________ wrote:

zarocat wrote:

That last sentence makes perfect sense, lol
Everything will fail ... You don't believe or know that deep down ?

stable 1 |ˈstābəl|
adjective ( -bler , -blest )
not likely to change or fail

unstable |ˌənˈstābəl|
adjective ( -bler, -blest)
prone to change, fail, or give way; not stable

The regime in Egypt for example was completely stable. It was kept alive by the notion of fear and apathy that had plagued the Egyptians.

That's instability.
Instability is a notion of stability. Instability is a notion of stability.
("notion of stability" <--Which are your words ... I knew you'd come around)
All is unstable. Everything. The way the U.S. likes it because they have set up shop to work along side of it because instability is all that exists.
We are not using the word 'stability' here to suggest something is actually stable. A 'notion of stability' applies. Not actual stability. Oh man
Also, I'm sorry you're unable to agree to disagree. I highly recommend it. You'll breathe better.

P.S. I've seen a yellow sky before

zarocat · February 2011

___________ wrote:

zarocat wrote:

That last sentence makes perfect sense, lol
Everything will fail ... You don't believe or know that deep down ?

stable 1 |ˈstābəl|
adjective ( -bler , -blest )
not likely to change or fail

unstable |ˌənˈstābəl|
adjective ( -bler, -blest)
prone to change, fail, or give way; not stable

Dude, WHAT arey ou talking about? Jesus christ. You're basically saying that the American government is unstable. Why? Because it MAY experience instability in the future, who knows, so it might as well be considered unstable.

The instability of the American government is constant!

zarocat · February 2011

___________ wrote:

zarocat wrote:

That last sentence makes perfect sense, lol
Everything will fail ... You don't believe or know that deep down ?

stable 1 |ˈstābəl|
adjective ( -bler , -blest )
not likely to change or fail

unstable |ˌənˈstābəl|
adjective ( -bler, -blest)
prone to change, fail, or give way; not stable

Stop arguing in absolutes, it's not helping your argument

My argument is that all is unstable. Do you understand that ? The U.S. benefits from the instability ? Do you understand that ? The U.S. encourages instability. Period. A NOTION of stability is what you're trying to pass stability as, but a notion of stability is instability which is directly related to this argument.
We are not talking about an object sitting on a dresser which is actually stable. We are talking about human behaviour which can only be a notion of stability making it unstable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_mDTLph ... re=related :angel:

Ok. All that aside.

A quick question if I may just to get an understanding (possibly) of the person I'm speaking with.

___________, Is America a democracy ?

If you don't want to answer, that's cool ... i'll delete the post

fuck · February 2011

zarocat wrote:

___________ wrote:

zarocat wrote:

That last sentence makes perfect sense, lol
Everything will fail ... You don't believe or know that deep down ?

stable 1 |ˈstābəl|
adjective ( -bler , -blest )
not likely to change or fail

unstable |ˌənˈstābəl|
adjective ( -bler, -blest)
prone to change, fail, or give way; not stable

Stop arguing in absolutes, it's not helping your argument

My argument is that all is unstable. Do you understand that ? The U.S. benefits from the instability ? Do you understand that ? The U.S. encourages instability. Period. A NOTION of stability is what you're trying to pass stability as, but a notion of stability is instability which is directly related to this argument.
We are not talking about an object sitting on a dresser which is actually stable. We are talking about human behaviour which can only be a notion of stability making it unstable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_mDTLph ... re=related :angel:

Ok. All that aside.

A quick question if I may just to get an understanding (possibly) of the person I'm speaking with.

___________, Is America a democracy ?

If you don't want to answer, that's cool ... i'll delete the post

so there's no such thing as a stable government? theoretically your argument may be sound but it's fucking ABSOLUTELY IRRELEVANT. when analyzing whether a government will get toppled or not, we try to analyze whether it is stable (i.e. powerful enough to maintain its hold) or unstable (i.e. unpopular enough so that enough people will be willing to overturn it). it's just rhetoric. you're trying to argue something much bigger and irrelevant to the conversation.

Electric_Delta · February 2011

This shows Obama's true colors. Protestors are getting whacked while he says nothing. History will remmeber him in this way.

zarocat · February 2011

___________ wrote:

it's just rhetoric. you're trying to argue something much bigger and irrelevant to the conversation.

I do envy your ability to exclude the much bigger

gimmesometruth27 · February 2011

Electric_Delta wrote:

This shows Obama's true colors. Protestors are getting whacked while he says nothing. History will remmeber him in this way.

what do you want him to do? you are a tea partier right? see my post earlier in this thread. what would ron paul do? would you rather george bush go in there with team america and end up occupying lybia and nation building just like iraq? what funds would you use, and what would you cut from our budget to pay for this little detour into lybia????

bush would get us into another B.Y.O.B. situation, Obama is not going to do that...

Hangars sitting dripped in oil,
Crying FREEDOM!
Handed to obsoletion,
Still you feed us lies from the table cloth.

keeponrockin · February 2011

Electric_Delta wrote:

This shows Obama's true colors. Protestors are getting whacked while he says nothing. History will remmeber him in this way.

So did it show GB1's true colours when he did fuck all during Tiananmen Square? What about Nixon's during Kent State, his own people fired on protesters.

Electric_Delta · February 2011

keeponrockin wrote:

Electric_Delta wrote:

This shows Obama's true colors. Protestors are getting whacked while he says nothing. History will remmeber him in this way.

So did it show GB1's true colours when he did fuck all during Tiananmen Square? What about Nixon's during Kent State, his own people fired on protesters.

You'll get no argument from me. Two good points regarding two horrible presidents.

keeponrockin · February 2011

Electric_Delta wrote:

keeponrockin wrote:

Electric_Delta wrote:

This shows Obama's true colors. Protestors are getting whacked while he says nothing. History will remmeber him in this way.

So did it show GB1's true colours when he did fuck all during Tiananmen Square? What about Nixon's during Kent State, his own people fired on protesters.

You'll get no argument from me. Two good points regarding two horrible presidents.

I'm just not sure what Obama is supposed to do in this situation? And I'd say the same thing if a Republican was in office.

Suzi78 · February 2011

There is not much Obama can say that would actually make a difference for the Libyan people and stop the violence. Sure, the president can show his support, condemn the violence and demand a resignation, but it won't matter to Khadaffi (or Gadhaffi, or Kadaffi, or Quaddaffi, or however it is spelled...seen so many different versions) what Obama says. Besides, the countries who should really speak up and demand his resignation, cut his assets etc, are European countries such as Italy, Spain, the UK. That's where the majority of Libyan oil is exported and they are the ones who have had close business relationships with Khadaffi in the past.
It wasn't until quite recently that the western world cut the sanctions that had been imposed on Libya for many years, so they are quite used to living under an embargo and sanctions. Even if those are re-instated, it won't make a difference. They have oil, and they have lived under an embargo before, they can do it again.
I believe the only way to stop the violence is if the U.S and EU treat the violence in Libya as genocide and take military action together. But I'm afraid that as usual, the EU will wait for the U.S to take action first, and by then too many lives will have been lost. I guess we didn't learn anything from Bosnia. It is all so sad.

Byrnzie · February 2011

gimmesometruth27 · February 2011

Byrnzie wrote:

is that Jimmy Superfly Snuka with an eager fan?

fuck · February 2011

Sanctions have been put on Libya. Not that this will matter at all to Qadhdhafi. I think he's a coward. I really don't see him fighting to his death. He'll run away when it comes down to it, possibly to Italy, though I would like him to be put to death for all those lives he's cost. It would also be a powerful message to the rest of the dictators. I hope they're shaking in their seats.

redrock · February 2011

Suzi78 wrote:

Besides, the countries who should really speak up and demand his resignation, cut his assets etc, are European countries such as Italy, Spain, the UK. ....

And they have. The UK have also frozen their assets in the country. Betcha he's got loads in countries which are too scrupulous...

Suzi78 wrote:

I believe the only way to stop the violence is if the U.S and EU treat the violence in Libya as genocide and take military action together. But I'm afraid that as usual, the EU will wait for the U.S to take action first, and by then too many lives will have been lost. I guess we didn't learn anything from Bosnia. It is all so sad.

I don't believe that external interference as you mention is really the way forward. It would actually be quite hypocritical for any military action to take place when there are other 'internal' conflicts that are ignored.

It was foolish for the western world to think that this 'unrest' they so enthusiastically supported and even encouraged in the middle east would be more or less as peaceful as it was in Tunisia. What is happening in Libya and could happen in other countries is plain civil war, with all the violence and horror that goes with it. Simple. Harsh reality but this will eventually end on it's own without external 'action'. Lots more death and mayhem will go with it.

chadwick · October 2013

fascinating in a bad way

http://youtu.be/gD7wodLT-BY - muammar gaddafi had under ground prisons
http://youtu.be/vhabIVAgWRw - muammar's son's secret palace

friggin wild shit

Libya

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