Assange: He Broke Shit

Best of Times
Best of Times Posts: 296
edited December 2010 in A Moving Train
There's been a lot of talk on other threads regarding the innocence of Assange.
Maybe some of the more legally-minded here could shed some light on his chances.

Among the criminal laws apparently broken by Assange is 18 U.S.C. 793(e), which provides:

"Whoever having unauthorized possession of, access to, or control over any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, (etc. etc.) relating to the national defense, ... (which) the possessor has reason to believe could be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of any foreign nation, willfully communicates (etc. etc) the same to any person not entitled to receive it, or willfully retains the same (etc) ...

"Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both."

As is evident, merely being in unauthorized possession of classified national security documents that could be used to harm this country and publishing those documents constitutes a felony.

Depending on the facts adduced at trial, there are about a half-dozen other federal laws that might apply to the WikiLeaks document dump, including 18 USC 641, which provides that any person who "receives" or "retains" a "thing of value of the United States" knowing "it to have been embezzled, stolen, purloined or converted" is also guilty of a felony, punishable by up to ten years in prison.

Classified information is valuable government property.

The entire public discussion about prosecuting Assange has been neurotically fixated on the First Amendment, as if that matters. Is Assange a "journalist"? What kind of journalist? Who is a "journalist" in the world of the Internet?

Assange's lawyer, naturally, wraps his client in the First Amendment, saying Assange "is entitled to First Amendment protection as publisher of WikiLeaks."

Even Sen. Diane Feinstein, who wants Assange prosecuted -- has responded to Assange's free speech defense by saying, "But he is no journalist: He is an agitator intent on damaging our government, whose policies he happens to disagree with, regardless of who gets hurt."
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • ONCE DEVIDED
    ONCE DEVIDED Posts: 1,131
    Our Government is just that
    OURS
    not theirs to keep to lie an deceive

    Open and honest is the way I must conduct my work.
    I expect the same from my elected reps
    AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE
  • JOEJOEJOE
    JOEJOEJOE Posts: 10,829
    This is such a difficult case.....it important for the govt to be transparent, but at the same time, it is important that national security be preserved.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    JOEJOEJOE wrote:
    This is such a difficult case.....it important for the govt to be transparent, but at the same time, it is important that national security be preserved.

    Haven't Wikileaks already stated that they won't release material that could be used to physically harm anyone? Anyway, this isn't about America's 'national security', it's about the security of the lying, swindling cocksuckers in the U.S government.
  • JOEJOEJOE
    JOEJOEJOE Posts: 10,829
    Byrnzie wrote:
    JOEJOEJOE wrote:
    This is such a difficult case.....it important for the govt to be transparent, but at the same time, it is important that national security be preserved.

    Haven't Wikileaks already stated that they won't release material that could be used to physically harm anyone? Anyway, this isn't about America's 'national security', it's about the security of the lying, swindling cocksuckers in the U.S government.

    How do they know what info can and can't bring physical harm to anyone?
  • ONCE DEVIDED
    ONCE DEVIDED Posts: 1,131
    And didnt wiki leaks ask governments to help check over docs as well before they were published only to be told. that they wont help but only take their docs back.
    so that had a choice to vet these docs and chose to keep secrets secret
    now they aint

    for fuck sake in Oz we have Ministers feeding the US secret gov discussions . why shouldnt this come out.
    AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE
  • Commy
    Commy Posts: 4,984
    the supreme court already ruled on this case.



    back when the pentagon papers came out.




    freedom of speech won.


    if you prosecute assange, you're going to have to take on the NYT, the guardian, the bbc, fox news etc.



    assange is merely a journalist.
  • markin ball
    markin ball Posts: 1,076
    He ain't American. How does an American law apply?
    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win ."

    "With our thoughts we make the world"
  • puremagic
    puremagic Posts: 1,907
    They'll classify him as an 'enemy combatant' subject to the laws governing the Patriot Act, which allows the US seize him from any country, even though he's a non-American and prosecute him under the rules of the US Military Code that allows for the charge of TREASON to be sought against a foreign person who willfully acts in the manner of an agent against the US. If released into US custody, the military does not have to afford him a PUBLIC trial, If DOJ is awarded the case, the government would have to defend what is CLASSIFIED and even that could be in a closed court with the records to be sealed and classified.

    The only thing that people in our government and other governments would be afraid of is if those papers revealed the money trails of corporate war profiteers. Good example is where Venezuela was selling China oil at $5 a barrel and China was reselling the oil at a reduced profit to whom, of course, US, at a time when gas prices in the US were reaching record levels. Another example that confirmed what public knew, but didn't want to believe because our government pointed the finger to someone else, Saudi Arabia financed the 9/11 terrorists. Why would countries like Libya, Syria, Vietnam, and Poland house secret prisons?

    Take a step back for just a second, I'll be the first to say, I'd rather be safe than sorry, and to that degree, I'm willing to put up with Homeland Security's measures to protect our society. However, Homeland Security seems to be in charge in name only. There are so many, for profit PRIVATE and INDEPENDENT intelligence gathering companies utilizing the label of CLASSIFIED to gather information on individuals, businesses and financial transactions purely for personal power, control and wealth in order to manipulate and influence governments world-wide.

    Take one more step back, look at the countries that have been taken over by IMF bailouts. There's no way Ireland should have succumbed before Poland, which would have saved Irelend from a bailout but would have placed aneven greater hardship on the UK. Now look at the corporations, financial institutions and the powerful families behind Wall Street and the Federal Reserve that are still making billions while claiming hardship. Even Bank of America has announced that it will no longer process any financial transactions for any company associated with Wiki Leaks.

    Whatever Wiki Leak has, and my guess is even they don't know, it's not about harming the Troops, it's about financial dealings
    SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
  • unsung
    unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    Commy wrote:
    assange is merely a journalist.


    The person that needs to be prosecuted is sitting in a military brig, hopefully left to rot.
  • Best of Times
    Best of Times Posts: 296
    unsung wrote:
    Commy wrote:
    assange is merely a journalist.


    The person that needs to be prosecuted is sitting in a military brig, hopefully left to rot.

    Legally, Assange is more of a mystery to me. I don't really know what they can do to him. But Manning should be tried for treason according to the UCMJ, and if found guilty, executed.

    and to Byrnzie: Even Bill Clinton said this would cost lives. People will die b/c of this leak.
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,405
    if manning is tried for treason and executed then scooter libby should be as well.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Best of Times wrote:
    and to Byrnzie: Even Bill Clinton said this would cost lives. People will die b/c of this leak.

    And many more people have died, and will continue to die, because of the crimes committed by your elected, and unelected, representatives.
  • Best of Times
    Best of Times Posts: 296
    edited December 2010
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Best of Times wrote:
    and to Byrnzie: Even Bill Clinton said this would cost lives. People will die b/c of this leak.

    And many more people have died, and will continue to die, because of the crimes committed by your elected, and unelected, representatives.

    2 wrongs don't make a right. This was wrong, and your reply is "politicians" are wrong, too? Brilliant.
    Post edited by Best of Times on
  • he still stands
    he still stands Posts: 2,835
    I think it's interesting that we're talking about whether or not it was "legal" to release this information, rather than what the information revealed.

    What is revealed is that this country (and most of western civilization) claiming to be a "democracy" is a total farce. This country deals with foreign diplomacy by rewarding countries for agreeing or voting with us and punishing them by not doing so (with our $$$). Our leaders explicity control opinion in this country by blatantly lying about the reality of the situation. For example, there is a radical distortion of the reality of the situation when we assume that what middle east dictators want is the same as what PEOPLE in the middle east want.

    The reason for government secrecy is that the government protects itself FROM ITS OWN POPULATION.
    Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    Hmmm...well maybe when somebody actually uses the info that is leaking out of our government at a laughable rate to do the U.S. some actual harm, then we can put them in jail for 10 years.

    I say more power to Assange. The problem lies within, not without.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    know1 wrote:
    Hmmm...well maybe when somebody actually uses the info that is leaking out of our government at a laughable rate to do the U.S. some actual harm, then we can put them in jail for 10 years.

    I say more power to Assange. The problem lies within, not without.

    :clap:
  • Best of Times
    Best of Times Posts: 296
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    if manning is tried for treason and executed then scooter libby should be as well.


    Not even close, but.... whatever.
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,405
    Best of Times wrote:
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    if manning is tried for treason and executed then scooter libby should be as well.


    Not even close, but.... whatever.
    it is not a matter of degree. there are no degrees of treason, like "treason 1st degree" if you are gonna apply the law apply the law to everyone. why do you say not even close? a crime was committed by libby. novak published the name, same as assange and novak was not charged or convicted for writing the article. outing a cia agent blatantly is a crime. but you being so nonpartisan and all that must escape you. :D
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Best of Times
    Best of Times Posts: 296
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    Best of Times wrote:
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    if manning is tried for treason and executed then scooter libby should be as well.


    Not even close, but.... whatever.
    it is not a matter of degree. there are no degrees of treason, like "treason 1st degree" if you are gonna apply the law apply the law to everyone. why do you say not even close? a crime was committed by libby. novak published the name, same as assange and novak was not charged or convicted for writing the article. outing a cia agent blatantly is a crime. but you being so nonpartisan and all that must escape you. :D


    If its blatantly a crime, then Assange is guilty, right?
  • mikepegg44
    mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    Best of Times wrote:
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    if manning is tried for treason and executed then scooter libby should be as well.


    Not even close, but.... whatever.
    it is not a matter of degree. there are no degrees of treason, like "treason 1st degree" if you are gonna apply the law apply the law to everyone. why do you say not even close? a crime was committed by libby. novak published the name, same as assange and novak was not charged or convicted for writing the article. outing a cia agent blatantly is a crime. but you being so nonpartisan and all that must escape you. :D


    wasnt george bluth tried for slight treason?
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan

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