Saying (God) Bless You: I don't do it

redrock · October 2010

FiveB247x wrote:

Ok but here's the point, why must anyone emphasize what benefits them directly (such as praying) to somehow bring relief, sympathy or similar on another person who may not think or believe the same? It's no different from a Christian telling a Muslim that Jesus loves him and is watching out for them... it's merely displaced belief and thought in a centric, selfish manner, even if meant in a nice way or gesture. Why not just say something generic that doesn't incorporate a personal thought or belief compared to extending it to another? In my opinion, part of it is laziness that people assume everyone is like them, a lack of diversity that people think no one is different, or selfish to think that what you do should be acknowledge as ok by others. It's just about better judgment in many respects.. it's not just the sentiment, it's also how you say and go about things that people recognize in life. Just because some find legitimacy or comfort in things like prayer, doesn't mean others can relate, and if someone is really trying to go out of their way to pay some respects or offer a sign of sympathy, why do it on your own terms compared to the person who you're relaying the message too? It's backwards logic and rational.

scb wrote:

I disagree with this part. Saying you'll pray for someone else does not impose your beliefs onto them or presume that that share your faith. Praying for someone is nothing more than you acting in accordance with your own beliefs. It only imposes your beliefs on others if you ask them to pray - just as they are imposing their beliefs on you if they think you shouldn't pray just because they disagree with your beliefs.

I agree with scb. When my husband was between life and death for weeks, I had the 'god brigade' (as my very practicing catholic friend called her church), muslims, jews, sikhs praying for my husband. He also had wicca spells and healing hands. No one asked me to believe in their prayers (and they know I don't) but what is important is that THEY believed it could help. Even my atheist friends were wishing for a miracle (which, by definition is also deemed to be an act of god or supernatural force). Comfort didn't come from prayers but from the fact that my friends did what they felt was the most powerful thing they could. My strength came from theirs. Naturally prayer was not the only comfort they offered.

My husband is alive and not doing too bad. 'Science' estimated he would either be dead or a vegetable/ severely disabled and it was a miracle he is as he is (what the neurosuregon said!). So maybe after all prayers did help seeing science and logic 'decided' he was a goner!

But we digress from the thread....

Eilian · October 2010

Paul David wrote:

read my original post again. I think you'll find you are acting like a child. I in no way shape or form said anything to bring religion into a negative light (however, you're doing a damn fine job of bringing yourself into negative status). I simply asked a simple question: "do you say (god) bless you when someone sneezes, I don't, it kinda makes me uncomfortable, am I nuts?".

Oops! I mentioned the word God and I'm not religious! I must be anti-religion then, right?

:roll:

You are nuts! The whole concept is mental!

If I were to say 'bless you' when you sneezed, I'd make you feel uncomfortable. This in mind i'm not shocked to see you consider me "doing a damn fine job of bringing (myself) into negative status" for completely disagreeing with you.

Don't be facetious; of course you can mention God without being anti-religion, however your misplaced discomfort constitutes negativity and such negativity was only ever going to tease more, similarly, irrationally negative comments out of the woodwork,...have a browse back through and see what I mean.

It's true, I can be childish. I suggest though, that your issues with non-commital pleasantries may not be those of a mature person either.

If I'm wrong, I'm sorry, but the whole thread pangs to me of a subtle excuse to canvas a bit of recreational prejudice,...but if completely accidental, surely you can see how that evolution was inevitable?

know1 · October 2010

Paul David wrote:

and by the way, the word "bless" has religious connotations to it, too, not just "God".

Oh the horror of it!!

If people want to look for ways that they are being persecuted by religion, they WILL find them....regardless if they're really there.

dunkman · October 2010

Paul David wrote:

I know it sounds strange, but I've always had a problem saying this to someone after they sneeze. I guess, being agnostic, that's where it stems from. It kinda makes me uncomfortable blessing someone.

Anyone else have this (possiby) odd tendency?

i hate it... its a social convention thing that i just cant do.. i never say it to others, i hate it when people say it to me...

one guy in the office says it after anyone sneezes... 11 people in this room... come december its all the fucker ever says... he even says it after people do that repeat sneeze thing... like me after I pull out a nose hair... i know i'm going to sneeze about 8 or 9 times after that... there is no need for him to say it!!!

twisted thoughts · October 2010

Paul David wrote:

not sure if your second paragraph was directed at me or not, but let me just say I don't get MAD when someone says it to me. In fact, I'm very polite when they do and I always say "thanks". I just said it makes me uncomfortable.

I'd love it if I sneezed and someone yelled out "screw you, germy!".

twisted thoughts wrote:

this thread took a disastrous turn...

i appreciate sarcasm Mr. David...in fact, i practice it daily...
i dont understand y anyone would get mad for someone saying it to them, just because they dont say it to others...thats just silly...people say stupid shit all the time...having someone say "bless you" to you is the least of our worries.
that being said...
maybe i'll start saying, "screw you"
as in...screw you for infecting me with your germs

was not directed at you...was just posting my thoughts on people who posted the get mad when someone says it to them....not everyone in the world can know your faith/religion/beliefs....just appreciate the kindness

now, screw you!!

Hugh Freaking Dillon · October 2010

I'm not saying you brought negativity on yourself for disagreeing with me, I am open to mature debate. What I don't take lightly is someone attacking me for supposedly fishing for an anti-religion sentiment, which I was not. My wife is religious, all of her family, my brother and his family are born agains, I respect everyone's faith.

You call it "misplaced discomfort". Who the hell are you to say it's misplaced? My emotions and reactions are just as relevant as anyone else's. Look at several of the posters in this thread, they share my same sentiment, which I honestly did not expect.

I did NOT expect this thread to take the turn that it did. If it offends you, then, well, then take it up with what others are saying, not that I started it. I honestly thought I'd get a bunch of people telling me I'm nuts (much as you did) and rolling eyes and such. Nothing more.

Your ultra-sensitivity with regards to your faith is obviously your cross to bear, so to speak, not anyone else's.

CAN I SAY ONCE AGAIN: YOU ARE TAKING THIS WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY TOO SERIOUSLY. Take a step back and take this for what it is.

Eilian wrote:

Paul David wrote:

read my original post again. I think you'll find you are acting like a child. I in no way shape or form said anything to bring religion into a negative light (however, you're doing a damn fine job of bringing yourself into negative status). I simply asked a simple question: "do you say (god) bless you when someone sneezes, I don't, it kinda makes me uncomfortable, am I nuts?".

Oops! I mentioned the word God and I'm not religious! I must be anti-religion then, right?

:roll:

You are nuts! The whole concept is mental!

If I were to say 'bless you' when you sneezed, I'd make you feel uncomfortable. This in mind i'm not shocked to see you consider me "doing a damn fine job of bringing (myself) into negative status" for completely disagreeing with you.

Don't be facetious; of course you can mention God without being anti-religion, however your misplaced discomfort constitutes negativity and such negativity was only ever going to tease more, similarly, irrationally negative comments out of the woodwork,...have a browse back through and see what I mean.

It's true, I can be childish. I suggest though, that your issues with non-commital pleasantries may not be those of a mature person either.

If I'm wrong, I'm sorry, but the whole thread pangs to me of a subtle excuse to canvas a bit of recreational prejudice,...but if completely accidental, surely you can see how that evolution was inevitable?

Hugh Freaking Dillon · October 2010

who said they were being persecuted by religion?? look at the thread title. it's not "Don't bless me!", it's I, I, I don't do it!" and you know what? I actually feel guilty for not saying to people, like it's some social obligation and I'm being rude by not saying it.

After this ridiculousness? Not any more. I can tell you that. :?

know1 wrote:

Paul David wrote:

and by the way, the word "bless" has religious connotations to it, too, not just "God".

Oh the horror of it!!

If people want to look for ways that they are being persecuted by religion, they WILL find them....regardless if they're really there.

aerial · October 2010

I knew about intolerance of God (God’s)
However, being intolerant of good manners or politeness is just messed up....

Hugh Freaking Dillon · October 2010

I knew it was only a matter of time.

aerial wrote:

I knew about intolerance of God (God’s)
However, being intolerant of good manners or politeness is just messed up....

twisted thoughts · October 2010

Paul David wrote:

I knew it was only a matter of time.

aerial wrote:

I knew about intolerance of God (God’s)
However, being intolerant of good manners or politeness is just messed up....

tough crowd

Kat · October 2010

Sidnum wrote:

You're soooo good lookin

You had the same thought I had.

Additional info:

Bless you
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
For the song by Martha & the Vandellas, see Bless You (song).

Bless you, or God bless you, is a common English expression addressed to a person after they sneeze. The origin of the custom and its original purpose are unknown.
An alternative response to sneezing is the German and Yiddish word Gesundheit.
[edit]Origins and legends

Several possible origins are commonly given. The practice of blessing a sneeze, dating as far back as at least 77 AD, however, is far older than most specific explanations can account for.[1]

One explanation holds that the custom originally began as an actual blessing. Gregory I became Pope in 590 AD as an outbreak of the bubonic plague was reaching Rome. In hopes of fighting off the disease, he ordered unending prayer and parades of chanters through the streets. At the time, sneezing was thought to be an early symptom of the plague. The blessing ("God bless you!") became a common effort to halt the disease.[2]

A variant of the Pope Gregory I story places it with Pope Gregory VII, then tells the common story of "Ring Around the Rosey" being connected to the same plague.[3]

A legend holds that it was believed that the heart stops beating and the phrase "bless you" is meant to ensure the return of life or to encourage your heart to continue beating.[1][2][4]

Another version says that people used to believe that your soul can be thrown from your body when you sneeze,[1] that sneezing otherwise opened your body to invasion by the Devil[2] or evil spirits,[4] or that sneezing was your body's effort to force out an invading evil spirit.[1] Thus, "bless you" or "God bless you" is used as a sort of shield against evil.

Alternatively, it may be possible that the phrase began simply as a response for an event that was not well understood at the time.[1]

Another belief is that people used to see sneezing as a sign that God would answer your prayers[3] or an omen of good fortune or good luck.[1] In this case, "Bless you" would be in recognition of that luck.

Tibetan Buddhists believe a sneeze (like meditation, falling asleep, preparing to die) can provide a moment of "clear consciousness," when people are opened to greater understanding.[5]

dimitrispearljam · October 2010

we say geitses..means have health..
and we say a 4 number for see who is thinking of you

Hugh Freaking Dillon · October 2010

so what do you say, Kat? "you're banned!"?

Kat wrote:

Sidnum wrote:

You're soooo good lookin

You had the same thought I had.

Additional info:

Bless you
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
For the song by Martha & the Vandellas, see Bless You (song).

Bless you, or God bless you, is a common English expression addressed to a person after they sneeze. The origin of the custom and its original purpose are unknown.
An alternative response to sneezing is the German and Yiddish word Gesundheit.
[edit]Origins and legends

Several possible origins are commonly given. The practice of blessing a sneeze, dating as far back as at least 77 AD, however, is far older than most specific explanations can account for.[1]

One explanation holds that the custom originally began as an actual blessing. Gregory I became Pope in 590 AD as an outbreak of the bubonic plague was reaching Rome. In hopes of fighting off the disease, he ordered unending prayer and parades of chanters through the streets. At the time, sneezing was thought to be an early symptom of the plague. The blessing ("God bless you!") became a common effort to halt the disease.[2]

A variant of the Pope Gregory I story places it with Pope Gregory VII, then tells the common story of "Ring Around the Rosey" being connected to the same plague.[3]

A legend holds that it was believed that the heart stops beating and the phrase "bless you" is meant to ensure the return of life or to encourage your heart to continue beating.[1][2][4]

Another version says that people used to believe that your soul can be thrown from your body when you sneeze,[1] that sneezing otherwise opened your body to invasion by the Devil[2] or evil spirits,[4] or that sneezing was your body's effort to force out an invading evil spirit.[1] Thus, "bless you" or "God bless you" is used as a sort of shield against evil.

Alternatively, it may be possible that the phrase began simply as a response for an event that was not well understood at the time.[1]

Another belief is that people used to see sneezing as a sign that God would answer your prayers[3] or an omen of good fortune or good luck.[1] In this case, "Bless you" would be in recognition of that luck.

Tibetan Buddhists believe a sneeze (like meditation, falling asleep, preparing to die) can provide a moment of "clear consciousness," when people are opened to greater understanding.[5]

Eilian · October 2010

Paul David wrote:

Your ultra-sensitivity with regards to your faith is obviously your cross to bear, so to speak, not anyone else's.

CAN I SAY ONCE AGAIN: YOU ARE TAKING THIS WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY TOO SERIOUSLY. Take a step back and take this for what it is.

I'm pretty much faithLESS to tell you the truth and was trying to be diplomatic when I asked you if you could see how the topic may have evolved like it has. I promise I'm not yelling at my screen in a crimson rage, I'm just confused as to why something like 'Bless you' need ever be questioned because of the religious inference, and why that should ever make you uncomfortable.

I've taken a step back, and what it is, or at least what it became was a platform for accusations that such well-meant gestures are in fact a selfish means for people of faith to impose thier doctrines on others,....it is exactly what I feared it would be. Now I appreciate you may not have intended it to be so, and I have apologised for suggesting otherwise if it was accidental, but this is what it turned out to be.

Hugh Freaking Dillon · October 2010

I'll Coles Notes it for you why it makes me uncomfortable in both scenarios:

when I sneeze: someone says (God) Bless You, which to me is a religious custom, and it forces me through social obligation to say thank you to the person for doing something for me that I don't believe in

when someone else sneezes: they expect me to bless them, or I feel they do, which then causes me a little (albeit: minute) uncomfortability because I then feel as though they might think I'm a rude sunuvabitch

now, whether someone else takes the saying literally or if they don't find it to be religious is moot. I DO. And I'm not religious. When I was religious, I would also take offense to people wearing crosses around their necks and such for nothing other than cosmetics. My best friend didn't believe in God, and I kind of freaked on him for wearing a cross around his neck because he "liked it". It offended me as a Christian.

I have never once been rude and told someone I didn't want to bless them, nor have I ever said to anyone that I would appreciate if they kept their blessing to themselves. I am not offended, as I know most people say it out of nothing more than polite habit, like "thank you" or "you're welcome". We are programmed as kids to do so. I am not anti-god or anti-religion, I just simply don't like it. End of story.

Eilian wrote:

I'm just confused as to why something like 'Bless you' need ever be questioned because of the religious inference, and why that should ever make you uncomfortable.

aerial · October 2010

Paul David wrote:

I'll Coles Notes it for you why it makes me uncomfortable in both scenarios:

when I sneeze: someone says (God) Bless You, which to me is a religious custom, and it forces me through social obligation to say thank you to the person for doing something for me that I don't believe in

when someone else sneezes: they expect me to bless them, or I feel they do, which then causes me a little (albeit: minute) uncomfortability because I then feel as though they might think I'm a rude sunuvabitch

now, whether someone else takes the saying literally or if they don't find it to be religious is moot. I DO. And I'm not religious. When I was religious, I would also take offense to people wearing crosses around their necks and such for nothing other than cosmetics. My best friend didn't believe in God, and I kind of freaked on him for wearing a cross around his neck because he "liked it". It offended me as a Christian.

I have never once been rude and told someone I didn't want to bless them, nor have I ever said to anyone that I would appreciate if they kept their blessing to themselves. I am not offended, as I know most people say it out of nothing more than polite habit, like "thank you" or "you're welcome". We are programmed as kids to do so. I am not anti-god or anti-religion, I just simply don't like it. End of story.

Eilian wrote:

I'm just confused as to why something like 'Bless you' need ever be questioned because of the religious inference, and why that should ever make you uncomfortable.

So it has nothing to do with religion…..How do you feel about the other things we are taught ( programmed) as children…like Thank you, Please, Excuse me, or good manners in general?

know1 · October 2010

Eilian wrote:

I'm just confused as to why something like 'Bless you' need ever be questioned because of the religious inference, and why that should ever make you uncomfortable.

Amen!

Oops!

Hugh Freaking Dillon · October 2010

oh, aerial. last I checked, those below were not historically linked to God. :roll:

aerial wrote:

So it has nothing to do with religion…..How do you feel about the other things we are taught ( programmed) as children…like Thank you, Please, Excuse me, or good manners in general?

_ · October 2010

FiveB247x wrote:

Ok but here's the point, why must anyone emphasize what benefits them directly (such as praying) to somehow bring relief, sympathy or similar on another person who may not think or believe the same? It's no different from a Christian telling a Muslim that Jesus loves him and is watching out for them... it's merely displaced belief and thought in a centric, selfish manner, even if meant in a nice way or gesture. Why not just say something generic that doesn't incorporate a personal thought or belief compared to extending it to another? In my opinion, part of it is laziness that people assume everyone is like them, a lack of diversity that people think no one is different, or selfish to think that what you do should be acknowledge as ok by others. It's just about better judgment in many respects.. it's not just the sentiment, it's also how you say and go about things that people recognize in life. Just because some find legitimacy or comfort in things like prayer, doesn't mean others can relate, and if someone is really trying to go out of their way to pay some respects or offer a sign of sympathy, why do it on your own terms compared to the person who you're relaying the message too? It's backwards logic and rational.

scb wrote:

I disagree with this part. Saying you'll pray for someone else does not impose your beliefs onto them or presume that that share your faith. Praying for someone is nothing more than you acting in accordance with your own beliefs. It only imposes your beliefs on others if you ask them to pray - just as they are imposing their beliefs on you if they think you shouldn't pray just because they disagree with your beliefs.

I completely disagree and think that your attitude is the centrist, selfish one. Let's say I believe in God and praying and you don't. The way I express concern or put good vibes out into the world or wish people well is to pray for them. That's ME living MY life in accordance with MY beliefs. You don't have to believe in God or prayer for me to pray for you and my praying for you in no way assumes that you do, puts my beliefs as central, or imposes those beliefs onto you. I am not asking you to believe what I believe; I'm merely telling you the manner in which I send people good vibes. For you to insist that my manner of sending good vibes is congruent with your own is not a neutral position, but rather you imposing your beliefs onto me. What is neutral is for me to live my life in my way and you to live your life in yours. As long as I'm not telling you pray or believe what I believe, there shouldn't be a problem. Your assumption that people living their own lives according to their own beliefs presuppose that others share their beliefs and is therefore centric and selfish is mistaken. My praying for you does not in any way assume that you are like me.

And I don't think this is analogous to a Christian telling a Muslim that Jesus loves him and is watching out for him. If this belief is stated as absolute fact instead of as a belief, that does disregard the beliefs of others. But telling someone what you, personally, plan to do on your own (pray) is not the same as stating your beliefs as absolute fact.

ETA: People often pray for other people who they care about and are worried about. They would like to be able to do something for their loved one but they can't - all they can do is pray. If praying helps alleviate their sense of helplessness to protect the people they love, I don't think anyone has a right to try to take that away from them.

Eilian · October 2010

Paul David wrote:

I'll Coles Notes it for you why it makes me uncomfortable in both scenarios:

when I sneeze: someone says (God) Bless You, which to me is a religious custom, and it forces me through social obligation to say thank you to the person for doing something for me that I don't believe in

when someone else sneezes: they expect me to bless them, or I feel they do, which then causes me a little (albeit: minute) uncomfortability because I then feel as though they might think I'm a rude sunuvabitch

now, whether someone else takes the saying literally or if they don't find it to be religious is moot. I DO. And I'm not religious. When I was religious, I would also take offense to people wearing crosses around their necks and such for nothing other than cosmetics. My best friend didn't believe in God, and I kind of freaked on him for wearing a cross around his neck because he "liked it". It offended me as a Christian.

I have never once been rude and told someone I didn't want to bless them, nor have I ever said to anyone that I would appreciate if they kept their blessing to themselves. I am not offended, as I know most people say it out of nothing more than polite habit, like "thank you" or "you're welcome". We are programmed as kids to do so. I am not anti-god or anti-religion, I just simply don't like it. End of story.

The topic evoked exactly the kind of responses I thought it would and I dont think they're ever helpful,...I simply don't like them. End of story.

In other news,....SCB talks my kind of sense.

Saying (God) Bless You: I don't do it

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