Jesus' Nativity and birth

musicismylife78
musicismylife78 Posts: 6,116
edited January 2011 in A Moving Train
so i'd rather not have this turn into a debate about whether a god or jesus existed. if thats your interest by all means start a new thread.

what i want to discuss is just several things that intriigue me:

1. mary and joseph ride to Bethlehem and try to find a place to stay, to give birth to jesus, but there was no room at the inn. This was 2000 years ago, all i can imagine is the current version of an inn or hotel. What exactly did hotels look like 2,000 years ago? Were there like 2 rooms per hotels total?

2. Why is Jesus's birth always at night? I assume part of it refers to the magi coming to visit jesus and doing so because they saw the star of bethlehem, but that assumes two things, they saw the star at night and tracked it down, found jesus in the manger that very night. Why is the birth always at night?

As its been the basis of christmas my entire life and of christmas for centuries now, Jesus Birth and nativity is fascinating to me.
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  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    musicismylife78 wrote:
    What exactly did hotels look like 2,000 years ago? Were there like 2 rooms per hotels total?

    Just picture a Holiday Inn without the t.v, Air Con, and a mini bar.
    musicismylife78 wrote:
    2. Why is Jesus's birth always at night? I assume part of it refers to the magi coming to visit jesus and doing so because they saw the star of bethlehem, but that assumes two things, they saw the star at night and tracked it down, found jesus in the manger that very night.

    Maybe they magically summoned up a few pairs of Nike Jordans to speed them on their way? Which begs the quesion: why didn't they summon up a Ferrari Testarossa?
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    musicismylife78 wrote:
    so i'd rather not have this turn into a debate about whether a god or jesus existed. if thats your interest by all means start a new thread.

    what i want to discuss is just several things that intriigue me:

    1. mary and joseph ride to Bethlehem and try to find a place to stay, to give birth to jesus, but there was no room at the inn. This was 2000 years ago, all i can imagine is the current version of an inn or hotel. What exactly did hotels look like 2,000 years ago? Were there like 2 rooms per hotels total?

    2. Why is Jesus's birth always at night? I assume part of it refers to the magi coming to visit jesus and doing so because they saw the star of bethlehem, but that assumes two things, they saw the star at night and tracked it down, found jesus in the manger that very night. Why is the birth always at night?

    As its been the basis of christmas my entire life and of christmas for centuries now, Jesus Birth and nativity is fascinating to me.

    1. i dont know what inns were like 2000 years ago in that neck of the woods but i do know the reason mary and joseph had such trouble finding a room was cause they were obliged to travel into town to take part in a census, as were everyone else.. hence no room at the inn. im sure a 9 months pregnant woman would have preferred to stay close to home but thse darn romans and their rules.

    2. believe it or not some babies are born at night.... me included.
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  • OutOfBreath
    OutOfBreath Posts: 1,804
    1. Actually, it does sound rather weird that you have to go to another city than your own in order to be "censused", and in that time and age it sounds even weirder that if they really had to go to another city because of their relations being from there, that their relations didn't take them in. Most likely a device to put Jesus in the correct bloodline (David's) even though he came from another part of the country.

    As for 2, it's traditional, and probably because it connects with a mythical backdrop. Also, I think it says in some place that it was night. (edit: Luke 2:8 explicitly says "at night")

    As for the story of Jesus, the part of his origin and birth is among the dodgiest for truth factor. The gospels employ a lot of older myths and symbolism in order to show without a doubt humble beginnings (but royal blood, as befits a king), and connect to other mythical standard elements of the time.

    Peace
    Dan
    "YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death

    "Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    OutOfBreath wrote:
    1. Actually, it does sound rather weird that you have to go to another city than your own in order to be "censused", and in that time and age it sounds even weirder that if they really had to go to another city because of their relations being from there, that their relations didn't take them in. Most likely a device to put Jesus in the correct bloodline (David's) even though he came from another part of the country.

    As for 2, it's traditional, and probably because it connects with a mythical backdrop. Also, I think it says in some place that it was night. (edit: Luke 2:8 explicitly says "at night")

    As for the story of Jesus, the part of his origin and birth is among the dodgiest for truth factor. The gospels employ a lot of older myths and symbolism in order to show without a doubt humble beginnings (but royal blood, as befits a king), and connect to other mythical standard elements of the time.

    Peace
    Dan


    well of course it sounds weird... not much about jesus makes sense, let alone sound logical. thats why they call it faith. ;) 8-)
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • wolfamongwolves
    wolfamongwolves Posts: 2,414
    OutOfBreath wrote:
    1. Actually, it does sound rather weird that you have to go to another city than your own in order to be "censused"... Most likely a device to put Jesus in the correct bloodline (David's) even though he came from another part of the country.
    That's exactly the point I was going to make. There is historical evidence of a census, but none of people having to travel. What a logistical nightmare that would have been!

    There are a lot of biblical scholars who accept that notion of a plot device to illustrate a prophecy being fulfilled. Problem is, that then undermines the reliability of all so-called prophesies in the bible.

    As to what inns were like, I reckon not much different from what you'd expect - a house with rooms for rent. Anyway, you might find this link interesting http://theologicallyspeaking.com/2009/1 ... was-jesus/

    I'm not sure I understand the point of the 2nd question. Why is it relevant either way? And why would the Magi have to follow the star in one night? They were astrologers. I think astrologers can manage to find the same stars night after night, otherwise it would be a rather frustrating occupation.
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    96: Cork, Dublin
    00: Dublin
    06: London, Dublin
    07: London, Copenhagen, Nijmegen
    09: Manchester, London
    10: Dublin, Belfast, London & Berlin
    11: San José
    12: Isle of Wight, Copenhagen, Ed in Manchester & London x2
  • Electric_Delta
    Electric_Delta Posts: 977
    As a side note, many Bible scholars believe Jesus was born in June or July, given the physical and astronomical references.
    Bristow, VA (5/13/10)
  • arq
    arq Posts: 8,101
    musicismylife78 wrote:
    1. mary and joseph ride to Bethlehem and try to find a place to stay, to give birth to jesus, but there was no room at the inn. This was 2000 years ago, all i can imagine is the current version of an inn or hotel. What exactly did hotels look like 2,000 years ago? Were there like 2 rooms per hotels total?
    Imagine

    2. Why is Jesus's birth always at night? I assume part of it refers to the magi coming to visit jesus and doing so because they saw the star of bethlehem, but that assumes two things, they saw the star at night and tracked it down, found jesus in the manger that very night. Why is the birth always at night?

    1.-Imagine the most rural place in the middle east were the houses have no water, electricity, dirt floors and mud walls, the hotels must have been relatively large houses renting rooms for the travelers to spend the night, but without changing the beds or cleaning after them.

    2.-It was always at night just for dramatic purposes, can you imagine something like
    "...they arrive safe and sound at noon, they found a big room with lots of space and a woman to help Mary with the delivery..." not as fun, isn't?
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  • mysticweed
    mysticweed Posts: 3,710
    Electric_Delta wrote:
    As a side note, many Bible scholars believe Jesus was born in June or July, given the physical and astronomical references.

    i have heard that
    and he wasn't born in year 1
    more like 4 BC
    so
    Jesus was born 4 years before, well, christ
    which is now current era
    o well whatever
    never
    mind
    fuck 'em if they can't take a joke

    "what a long, strange trip it's been"
  • wolfamongwolves
    wolfamongwolves Posts: 2,414
    dickweed wrote:
    Jesus was born 4 years before, well, christ
    which is now current era
    I think it's "common" era
    93: Slane
    96: Cork, Dublin
    00: Dublin
    06: London, Dublin
    07: London, Copenhagen, Nijmegen
    09: Manchester, London
    10: Dublin, Belfast, London & Berlin
    11: San José
    12: Isle of Wight, Copenhagen, Ed in Manchester & London x2
  • mysticweed
    mysticweed Posts: 3,710
    wolfamongwolves wrote:
    dickweed wrote:
    Jesus was born 4 years before, well, christ
    which is now current era
    I think it's "common" era

    damn
    thanks
    (this error shows how very much i care)
    but unlike others i do not mind being corrected
    at one time i knew that common era thing
    fuck 'em if they can't take a joke

    "what a long, strange trip it's been"
  • Lizard
    Lizard So Cal Posts: 12,091
    Just happened to watch a show on this the other day--think it was on National Geographic. Of course, a lot of the words were translated wrong from Greek (I believe) but what they did say is that most people had their animals in the same dwelling with them and they stayed on the bottom floor and the people slept above them so if there was no room at someone's house, then Mary probably had to stay down with the animals, hence Jesus was "born in a manger". Again--some translation issues with the word Inn

    It was an interesting show.
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  • keeponrockin
    keeponrockin Posts: 7,446
    Electric_Delta wrote:
    As a side note, many Bible scholars believe Jesus was born in June or July, given the physical and astronomical references.
    But they celebrate Christmas when they do so it would be more palatable to the Pagans they were trying to convert.
    Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
  • Godfather.
    Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    keeponrockin wrote:
    Electric_Delta wrote:
    As a side note, many Bible scholars believe Jesus was born in June or July, given the physical and astronomical references.
    But they celebrate Christmas when they do so it would be more palatable to the Pagans they were trying to convert.

    Really ?are sure about thats why the 25th od December choosen ?

    Godfather.
  • Jeanwah
    Jeanwah Posts: 6,363
    Godfather. wrote:
    keeponrockin wrote:
    Electric_Delta wrote:
    As a side note, many Bible scholars believe Jesus was born in June or July, given the physical and astronomical references.
    But they celebrate Christmas when they do so it would be more palatable to the Pagans they were trying to convert.

    Really ?are sure about thats why the 25th od December choosen ?

    Godfather.

    I believe they chose late December because of winter solstice, which is the big Pagan holiday.
  • Godfather.
    Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    WOW!
    http://www.doityourself.com/stry/why-is ... -on-dec-25


    Godfather.
  • Ledbetterdays
    Ledbetterdays Round Rock, Texas Posts: 556
    It is true. Most of the traditions of Christmas are Pagan traditions. Twelve Days of Christmas, Yule Log, Christmas Tree, were all tied to a winter celebration.

    Godfather. wrote:
    keeponrockin wrote:
    Electric_Delta wrote:
    As a side note, many Bible scholars believe Jesus was born in June or July, given the physical and astronomical references.
    But they celebrate Christmas when they do so it would be more palatable to the Pagans they were trying to convert.

    Really ?are sure about thats why the 25th od December choosen ?

    Godfather.
    Touring Fan since 1996
  • eyedclaar
    eyedclaar Posts: 6,980
    You should see my nativity set. Bet you didn't know there were dinosaurs and unicorns witnessing the birth...
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  • mysticweed
    mysticweed Posts: 3,710
    eyedclaar wrote:
    You should see my nativity set. Bet you didn't know there were dinosaurs and unicorns witnessing the birth...

    and the three wise bears
    fuck 'em if they can't take a joke

    "what a long, strange trip it's been"
  • eyedclaar
    eyedclaar Posts: 6,980
    dickweed wrote:
    eyedclaar wrote:
    You should see my nativity set. Bet you didn't know there were dinosaurs and unicorns witnessing the birth...

    and the three wise bears

    One said this savior is too small, the other said this savior is too big, and third bear shoved them both aside and ate that little bundle of joy.
    Idaho's Premier Outdoor Writer

    Please Support My Writing Habit By Purchasing A Book:

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  • mysticweed
    mysticweed Posts: 3,710
    eyedclaar wrote:
    dickweed wrote:
    eyedclaar wrote:
    You should see my nativity set. Bet you didn't know there were dinosaurs and unicorns witnessing the birth...

    and the three wise bears

    One said this savior is too small, the other said this savior is too big, and third bear shoved them both aside and ate that little bundle of joy.


    you are just not right
    not wrapped real tight
    jesus jokes at christmas
    will get you coal and rocks
    from satan i mean santa
    on christmas eve night
    :lol:
    fuck 'em if they can't take a joke

    "what a long, strange trip it's been"

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