Something to ponder: The Ideal Woman's Body

blackredyellow wrote:

I'm gonna stir up the hornets nest here, but I disagree that it's "mostly men" who ruined the female body image... Us guys will take what we can get... if no women looked like that blonde above, we wouldn't really care...

Here's an analogy for you... we like sports cars... we'll look at pictures of Ferrari's all day, but are perfectly happy driving our Toyota sedan or whatever we have. Just because we like to look at something, doesn't mean that only want that. I'd love to have a big house with 50 acres of land, but I'm happy with our 1500 sq/ft house and small lot in a decent neighborhood.

It's women who buy Cosmo and magazines like that who constantly compare themselves to the sick-thin models... it's mostly women who watch the E! Channel and the TMZ, People, celebrity gossip shows/magazines where these celebrities are shown and criticized (by other women) if they gained 1 pound or didn't get back to heroin-thin 3 weeks after having a baby.

When women get all dressed up and all made up, a lot of the time it's to impress their girlfriends.

Do some men do it? absolutely, but besides the small amount of completely shallow douchebags out there who women probably don't want to be with anyway (but oddly enough some women are attracted to), the rest of us really don't expect a 105 lb model or whatever.

Is there an emoticon for shaking one's head in disgust and disdain?

For one thing, the body image presented in the picture above is NOT healthy.

A. The height/weight ratio is not within a healthy range. This woman is 5'8" and weighs 110 pounds. She would have to gain about 15 pounds to even be on the skinny side of a healthy weight. This is according to BMI and also personal experience. Up until a few years ago, I was the exact same height and weight - and, even though I was in no way anorexic, my doctor always told me I needed to gain weight to be healthier. And when I was just a few pounds lighter and still a minor, my parents were threatened with child neglect charges if I didn't gain weight. So, yeah, REAL healthy! :roll:

B. Her tan, as a body image ideal, is unhealthy. Setting this as the goal that girls should strive to achieve tells them that appearance is more important than physical health, and that they should purposefully do something that will harm their physical health (tan) solely to fit a socially contructed ideal of beauty. And, before anyone suggests that women should achieve this ideal with fake tans, let's remember that setting up a standard that cannot be naturally achieved is not healthy either.

C. The same thing goes for the fake breasts. (I'm not going to say that I know for sure that the woman in this picture has fake breasts, but I do know that that size breasts are rarely naturally-occuring on that size frame.) Since it is extremely unlikely that a woman will have a waist that small and breasts that large, that leaves surgery as the only means by which to achieve this standard. There is absolutely no argument to be made that undergoing unnecessary surgical procedures is healthy.

So let's get real here. This is not in any way about being healthy. If it were, everyone would be saying that women with healthy habits are most attractive, or at least that the ideal body is one that is more representative of what the average healthy woman looks like. Instead, this arbitrary ideal for women's bodies is totally socially constructed based on men's perceived desires. (And before anyone says this doesn't represent their desires, let's remember that most of the discussion in this thread is a response to the desires expressed by the first 3 men to post on here - so that image is what we're talking about.) Not only is this "ideal" not healthy, but it blatantly promotes UNhealthy behaviors in women and girls.

(I know I started by saying "for one thing," but I'll have to get to the other things later.)

scb wrote:

Is there an emoticon for shaking one's head in disgust and disdain?

For one thing, the body image presented in the picture above is NOT healthy.

A. The height/weight ratio is not within a healthy range. This woman is 5'8" and weighs 110 pounds. She would have to gain about 15 pounds to even be on the skinny side of a healthy weight. This is according to BMI and also personal experience. Up until a few years ago, I was the exact same height and weight - and, even though I was in no way anorexic, my doctor always told me I needed to gain weight to be healthier. And when I was just a few pounds lighter and still a minor, my parents were threatened with child neglect charges if I didn't gain weight. So, yeah, REAL healthy! :roll:

B. Her tan, as a body image ideal, is unhealthy. Setting this as the goal that girls should strive to achieve tells them that appearance is more important than physical health, and that they should purposefully do something that will harm their physical health (tan) solely to fit a socially contructed ideal of beauty. And, before anyone suggests that women should achieve this ideal with fake tans, let's remember that setting up a standard that cannot be naturally achieved is not healthy either.

C. The same thing goes for the fake breasts. (I'm not going to say that I know for sure that the woman in this picture has fake breasts, but I do know that that size breasts are rarely naturally-occuring on that size frame.) Since it is extremely unlikely that a woman will have a waist that small and breasts that large, that leaves surgery as the only means by which to achieve this standard. There is absolutely no argument to be made that undergoing unnecessary surgical procedures is healthy.

So let's get real here. This is not in any way about being healthy. If it were, everyone would be saying that women with healthy habits are most attractive, or at least that the ideal body is one that is more representative of what the average healthy woman looks like. Instead, this arbitrary ideal for women's bodies is totally socially constructed based on men's perceived desires. (And before anyone says this doesn't represent their desires, let's remember that most of the discussion in this thread is a response to the desires expressed by the first 3 men to post on here - so that image is what we're talking about.) Not only is this "ideal" not healthy, but it blatantly promotes UNhealthy behaviors in women and girls.

(I know I started by saying "for one thing," but I'll have to get to the other things later.)

Hmm well she has good muscle mass which requires good eating habits... without taking in enough calories she would lose that muscle fast. And weight is not always the best indicator of health. For example, I am 6 foot and 200 lbs and by that measure not only am I overweight but I am borderline OBESE... I won't be too egotistical here and post a picture of myself but I guarantee you I am not overweight. For Marisa Miller, 110 lbs may be about right because she has a small frame. Also, she is an avid surfer! You can't be a good athlete without eating right and being HEALTHY.

As for the fake boobs, yeah I HATE fake boobs! Seriously, they feel weird and I am all for a "natural" look. As for the tan... as long as it is done in moderation and with sun block it is okay. I read a report recently that said that people are now not getting enough sun! Granted, too much can lead to skin cancer so it is a fine line.

The bottom line is that anorexia and body issues are a horrible problem, I honestly feel for women who don't like the way they look, but I'm sticking to my point that Miller is HEALTHY and there is no problem with the way she looks. The problem MAY BE that the media bombards women with images of her and tells women they should look like her... which is unrealistic. So women, stop worring about what you look like... and worry about living a healthy lifestyle. The byproduct may be that you like the way you look.

scb wrote:

So let's get real here. This is not in any way about being healthy. If it were, everyone would be saying that women with healthy habits are most attractive, or at least that the ideal body is one that is more representative of what the average healthy woman looks like. Instead, this arbitrary ideal for women's bodies is totally socially constructed based on men's perceived desires. (And before anyone says this doesn't represent their desires, let's remember that most of the discussion in this thread is a response to the desires expressed by the first 3 men to post on here - so that image is what we're talking about.) Not only is this "ideal" not healthy, but it blatantly promotes UNhealthy behaviors in women and girls.

(I know I started by saying "for one thing," but I'll have to get to the other things later.)

Actually I disagree...it has everything to do with being healthy.
You make a good point though about the arbitrarty ideal for womens bodies, exactly -- socially constructed based on men's PERCEIVED desires. Women need to stop perceiving and do what is healthy - that should give them a desirable body to someone.
Another problem is definitely cultural/social... I was in CVS the other day and there are walls and walls and racks of candy. So much fucking candy everywhere. Then right next to it is the magazine stand telling women the 15 reasons they need to eat light and pluck things to get a man. the irony is sickening. Fast food, preservatives, sugar... all the marketing... it has sucked too many people in. If we learned to think for ourselves and eat right so that we can enjoy life to the fullest, our bodies would be fine and ideal.

I have dated women of all body types, and i found all of them attractive in some way, but i didnt learn about a real attraction until I met my current g/f who is a vegetarian and doesnt eat ANY junk food. THAT is very attractive and it results in a very health body. She has rubbed off on me, and i hardly eat junky food and i have never felt better in my whole life.

Just like the best beer is the one in front of me....


I certainly see what is meant by the OP, not sure your skills of persuasion are really working out for ya though.

It's important for fathers & mothers to be the great equalizer to ensure that their daughters grow up with higher self-esteem based upon the things that truly count such as kindness, integrity, etc and not how you look in a bathing suit.

IMO the truth is it isn't all what the media tells us we like. Some of it is human nature and uncontrolled urges for certain things.

JonnyPistachio wrote:

Yeah, "most men"!?
wtf is that?
I completely agree with you blackredyellow...
anorexia/bulimia is a terrible thing, but it is in the mind of the person who is suffering.
The only fix i see to the problem would be if everyone stopped buying the fashion magazines, stupid gossip shows, ect...

I'm sorry, but who said "most men"? The post I read referred to the media, and said the media is comprised of "mostly" men. That's totally different. Geez... why all the defensiveness around here?

The pressure in this society to "achieve" a random, socially constructed body image set forth in the media and on rock band forums is not unique to women with anorexia and bulimia or women who read fashion magazines and watch gossip shows. And this pressure is not just in the mind of the person who is suffering. It is very real and is expressed in very real ways in this society.

Really, you think the ONLY thing we can do about this problem is to stop buying fashion magazines and watching gossip shows? You don't think ANOTHER thing we can do about it would be to stop making comments like the first three male posts in this thread?

South of Seattle wrote:

So what was so bad about what I said?

Somewhere in Between Obese and "Coked" out skinny IS and ideal weight for most people.

Maybe I misunderstood your post, but when Lay down your arms posted a picture of an unnaturally thin, tan, large-breasted, blonde woman looking like she's trying to take off her bikini and said, "Marisa Miller has THE perfect body," and then you replied and said, "Actually that is pretty close to the perfect body," I thought you were agreeing with him.

scb wrote:

Have you seen these?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYhCn0jf46U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ei6JvK0W60I&NR=1

The second video I thought had more meaning than the first. The first one seemed a little pointless to me IMO and didn't have that much impact for me.

I was kind of agreeing with Lay down your arms, she is "closer" to the ideal body than the skinny anorexic girl in the video and the larger one that ended up shooting herself.

I think alot of the problem is with the BMI index. That thing is so far off. By that scale I'm considered obese. I would think anyone who has met or seen a picture would not consider me "obese"

hmmmm.....

... now im glad that the pictures above my 11 yr olds bed are of justin beiber.

Yeah this thread kind of went all over the place.

I think something we all can agree on is the media force feeds us their agenda no matter what it is "Political views, body image, Social class differences, race, etc . . " and we have to be careful on how we interpret these things.

And I think everyone is aware how bad this disease is in reality. But is this disease really caused by the pressures of media and society or is it just something inherent that these people have?