I just watched the video of the court proceedings and I think Mr. Echols laywer made a compelling case for a new trial. It seems the judges of the Supreme court of Arkansas felt this same way since at one point one asked the DA "what would be the harm in granting a new hearing?"
I really feel like a shit after watching parts of Damien Echols sincere interview from prison. I'm pretty sure that any doubt I had about him at 18 is pretty much gone. Although he was smart enough back then to pull off a crime scene with little to no evidence, it is quite impossible for any human to pull that off I would think. After reading others responses and understanding more of the facts of the case, I really have come to the conclusion that the detectives and police really did a botched up job of the whole thing--along with the defense attorney leaving out testimonies to friends who talked to him on the phone and people who saw him at the time of the murders. I don't know anything about the bad juror that is now being brought to light. I'm so glad that they have more evidence and that their voices are finally getting heard by people that can actually help them. Good luck to them.
What admission by Damien is the state's lawyer talking about?
I just finished watching the archived video and I was wondering the same too. The only thing that comes to mind is the hearsay evidence that he had said, whilst at a softball game, that he did it and already has another victim picked out. If that's what they mean, that's a very shaky leg to stand on.
Now we wait.
Oh yeah - that's probably what they meant. Smart thinking! (I hadn't really thought of that as a confession, personally.)
Me neither. But there is a difference between 'confession' and 'admisiion'. The former is a complete acknowledgement of guilt whereas the latter is simply where an accused person admits to a fact which can then be used to incriminate him. In this case, since Damien's 'admission' would be deemed inculpatory, it is admissible evidence :ugeek:
if I keep holding out,.... will the light shine through?
0
coachchris
Kelowna, British Columbia, Canada Posts: 749
They are simply referring to the Miskelly admission. It was not to be allowed in the first trial for Damien and Jason whereas if they are retried, it would be admissable at that point. That's why Riordan said that they would "welcome" that confession as they have DNA evidence and solid alibis to refute said confession.
Don't forget that Riordan also said that 25% of the 280(ish) people that have since been released because of DNA sampling once confessed to the crime eventhough they were completely innocent.
Adolescence in essence is all about trust.
Leaving is for the answering machine.
Me neither. But there is a difference between 'confession' and 'admisiion'. The former is a complete acknowledgement of guilt whereas the latter is simply where an accused person admits to a fact which can then be used to incriminate him. In this case, since Damien's 'admission' would be deemed inculpatory, it is admissible evidence :ugeek:
Another good point! I don't remember whether the lawyer said "confession" or "admission," do you?
They are simply referring to the Miskelly admission.
They definitely spoke of a confession/admission by Damien as well. But I think sickofit is right that they are referring to what he supposedly said that the girls overheard.
Another good point! I don't remember whether the lawyer said "confession" or "admission," do you?
Confession, admission, lost blood evidence, satanistic heresy, hell if it happened today, the detectives and lawyers probably would have even tossed some doctored up photos into the mix. I don't think you should look at their usage of the words confession and admission so closely--obviously the police and detectives didn't look too closely at this case the first time around so who the heck are we to know what they meant, right?
And btw, couldn't some of the parents have sued the detectives and police for losing the blood evidence from Bojangles? If I was one of the parents I would sue them all the way!--even now.
Where ARE Damien's parents in all this. I had this thought today that we haven't heard from them.
Is he an orphan? :geek:
If my son was in jail for something he didn't do, I wouldn't be relying on celebrities to try to help him. I'd be knocking on doors myself!!
I hear ya. I would spend the rest of my life trying to get him out of there. no, he's not an orphan. In Paradise Lost I remember they interviewed his dad,mom, and sister. They were all 3 definitely defending him. They probably still are very active about it.
Me neither. But there is a difference between 'confession' and 'admisiion'. The former is a complete acknowledgement of guilt whereas the latter is simply where an accused person admits to a fact which can then be used to incriminate him. In this case, since Damien's 'admission' would be deemed inculpatory, it is admissible evidence :ugeek:
Another good point! I don't remember whether the lawyer said "confession" or "admission," do you?
They are simply referring to the Miskelly admission.
They definitely spoke of a confession/admission by Damien as well. But I think sickofit is right that they are referring to what he supposedly said that the girls overheard.
He kept on saying 'admission' and at one point he said "an admission from the defendant" (yes, I had to watch it again )...so that does not suggest he was referring to Jessie Miskelly's statements, which have always been referred to as 'confessions'. I wonder if he's referring to smthg completely different....hmm will have to check if there ever was a statement made by Damien - I've never come across it/mention of it.
if I keep holding out,.... will the light shine through?
Another good point! I don't remember whether the lawyer said "confession" or "admission," do you?
Confession, admission, lost blood evidence, satanistic heresy, hell if it happened today, the detectives and lawyers probably would have even tossed some doctored up photos into the mix. I don't think you should look at their usage of the words confession and admission so closely--obviously the police and detectives didn't look too closely at this case the first time around so who the heck are we to know what they meant, right?
Yeah, but semantics are pretty important in a court of law, which is what we were discussing.
And btw, couldn't some of the parents have sued the detectives and police for losing the blood evidence from Bojangles? If I was one of the parents I would sue them all the way!--even now.
He kept on saying 'admission' and at one point he said "an admission from the defendant" (yes, I had to watch it again )...so that does not suggest he was referring to Jessie Miskelly's statements, which have always been referred to as 'confessions'. I wonder if he's referring to smthg completely different....hmm will have to check if there ever was a statement made by Damien - I've never come across it/mention of it.
Thanks! Yeah, if he was referring to an admission we don't know about, I'd like to know. I have a feeling you were right the first time, but let us know if you find anything, please.
Where ARE Damien's parents in all this. I had this thought today that we haven't heard from them.
Is he an orphan? :geek:
If my son was in jail for something he didn't do, I wouldn't be relying on celebrities to try to help him. I'd be knocking on doors myself!!
I hear ya. I would spend the rest of my life trying to get him out of there. no, he's not an orphan. In Paradise Lost I remember they interviewed his dad,mom, and sister who all wore black also. They were all 3 definitely defending him. They probably still are very active about it, but there's only so much progress for truth that can be made in a small town.
I read somewhere that one of his dads (his adoptive one, I think) has died since he's been in prison. I don't know what's up with the other one. But I don't think his mom has remained silent or anything. I'm sure she must be working with the larger effort. What could she do on her own anyway? Just from having friends whose kids have been in jail/prison, I don't think there's really much the parents can do - especially without lots of money and/or power.
I was wondering about this the other day too though. I've only seen interviews with Damien's mom (I didn't remember his dad being in Paradise Lost), Jason's mom, and Jesse's dad (and step-mom, who said she'd disown him if he was convicted). Where are their other parents? Maybe they're around and part of the effort but just don't want to be part of the media circus about it? (It's interesting how a couple of documentaries can completely shape our view of the situation.)
The hearings the other day went well, I think there will be a new trial (or similiar) in the months/years to come and the WM3 will be freed soon thereafter. The supreme court of Arkansas looked as if they were leaning towards a new trial.
It's pretty simple to me. No DNA was found from the WM3 at the crime scene or on the bodies. Hair/DNA was found of Terry Hobbs in one of the boys shoelaces used to tie him up and his buddy he was seen with that day left hair/DNA on a tree stump at the crime scene. So it doesn't take a genius to figure out what really happened to the murdered boys, the problem now is that that this judicial system is so complicated and unclear.
It saddens me with all this new evidence and looking back at the old botched evidence and facts, there are still people trying their hardest to keep the WM3 in jail. Ridiculous.
About the parents of the WM3 mentioned in above post, the WM3 come from fucked up broken homes, and were all extremely poor. What can the parents possibly do that can help their children, that trained and intelligent defense attorneys can't do 1000X better, nothing. They are helpless. Besides all the death threats I am guessing the parents of the WM3 got around that time, there is really nothing they can do.
Where ARE Damien's parents in all this. I had this thought today that we haven't heard from them.
Is he an orphan? :geek:
If my son was in jail for something he didn't do, I wouldn't be relying on celebrities to try to help him. I'd be knocking on doors myself!!
I hear ya. I would spend the rest of my life trying to get him out of there. no, he's not an orphan. In Paradise Lost I remember they interviewed his dad,mom, and sister who all wore black also. They were all 3 definitely defending him. They probably still are very active about it, but there's only so much progress for truth that can be made in a small town.
I read somewhere that one of his dads (his adoptive one, I think) has died since he's been in prison. I don't know what's up with the other one. But I don't think his mom has remained silent or anything. I'm sure she must be working with the larger effort. What could she do on her own anyway? Just from having friends whose kids have been in jail/prison, I don't think there's really much the parents can do - especially without lots of money and/or power.
I was wondering about this the other day too though. I've only seen interviews with Damien's mom (I didn't remember his dad being in Paradise Lost), Jason's mom, and Jesse's dad (and step-mom, who said she'd disown him if he was convicted). Where are their other parents? Maybe they're around and part of the effort but just don't want to be part of the media circus about it? (It's interesting how a couple of documentaries can completely shape our view of the situation.)
You know what else I was wondering? Where are the other parents of the murdered boys? Two of the dads were stepfathers. Has anyone ever heard anything from or about the biological fathers?
if the parents of the victims don't think they did it ... that's gotta tell ya something ...
Some of them do and some of them don't though.
Interesting... I was just reading a story about Damien and the comments about it on the Anderson Cooper website. There's a comment that says it's from Todd Moore - Michael's dad:
September 29th, 2010 10:55 pm ET
Myself along with all of the other parents, except Mark Byers and Pam Hobbs, know that these men are guilty and were rightfully convicted by two separate juries. These convictions have been upheld time after time by the courts. It sounds as if all the parents believe these men are innocent and that is not true. The majority of the families have not changed our positions on these convictions despite a countless wave of so called experts that the defense has hired over these past 17 yrs.
My son was murdered by Echols and his friends and justice is being served by keeping the guilty in prison where they belong.
Okay, sorry to keep posting but I just learned something else interesting. I'm watching this documentary on Netflix watch instantly called After Innocence and it's about people who were convicted of crimes and then exonerated through DNA evidence. They just showed a clip from the Donahue show about DNA evidence exonerating people - and it was from 1993. I keep hearing, and had believed, that this technology wasn't available back when the WM3 were being tried, but apparently it was. :?
This is great documentary, by the way. Part of what they're talking about is people's journeys through the "justice" system to get exonerated once the DNA evidence comes back to not match the convicted. Right now they're interviewing a guy who has been proven innocent but they still won't release him from prison because they said he didn't go through the proper channels or something.
The confession that the state was referring to is apparently some girls heard Damien "admit" to the murders at a softball game. He says he didn't say it, but the girls say they either heard him say it or were told my someone else that he said it.
The DNA testing was not done at the time because the state dedicated no funds to it. The defense attorneys for indigent clients like the WM3 were paid $1/hr after things were all said and done. The only DNA testing that has ever occurred in this case came years later after public support of the case grew enough for the supporters to fund the DNA testing themselves. The state of Arkansas now gets federal funds to fund DNA testing because they passed the DNA statute a few years ago allowing for exonerations based on DNA findings. Riordan refers to this in his oral arguments. And as Riordan said in the oral argument, 25% of the people released by the DNA statute nationally had made false confessions (like the Misskelly confession).
I believe the Arkansas state supreme court is leaning towards a new hearing/trial, and after hearing the oral arguments, they will really look like a crooked court if they don't. It is clear that the world is watching their next move.
Apparently the guards in the prison ruined all Damien's writings, books and took his shoes. So if you would like to send him a book or write him you can go his wish list. http://wm3.org/WM3.
I sure hope a new trial is given.
Live Life love people, you never know what battle they may be facing..
Your worth has always been there...don't argue with those who see it.just accept you are valuable.
Apparently the guards in the prison ruined all Damien's writings, books and took his shoes. So if you would like to send him a book or write him you can go his wish list. http://wm3.org/WM3.
I sure hope a new trial is given.
That is some scary stuff. The fact that they went after his things and not after him probably means that they won't physically harm him, but, at the same time, the guards are the only people there with him. Really trying times for Damien.
Though it's not the same case, this article looks at a question that is strikingly similar to the one before the Arkansas State Supreme Court now: High Court Weighs Access To Inmate's DNA Evidence. I wonder if this Supreme Court ruling will have any impact on the WM3 case.
Comments
Thanks, watching the video right now.
Now 2-3wks of waiting......
Me neither. But there is a difference between 'confession' and 'admisiion'. The former is a complete acknowledgement of guilt whereas the latter is simply where an accused person admits to a fact which can then be used to incriminate him. In this case, since Damien's 'admission' would be deemed inculpatory, it is admissible evidence :ugeek:
Don't forget that Riordan also said that 25% of the 280(ish) people that have since been released because of DNA sampling once confessed to the crime eventhough they were completely innocent.
Leaving is for the answering machine.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39444933
Another good point! I don't remember whether the lawyer said "confession" or "admission," do you?
They definitely spoke of a confession/admission by Damien as well. But I think sickofit is right that they are referring to what he supposedly said that the girls overheard.
Some of them do and some of them don't though.
http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/09/30 ... 3%7C174707
Confession, admission, lost blood evidence, satanistic heresy, hell if it happened today, the detectives and lawyers probably would have even tossed some doctored up photos into the mix. I don't think you should look at their usage of the words confession and admission so closely--obviously the police and detectives didn't look too closely at this case the first time around so who the heck are we to know what they meant, right?
And btw, couldn't some of the parents have sued the detectives and police for losing the blood evidence from Bojangles? If I was one of the parents I would sue them all the way!--even now.
Is he an orphan? :geek:
If my son was in jail for something he didn't do, I wouldn't be relying on celebrities to try to help him. I'd be knocking on doors myself!!
I hear ya. I would spend the rest of my life trying to get him out of there. no, he's not an orphan. In Paradise Lost I remember they interviewed his dad,mom, and sister. They were all 3 definitely defending him. They probably still are very active about it.
He kept on saying 'admission' and at one point he said "an admission from the defendant" (yes, I had to watch it again
Yeah, but semantics are pretty important in a court of law, which is what we were discussing.
Good question. I wonder.
Thanks! Yeah, if he was referring to an admission we don't know about, I'd like to know. I have a feeling you were right the first time, but let us know if you find anything, please.
I read somewhere that one of his dads (his adoptive one, I think) has died since he's been in prison. I don't know what's up with the other one. But I don't think his mom has remained silent or anything. I'm sure she must be working with the larger effort. What could she do on her own anyway? Just from having friends whose kids have been in jail/prison, I don't think there's really much the parents can do - especially without lots of money and/or power.
I was wondering about this the other day too though. I've only seen interviews with Damien's mom (I didn't remember his dad being in Paradise Lost), Jason's mom, and Jesse's dad (and step-mom, who said she'd disown him if he was convicted). Where are their other parents? Maybe they're around and part of the effort but just don't want to be part of the media circus about it? (It's interesting how a couple of documentaries can completely shape our view of the situation.)
It's pretty simple to me. No DNA was found from the WM3 at the crime scene or on the bodies. Hair/DNA was found of Terry Hobbs in one of the boys shoelaces used to tie him up and his buddy he was seen with that day left hair/DNA on a tree stump at the crime scene. So it doesn't take a genius to figure out what really happened to the murdered boys, the problem now is that that this judicial system is so complicated and unclear.
It saddens me with all this new evidence and looking back at the old botched evidence and facts, there are still people trying their hardest to keep the WM3 in jail. Ridiculous.
About the parents of the WM3 mentioned in above post, the WM3 come from fucked up broken homes, and were all extremely poor. What can the parents possibly do that can help their children, that trained and intelligent defense attorneys can't do 1000X better, nothing. They are helpless. Besides all the death threats I am guessing the parents of the WM3 got around that time, there is really nothing they can do.
You know what else I was wondering? Where are the other parents of the murdered boys? Two of the dads were stepfathers. Has anyone ever heard anything from or about the biological fathers?
Robert Smith Auctions Off LPs to Raise Money for Death Row Inmate's Defense
Here's the link for the auction, which ends October 7th. Looks like some other people are auctioning stuff for the defense fund as well.
Interesting... I was just reading a story about Damien and the comments about it on the Anderson Cooper website. There's a comment that says it's from Todd Moore - Michael's dad:
This is great documentary, by the way. Part of what they're talking about is people's journeys through the "justice" system to get exonerated once the DNA evidence comes back to not match the convicted. Right now they're interviewing a guy who has been proven innocent but they still won't release him from prison because they said he didn't go through the proper channels or something.
The DNA testing was not done at the time because the state dedicated no funds to it. The defense attorneys for indigent clients like the WM3 were paid $1/hr after things were all said and done. The only DNA testing that has ever occurred in this case came years later after public support of the case grew enough for the supporters to fund the DNA testing themselves. The state of Arkansas now gets federal funds to fund DNA testing because they passed the DNA statute a few years ago allowing for exonerations based on DNA findings. Riordan refers to this in his oral arguments. And as Riordan said in the oral argument, 25% of the people released by the DNA statute nationally had made false confessions (like the Misskelly confession).
I believe the Arkansas state supreme court is leaning towards a new hearing/trial, and after hearing the oral arguments, they will really look like a crooked court if they don't. It is clear that the world is watching their next move.
What's wrong with the case of the West Memphis Three? Nearly everything.
By Mara Leveritt
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/famous/editorial-west-memphis-three/1-trying-to-remain-unbiased.html
Apparently the guards in the prison ruined all Damien's writings, books and took his shoes. So if you would like to send him a book or write him you can go his wish list. http://wm3.org/WM3.
I sure hope a new trial is given.
Your worth has always been there...don't argue with those who see it.just accept you are valuable.
That is some scary stuff. The fact that they went after his things and not after him probably means that they won't physically harm him, but, at the same time, the guards are the only people there with him. Really trying times for Damien.