For those blindly in love with the U.N

catefrances · November 2010

Byrnzie wrote:

Sludge Factory wrote:

World War II didn't occur because there was no UN

That's not what I said. The comment I responded to claimed the world got along just fine before the U.N, which clearly was horseshit. Would things have been different if the U.N had been around before 1939 and if it had been allowed to fucnction as was designed to do without a handful of countries abusing their power of automatic veto? Who knows? Maybe.

i think WW2 wouldve happened regardless. afterall whod want to be interferring in a country's internal affairs and screwing with their sovereignty?

Sludge Factory · November 2010

Byrnzie wrote:

Sludge Factory wrote:

World War II didn't occur because there was no UN

That's not what I said. The comment I responded to claimed the world got along just fine before the U.N, which clearly was horseshit. Would things have been different if the U.N had been around before 1939 and if it had been allowed to fucnction as was designed to do without a handful of countries abusing their power of automatic veto? Who knows? Maybe.

You may not have outright said it, but there was an underlying implication in your comment. Which I interpreted to mean that you felt things would have been different if there was a UN before 1939.

Byrnzie · November 2010

Sludge Factory wrote:

there was an underlying implication in your comment. Which I interpreted to mean that you felt things would have been different if there was a UN before 1939.

Maybe it would have been.

Commy · November 2010

you have states, which are members of a democratic group, where decisions are made concerning everyone.

in principle the UN is the people of the world coming together to make decisions about the world, to prevent war and stupid things.

in practice, because members are unwilling to cede sovereignty, when the UN disagrees with a few of the more powerful members, they can simply ignore or veto, as was the case with Russia and the US for decades, including the famous resolution calling on all states to "obey international law", which the US vetoed to serve its interests in south america and to allow its ally (Israel) to continue its racism and land grab.

in principle the UN is a very much needed government, its literally the world coming together to make decisions. its diplomacy instead of war. its needed, and if members would abide by its rulings so many stupid and cruel and inhumane things could have been avoided, could still be avoided.

Byrnzie · November 2010

Noam Chomsky speech - Distorted Morality - http://www.torrentz.com/80741d6bd91bbf9 ... d554ef552f - in which he mentions the fact that the U.S and Israel both voted against a U.N resolution condemning international terrorism in 1987. The U.S then used it's veto and blocked the resolution. The reasons given for their negative votes were that the following paragraphs were unacceptable to them...

http://www.un.org/documents/ga/res/42/a42r159.htm
General Assembly
94th plenary meeting - 7 December 1987

8. Also urges all States, unilaterally and in co-operation with other States, as well as relevant United Nations organs, to contribute to the progressive elimination of the causes underlying international terrorism and
to pay special attention to all situations, including colonialism, racism and situations involving mass and flagrant violations of human rights and fundamental freedoms and those involving alien domination and occupation, that may give rise to international terrorism and may endanger international peace and security;

14. Considers that nothing in the present resolution could in any way prejudice the right to self-determination, freedom and independence, as derived from the Charter of the United Nations, of peoples forcibly deprived of that right referred to in the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations, particularly peoples under colonial and racist regimes and foreign occupation or other forms of colonial domination, nor, in accordance with the principles of the Charter and in conformity with the above-mentioned Declaration, the right of these peoples to struggle to this end and to seek and receive support;

At the time of this resolution the ANC was regarded by the U.S as a terrorist organization - hence, the following phrase was seen by the U.S as problematic..

'..peoples under colonial and racist regimes..'

..and hence why the following U.N resolutions were all vetoed by the U.S..

1979 Calls for an end to all military and nuclear collaboration with the apartheid South Africa.
1979 Strengthens the arms embargo against South Africa.
1979 Offers assistance to all the oppressed people of South Africa and their liberation movement
1981 Condemns South Africa for attacks on neighbouring states, condemns apartheid and attempts to strengthen sanctions. 7 resolutions.
1981 Condemns an attempted coup by South Africa on the Seychelles.
1983 Resolutions about apartheid, nuclear arms, economics, and international law. 15 resolutions.
1984 Condemns support of South Africa in its Namibian and other policies.
1984 International action to eliminate apartheid.
1984 Resolutions about apartheid, nuclear arms, economics, and international law. 18 resolutions.
1986 Calls on all governments (including the USA) to observe international law.
1986 Imposes economic and military sanctions against South Africa.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.inf ... le2000.htm

Also, the phrase '..and foreign occupation or other forms of colonial
domination...' was understood by everybody to refer to the Israeli occupation of the West bank and Gaza. And so the resolution condemning terrorism was vetoed by the U.S because it would have interfered with U.S terrorist activities in Latin America and it's unconditional military, economic, and diplomatic support for Israeli terrorism in the West Bank and Gaza.

The resolution:
153 - 2, with one abstention (Honduras)

For those blindly in love with the U.N

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