Something to ponder: The Ideal Woman's Body
Comments
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scb wrote:South of Seattle wrote:
The second video I thought had more meaning than the first. The first one seemed a little pointless to me IMO and didn't have that much impact for me.scb wrote:
I was kind of agreeing with Lay down your arms, she is "closer" to the ideal body than the skinny anorexic girl in the video and the larger one that ended up shooting herself.
I think alot of the problem is with the BMI index. That thing is so far off. By that scale I'm considered obese. I would think anyone who has met or seen a picture would not consider me "obese"
I think the first video was just meant to demonstrate that the images we are constantly bombarded with are not accurate portrayals of reality. Maybe it was intended for a different audience.
i agree.. by the time those girls walking past the billboard saw that woman she was so different she coulda actually walked past them and they wouldnt even have recognised her.
as for the 2nd video...
.. it begins at home with positive support and constant vigilence. we should never allow our daughters, or sons for that matter, to feel she/he doesnt measure up to the myth. we should never allow them to even entertain the idea that they need to. nothing in this world is 'perfect' cause its not suppose to be. perfection is unattainable cause it doesnt exist so why demoralise or kill yourself trying. those peddling such perfection are flogging something for their good not ours.hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say0 -
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say0 -
South of Seattle wrote:Yeah this thread kind of went all over the place.
I think something we all can agree on is the media force feeds us their agenda no matter what it is "Political views, body image, Social class differences, race, etc . . " and we have to be careful on how we interpret these things.
And I think everyone is aware how bad this disease is in reality. But is this disease really caused by the pressures of media and society or is it just something inherent that these people have?
Well I'm not specifically thinking about anorexia & bulimia, if that's what you're referring to. With those - and I mean like, clinically diagnosable disorders, not just like people throw the words around - I think it's probably both media and something inherent. But I think sometimes there's a fine line between having one of these eating disorders just generally getting caught up in the idea that you have to uphold a certain body image at all cost, which I think IS all about socialization through media and other things.0 -
catefrances wrote:i agree.. by the time those girls walking past the billboard saw that woman she was so different she coulda actually walked past them and they wouldnt even have recognised her.
as for the 2nd video...
.. it begins at home with positive support and constant vigilence. we should never allow our daughters, or sons for that matter, to feel she/he doesnt measure up to the myth. we should never allow them to even entertain the idea that they need to. nothing in this world is 'perfect' cause its not suppose to be. perfection is unattainable cause it doesnt exist so why demoralise or kill yourself trying. those peddling such perfection are flogging something for their good not ours.
I totally agree with you. Unfortunately, I think parents often don't have as much power as they would like to think they do to combat all the media messages and peer/social reinforcement of those messages. Media is EVERYWHERE. It's inescapable, whether you read Cosmo or watch celebrity gossip shows or not. Consequently, the media spends much more time sending messages to kids than parents possibly could.
I also think parents often don't realize what messages they, themselves, are giving their kids. They tell them they're beautiful no matter what, but then participate in indoctrinating them to fit into cultural norms - if directly, at least by example. Let's face it - there are VERY few people out there who are completely refusing to participate in upholding the idea that women (and, to a lesser extent, men) should strive to achieve the cultural norm.
Plus, regardless of how great your parents are and how much you avoid the media, other people - in school, on message boards, at work, on the street, everywhere - ensure that the status quo is upheld. It's too bad they often can't recognize their role in maintaining the status quo or the power they have to change it. Instead they often just try to absolve themselves of any responsibility by blaming the media and parents, and the media blames parents and society, etc.0 -
South of Seattle wrote:And I think everyone is aware how bad this disease is in reality. But is this disease really caused by the pressures of media and society or is it just something inherent that these people have?
Yeah... while society's pressures can greatly influence people (especially in the vulnerable teenage years), I would think that there has to be some sort of inherent underlying factors. It's one thing to be obsessed with your weight/appearance, but it's something totally extreme to be all skin and bones and see a fat person in the mirror.My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln0 -
scb wrote:I'm sorry, but who said "most men"? The post I read referred to the media, and said the media is comprised of "mostly" men. That's totally different. Geez... why all the defensiveness around here?
How is the media mostly men? Like I mentioned in an earlier post, pretty much all of those fashion magazines like Vogue, Cosmo, Glamour, Etc have women running them as editor in chief. So if it is a women running the magazine and getting the final say as to what goes in them (and what goes on the cover), why aren't women in the media as much to blame as men (if not more).0 -
Kel Varnsen wrote:scb wrote:I'm sorry, but who said "most men"? The post I read referred to the media, and said the media is comprised of "mostly" men. That's totally different. Geez... why all the defensiveness around here?
How is the media mostly men? Like I mentioned in an earlier post, pretty much all of those fashion magazines like Vogue, Cosmo, Glamour, Etc have women running them as editor in chief. So if it is a women running the magazine and getting the final say as to what goes in them (and what goes on the cover), why aren't women in the media as much to blame as men (if not more).
because sex sells and one thing men and women have in common is the want and need for money, just jumped back into this topic so if repeted anything I apoligize.
Godfather.0 -
I get so tired of comments like:
"society teaches us..."
"the media forces us...."
"I was raised to believe..."
Those are such helpless statements that are really only copouts.
People have brains. People can make choices for themselves. People can choose to reject or embrace anything or everything they have been taught or exposed to. We do this all the time, people.The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.0 -
know1 wrote:I get so tired of comments like:
"society teaches us..."
"the media forces us...."
"I was raised to believe..."
Those are such helpless statements that are really only copouts.
People have brains. People can make choices for themselves. People can choose to reject or embrace anything or everything they have been taught or exposed to. We do this all the time, people.
soo ... if i decide to blow snot out of my nose without a kleenex right in front of you - you'd be ok with that?0 -
polaris_x wrote:know1 wrote:I get so tired of comments like:
"society teaches us..."
"the media forces us...."
"I was raised to believe..."
Those are such helpless statements that are really only copouts.
People have brains. People can make choices for themselves. People can choose to reject or embrace anything or everything they have been taught or exposed to. We do this all the time, people.
soo ... if i decide to blow snot out of my nose without a kleenex right in front of you - you'd be ok with that?
No - did I say that??? But your example does help demonstrate my point.
What I said is, you have the CHOICE to blow snot out of your nose or not. And you exercise that choice. Sure, someone taught you, or you learned on your own, that was wrong, but you can still choose whether you believe that or not and are going to follow it.The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.0 -
polaris_x wrote:know1 wrote:I get so tired of comments like:
"society teaches us..."
"the media forces us...."
"I was raised to believe..."
Those are such helpless statements that are really only copouts.
People have brains. People can make choices for themselves. People can choose to reject or embrace anything or everything they have been taught or exposed to. We do this all the time, people.
soo ... if i decide to blow snot out of my nose without a kleenex right in front of you - you'd be ok with that?
It's nice to be nice to the nice.0 -
know1 wrote:No - did I say that??? But your example does help demonstrate my point.
What I said is, you have the CHOICE to blow snot out of your nose or not. And you exercise that choice. Sure, someone taught you, or you learned on your own, that was wrong, but you can still choose whether you believe that or not and are going to follow it.
why do you say it is wrong?0 -
polaris_x wrote:know1 wrote:I get so tired of comments like:
"society teaches us..."
"the media forces us...."
"I was raised to believe..."
Those are such helpless statements that are really only copouts.
People have brains. People can make choices for themselves. People can choose to reject or embrace anything or everything they have been taught or exposed to. We do this all the time, people.
soo ... if i decide to blow snot out of my nose without a kleenex right in front of you - you'd be ok with that?
we call that blowing your nose farmer stile
this is great, too freakin funny I love it.
Godfather.0 -
polaris_x wrote:know1 wrote:No - did I say that??? But your example does help demonstrate my point.
What I said is, you have the CHOICE to blow snot out of your nose or not. And you exercise that choice. Sure, someone taught you, or you learned on your own, that was wrong, but you can still choose whether you believe that or not and are going to follow it.
why do you say it is wrong?
Because I don't like you doing it. It's something I've learned that I've chosen to agree with. Some people likely don't mind it that much. We all had a choice in that.
You are completely missing the point, though. This is maybe a better way to put it - people don't all act and believe in identical ways (man that would be boring). We all have choices based upon our experiences and what we've chosen to believe or follow and to say that society has control over us is a very defeatist attitude.The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.0 -
Is there a difference between the ideal associated with naturally ocurring women's bodies and those surgically made that way? For example, Pam Anderson was a really beautiful woman. However, now that she's been surgically altered, she doesn't even look biodegradable any more. I am wondering if what defines ideal beauty changes if it doesn't come naturally.It's nice to be nice to the nice.0
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know1 wrote:Because I don't like you doing it. It's something I've learned that I've chosen to agree with. Some people likely don't mind it that much. We all had a choice in that.
You are completely missing the point, though. This is maybe a better way to put it - people don't all act and believe in identical ways (man that would be boring). We all have choices based upon our experiences and what we've chosen to believe or follow and to say that society has control over us is a very defeatist attitude.
i think you are missing the point ...
give me one reason why you think it's wrong aside from you don't like it ... if you lived in china where everyone was doing this - do you think that you would honestly feel the same way!??
you can go on about how everyone has choices and to a certain degree i agree with you and commend that attitude but the truth is society has incredible pressures - some are easier to break free from while others are not ... you make it sound like its a simple choice people make when in fact - it's years of sociological evolution at play ...
the majority of our justice system is based on social conformity ... it is everywhere ...0 -
scb wrote:JonnyPistachio wrote:Yeah, "most men"!?
wtf is that?
I completely agree with you blackredyellow...
anorexia/bulimia is a terrible thing, but it is in the mind of the person who is suffering.
The only fix i see to the problem would be if everyone stopped buying the fashion magazines, stupid gossip shows, ect...
I'm sorry, but who said "most men"? The post I read referred to the media, and said the media is comprised of "mostly" men. That's totally different. Geez... why all the defensiveness around here?
The pressure in this society to "achieve" a random, socially constructed body image set forth in the media and on rock band forums is not unique to women with anorexia and bulimia or women who read fashion magazines and watch gossip shows. And this pressure is not just in the mind of the person who is suffering. It is very real and is expressed in very real ways in this society.
Really, you think the ONLY thing we can do about this problem is to stop buying fashion magazines and watching gossip shows? You don't think ANOTHER thing we can do about it would be to stop making comments like the first three male posts in this thread?
the original post said "mostly men", which is an awful blanket statement, i just mis-typed.
I certainly don't think that the mags and stupid shows are the ONLY thing, but it is a start to the problem. Like i said, the other problem is cultural/society. Parents need to educate their kids about morals and what are good qualities and healthy choices. People can be raised to feel more strongly about self esteem in different ways.
To stop making comments like the first three post is never going to happen and nor do i see anything wrong with it. on a side note --> Just a personal experience, my g/f right in front of me was drooling over some guy with a great body and soap opera hair just the other day. I did not care, and most guys wouldnt give two shits. He looked healty and I don't blame her for being attracted to him.
Those types of comments about how 'hot' a person is can come from either sex, it's just how the same sex responds to it that is very different.Pick up my debut novel here on amazon: Jonny Bails Floatin (in paperback) (also available on Kindle for $2.99)0 -
Maybe the OP was a video about suicide.
Did anyone ever consider that? NO.Post edited by BhagavadGita on0 -
BhagavadGita wrote:Maybe the OP was a video about suicide.
Did anyone ever consider that? NO.
It's always dicks, nuts and butt jokes on this serious forum.
Frankly I dislike posting in here because someone always comes along and fucks up your point.
Blow your brains out on here and I will be glad to serve you back what you give. Women are raped in so many ways. and unless you have a vagina. shut the hell up.
Except for SCB, this thread did exactly what i knew it would do. NOthing useful. Just opposition to a point very much missed.
p.s. the "woman" in the blue bathing suit looks like she pissed her pants. some day she will have to wear panty liners for bladder control, how sexy :?: will she be then?
Geez... dramatic much? The bold sentence could be about the most overdramatic thing that I've read on here (and that's saying a lot). If you didn't want to hear from men, then why post it on an open forum?
And just because people think differently than you, doesn't mean that it's "nothing useful". Very dismissive approach by you... If your point of view is formed, and nothing but affirmation will be considered useful, then why bother.
Sorry to be so harsh.
Yes, the video alluded to suicide, but your thread title, most of the posts, and the vast majority of the video was about womens bodies/image issues. People probably ignored the suicide aspect, not because it's irrelevant, but because it's universally viewed as a terrible thing (regardless of the reasons behind it). Those types of things get passed over here because there is really no debate about it.My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln0 -
BhagavadGita wrote:Maybe the OP was a video about suicide.
Did anyone ever consider that? NO.
It's always dicks, nuts and butt jokes on this serious forum.
Frankly I dislike posting in here because someone always comes along and fucks up your point.
Blow your brains out on here and I will be glad to serve you back what you give. Women are raped in so many ways. and unless you have a vagina. shut the hell up.
Except for SCB, this thread did exactly what i knew it would do. NOthing useful. Just opposition to a point very much missed.
p.s. the "woman" in the blue bathing suit looks like she pissed her pants. some day she will have to wear panty liners for bladder control, how sexy :?: will she be then?
well, the video was about anorexia AND suicide. Both really horrible issues. Most people are not joking. As far as the thread conversation, there were some useful points about how the media may be to blame, free will and losing the need to care how others judge you, and how women (and men) should only worry about being healthy. You make it sound like all the guys were tossing the issue in the trash heap... which I definitely don't think was the case.
I don't think anyone missed the point... but the thing that some of us were saying is that the woman in the bathing suit isn't anorexic and you apparently disagree with that. Its not a crime to be skinny and not all skinny people are anorexic.Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.0
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