End of History

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  • BinauralJam
    BinauralJam Posts: 14,158
    he still stands wrote:
    BinauralJam wrote:
    Aren't we a Republic?

    I think it is more of an Anarcho-Syndicated Commune. :D

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAaWvVFERVA


    :lol::lol::lol: that's some funny shit
  • jg1988
    jg1988 Posts: 181
    he still stands wrote:
    jg1988 wrote:
    I am not talking about one single country, I am talking about the progression of history as a whole. Democracy being the end of the road.

    well, I don't know about that. Communism can't really be called a progression because only a few countries really attempted it and literally ZERO actually were a funcitonal Communist state. Fascism should be relabeled "Authoritarianism" which is VERY much alive and one could definitely argue the US more of an Nationalist Authoritarian state than a democracy. Fascism is a child of the authoritarian state, which I guess would include Monarchy, Dictatorship, etc. The point is, it's alive and well and I think we're gravitating towards that sort of a type of government more than liberal democracy. Most of the Middle East is a Theocracy, too. And what about Government of consent, not of coercion? (anarchism)

    I see a trend away from democracy and towards a coercive, fascist, autocratic regime.

    Then what accounts for the demand of democracy in countries like Egypt and Tunisia? I feel like you all are missing the point.
  • he still stands
    he still stands Posts: 2,835
    I don't know it just really seems like you are over simplifying the "trend toward democracy." Of course any rational person would rather live in a democracy than an authoritarian regime of any type. The only ones who aren't in that frame of mind are those who have bought into some bullshit ideology or those who have always been oppressed and don't know any better.

    The problem with your argument is that it purports that "democracy is democracy"... in other words it is a construct when in reality it is very a flexible concept with many varying levels of freedom and government power. Another problem is that what everyone is told is "democracy" is a watered down version of fascist police state (esp. in the case of the U.S).

    I hope the trend evolves to the only place where total freedom is possible, and that is a government of CONSENT, not of COERCION.
    Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
  • FiveB247x
    FiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    That idea is very flawed and simplistic. In fact one can say because the fall of the USSR, it created a much more unpredictable and unstable world filled with more geo-political and international terrorism as well as lawlessness and corruption. The notion that "democracy" or the "US" won the Cold War and the world is better for it is a naive idea. Perhaps democracy in practice is better than communism, but in practical terms, the end of the Cold War opened a can of worms in which a multitude of enemies which many hold no physical boundaries like the old and distinct USSR and bloc.

    Also, in terms of Egypt, what is going on there is great for anyone who believes in democracy. But with that said, it remains to be seen how it will effect the rest of the Middle East or US relations going forward.
    jg1988 wrote:
    Francis Fukayama wrote a book after the USSR fell apart and theorized now that the Soviet bloc has crumbled history had essentially ended. He meant that the progression of governments toward a democratic or liberal state signified the end of political progression. People around the world are demanding democratic/ liberal ideals as seen recently with Tunisia, Egypt and now Jordan appeasing the will of the people. Do you think that Fukayama was right? Is there any other form of government that would better serve the people? I realize that a lot of people have little faith in the American political process, however shouldn't it be recognized that America is a very young country compared to Egypt (the cradle of civilization) and is doing something right?
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • Electric_Delta
    Electric_Delta Posts: 977
    jg1988 wrote:
    Francis Fukayama wrote a book after the USSR fell apart and theorized now that the Soviet bloc has crumbled history had essentially ended. He meant that the progression of governments toward a democratic or liberal state signified the end of political progression. People around the world are demanding democratic/ liberal ideals as seen recently with Tunisia, Egypt and now Jordan appeasing the will of the people. Do you think that Fukayama was right? Is there any other form of government that would better serve the people? I realize that a lot of people have little faith in the American political process, however shouldn't it be recognized that America is a very young country compared to Egypt (the cradle of civilization) and is doing something right?

    People naturally want to be free. It's in our nature to oppose oppression.

    Communism is a bullshit system. Self-governance has proven itself to be the best option.
    Bristow, VA (5/13/10)
  • jg1988
    jg1988 Posts: 181
    he still stands wrote:
    I don't know it just really seems like you are over simplifying the "trend toward democracy." Of course any rational person would rather live in a democracy than an authoritarian regime of any type. The only ones who aren't in that frame of mind are those who have bought into some bullshit ideology or those who have always been oppressed and don't know any better.

    The problem with your argument is that it purports that "democracy is democracy"... in other words it is a construct when in reality it is very a flexible concept with many varying levels of freedom and government power. Another problem is that what everyone is told is "democracy" is a watered down version of fascist police state (esp. in the case of the U.S).

    I hope the trend evolves to the only place where total freedom is possible, and that is a government of CONSENT, not of COERCION.

    Then it seems that democracy is the end of the progression of history. Sure there can be varying levels of freedoms within a democracy, however you are given certain rights that are universal that are not seen in communist or fascist states. Even in the US, which you purport to be a fascist police state, people have the notion that they can control their lives with certain rights and freedoms.
  • whygohome
    whygohome Posts: 2,305
    The U.S. has the best system the world has seen.....so far. it would take a narrow-mind and an over-inflated ego to believe that our society, our form of gov't is the be-all-end-all. How many other nations and/or empires thought the same?

    The dream marriage of democracy and capitalism has (though not obviously seen) degenerated into a corporate oligarchy. The reasons for this include greed, lust for power, and a docile public. The number of those living in poverty has increased over the past few decades; the lower class is growing, while the middle class is shrinking. The haves have more, the have nots are oppressed and are seeing the ladders to the middle class pushed aside like those of the orcs at the Battle of Helm's Deep (yes! a Lord of the Rings reference!). Corporate profits are through the roof, and they have the true power to create jobs in the U.S., and instead they ship them overseas so those profits can continue to rise. All this while our infrastructure turns to shit, as our pipelines and methods for providing clean water to the public disintegrate, as our education system fails, as we are the only nation not to embrace high-speed rails and clean energy, and as we continue to mindlessly defend Corporate America, while going to the new Church of America, Wal-Mart, to purchase good made in Asia.
    In my opinion, we will see a Tunisia or Egypt in this country because of the injustices I have briefly outlined. The poor, the oppressed will arm themselves and take to the streets. the battleground will not focus on Pennsylvania Ave. though, it will be Wall St., as we wake up and finally realize who the real oppressor is.

    Things could be better; things could always be better.
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    Electric_Delta wrote:
    jg1988 wrote:
    Francis Fukayama wrote a book after the USSR fell apart and theorized now that the Soviet bloc has crumbled history had essentially ended. He meant that the progression of governments toward a democratic or liberal state signified the end of political progression. People around the world are demanding democratic/ liberal ideals as seen recently with Tunisia, Egypt and now Jordan appeasing the will of the people. Do you think that Fukayama was right? Is there any other form of government that would better serve the people? I realize that a lot of people have little faith in the American political process, however shouldn't it be recognized that America is a very young country compared to Egypt (the cradle of civilization) and is doing something right?

    People naturally want to be free. It's in our nature to oppose oppression.

    Communism is a bullshit system. Self-governance has proven itself to be the best option.


    please define self governance.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say

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