Goldman Sachs

NashvillePJfan wrote:

I am so distraught by what I am reading about how this one investment bank is able to control government policy and steal from the working class. Has the band spoken out on this Wall Street greed factory and pointed to any ways we can get involved to stop the madness?

Who do you think was responsible for the "phat finger". Now the W.H. thinks it no big deal that their sc nominee was on an advisory board for Goldman. Fucking joke. If you are in the market get out now....

The Ruling Class,
the same people that own almost all of the major banks (ESPECIALLY after the financial "collapse" of 2008),
also own the White House, the Supreme Court, most of the Senate, and a good chunk of Congress.

Is it really that big of a surprise to so many on this board?

I'm not talking down, i just thought it had been more obvious than this for a while.
I mean it's been glaring, not just in this White House but in the last half dozen at least.

Again, Goldman Sachs is just the visible golden index finger of a giant blood sucking monster of Mammon.
One that does as it's own will pleases, and may or may not necessarily serve YOUR interests.

But don't go getting caught up blaming "Capitalism" for all this.
Remember that MOST of these folks are, in all actuality, some strange globalist form of a hybrid Fascist-Socialist breed. That is, they want to share YOUR wealth around with their rich ass friends, making you THINK that it is a giant happy global "brotherhood" of equally paying, equally sharing happy-dappy folk. But, the second you, or anyone else steps out of line, its SQUASH like a boot to the throat. So, keep paying your taxes, pay for your healthcare, get ready for your carbon credits, we may need a global poverty tax, don't think about yourself, the citizen in this new century "will be required to do more, not less", "work sets you free", get back on that tread mill and run run run ... the MAN is counting on you, bub! The bank man needs more money ... its for the good of the people. Honest, it is.

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

But don't go getting caught up blaming "Capitalism" for all this.
Remember that MOST of these folks are, in all actuality, some strange globalist form of a hybrid Fascist-Socialist breed.

contestant number 1: All the money people in the world are conspiring, and have been for centuries if not millennia. Capitalism is faultless, cause it's a big covert scheme with flawless honour among thieves that is to blame.

contestant number 2: This is what you get when you combine capitalist principles and ambitions for power and importance. Capitalism, or "capitalism" for you purists, will always be at the intersection between these two, and thus always give the capital owners power. Capitalism is flawed and the big players are constantly fucking eachother over in the pursuit of power and influence (although some cooperate from time to time for a usually limited period).

I'm gonna reveal that my chosen one is the second. The biggest grief people have with the money men is that they have power. At the same time, many here think that more power (money) should be given to them through de-regulation and such out of fear of the state. The state have what power it is granted, while eliminating it causes the people with money to rule, as they are the ones who can pay for anything they want.

You wanna keep the capitalist principle, you better be a staunch defender of tough regulations, cause otherwise, this is exactly what you get. Pompous overinflated financial egos that shun nothing in search of the next pay-out, and who gets away with it. Compare the complexity of the capitalist economy with a computer. You're a damn fool if you dont have anti-virus software and firewalls on your computer. The economy also needs the corresponding features to stay functioning. The "natural state" is not a functioning computer, but a mess of viruses and software errors that add up over time. Same with the fabled "natural state" of capitalism. Markets usually require assistance to remain free, otherwise a few big players eventually eat the others and make the rules themselves.

Peace
Dan

OutOfBreath wrote:

The "natural state" is not a functioning computer, but a mess of viruses and software errors that add up over time. Same with the fabled "natural state" of capitalism. Markets usually require assistance to remain free, otherwise a few big players eventually eat the others and make the rules themselves.

Peace
Dan

Laws against fraud, theft, and extortion are all that are needed to accomplish this "assistance" of which you speak. Government's role should be to enforce contracts, not re-write them. That has always been my take on things. I guess you could say, I'm for de-regulation to make things simpler-- but the few regulations left need to be enforced strictly.

VINNY GOOMBA wrote:

unsung wrote:

Anyone else disturbed that Chris Dodd is trying to give the Fed MORE power?

I am.

Also, if you haven't heard yet, the Senate voted DOWN a full Audit of the Fed in the Financial Reform Bill.

sigh


edit - i don't mean that in a patronizing way

VINNY GOOMBA wrote:

Laws against fraud, theft, and extortion are all that are needed to accomplish this "assistance" of which you speak. Government's role should be to enforce contracts, not re-write them. That has always been my take on things. I guess you could say, I'm for de-regulation to make things simpler-- but the few regulations left need to be enforced strictly.

Honest enough position. I will point out though that deregulation usually go hand-in-hand with sloppy enforcement of those few remaining regulations. If you're pro-business, you're pro-business all the way seems to be the way it is. So those that deregulate aren't that keen on enforcing what's left either...

Peace
Dan

OutOfBreath wrote:

contestant number 2: This is what you get when you combine capitalist principles and ambitions for power and importance. Capitalism, or "capitalism" for you purists, will always be at the intersection between these two, and thus always give the capital owners power. Capitalism is flawed and the big players are constantly fucking eachother over in the pursuit of power and influence (although some cooperate from time to time for a usually limited period).

Dan,
i still stand by my principles, even in as misunderstood a fashion as you seem to take them.

The free market may be the worst system ever invented, but there isn't anything better.
I have zero problems with proper regulation and even am pro-intervention, as long as it's the people, and at a state or local level doing the intervening. I have BIG reservations about BIG Government using it's heavy hand to "fix" things. As Vinny pointed out, it is almost ALWAYS the BIG Private Interests themselves doing this "regulating" or in the case of the Bush's, their Quote\Unquote "Deregulating" (hahahah) ...

Free markets can and do work.
They do NOT necessarily hand over the reins to the richest of the rich.
Only when you start COMBINING COMMUNISM WITH CAPITALISM to form some quasi-fascist-socialist state do you run in to this Mega-Corporate Runaway-Capitalism that we have now.

You've got a financial system that RAPES the poor and middle class, and hands all their essence right over to the super elite who have engineered the system in their favor. To be CRYSTAL CLEAR i'm not talking about some little minutiae of the public law or a loop hole or two ...

I'm talking about the VERY FABRIC of our current financial system ... IE the Federal Reserve system itself ... ie DEBT BEARING NOTES AS LEGAL TENDER ... possibly the biggest scam ever foisted over on the people.

Once you hand over the money supply to the elite private interests and their elite private bank ... either directly, or in the case of America, quazi-indirectly, vis-a-vis the "Federal" "Reserve", then you set the stage for the rapid decline of your Nation's financial health.

The biggest problem with America, historically speaking, was that IT WAS DOING TOO WELL.
The bankers were pissed because borrowing was down and saving were way up. They had to do SOMETHING, so they conspired together (yes, it's true, Dan... Conspiracies happen!) to come up with away to re-engineer the economy in their favor ... they have done this at least three times now in an epic fashion.

So, no, i don't accept your theory that free markets necessarily breed an over-fed elite and an underfed minority. There are PLENTY of cases in history to prove the opposite of this, and to show that the elite always try to BRING DOWN functioning free markets (what the fuck do you think has been going on in this country for the last century???) ... also their is MORE than plenty of case history to show what happens when NON-MARKET economies "thrive" in a country ... namely, they go to shit real quick!

The biggest problem with free markets from a philosophic perspective is one thing, and one thing only: THEY BREED COMPLACENCY ON THE PART OF THE THE PUBLIC.

Without a functioning democratic system, where the public is EDUCATED ON THE ISSUES, understands where threats lies, and PARTICIPATES IN A MEANINGFUL FASHION, then the free market is bound to become a No Mans Land real quick.

One other thing to add.
The SECOND greatest CURRENT threat to our system, besides the Federal Reserve, is and has been since its inception, the Federal Income Tax ... this abhorrent, mandatory, wealth redistribution and enslavement scheme is the next largest weapon in the Economic Terrorist's arsenal ... and they have used it to devastating effect wherever they can get it instituted.

Again, i point you straight back to the Communist Manifesto itself.
National Central Banks and Progressive Income Tax are BOTH MAJOR PLANKS OF THE COMMUNIST SYSTEM.
YOUR LEADERS ARE NOT "CAPTIALISTS", FOLKS.

YOU BETTER DO YOUR HOMEWORK!

Drifting, I am not as at odds with your post here as you might think. Only the knack for tying stuff up to the "communist conspiracy" is where I draw the line, really.

My point is that the "free market" as you describe never ever have existed. (Like communism in that way) What we had before the corporatist free market democracies was absolutist monarchies. Rights then wasn't an issue as your life was a privilege granted by the king. Business was something you could do because the king gave his permission. The US was founded just when the scales of power started tipping from monarchy, feudalism and nobility towards the bourgeois class (traders, bankers, factory owners etc). The US at it's inception was a break from monarchy, true, but in favour of an oligarchy of land owners. There were no "free markets" then either at any meaningful scale.

What one regards as the "free market" today, only remains free because government enables it to be. All developed countries also early learned that they had to take some care of their citizens in the new industrialized world since people no longer grew their own food (nor can they), and social unrest was bubbling under the surface. Here is born the need for taxation, which later also was bolstered by the political wish for taxation in order to spend on social programs. True, taxes is a continuance of what the kings were doing to support their wars and pet projects, but has since been put to other and better uses.

Modern society as we know it exists in the space between free markets and communism, which are the extremes of left/right as we know it generally from politics. Righties will exagerrate how communist we are, and lefties will exaggerate how free market we are. The claim of communism is seriously over-rated, especially if you mean the US (Unless anything left of republican is by definition is communism, but that's utter BS), but as the right leaning people you are, you fret about encroaching "communism".

One question thogh:
How can government regulation not be BIG GOVERNMENT? Who should do it if not the government, and won't they by your definition be BIG GOVERNMENT the moment they do anything?

PS: As for conspiracies, I know they exist, Everyday everywhere people conspire. BUT, such conspiracies that can be identified are almost always about individual gain and influence. You might stretch it to international politics between nations, even. What is BS is that the same conspiracies go on for centuries, or that all conspiracies are basically coordinated by a demi-god super-elite. That seems to be a roundabout way to acknowledge what visibly goes on in society, but refusing to see that what you're talking about is class struggle, which is very openly fought with capitalists on one side and workers on the other. If you just acknowledge class struggle coming from the structures of society being as they are, including capitalism, wealth, ownership and so on, you don't need the conspiracy.

(edit) So instead of digging deep into books from 200+ years ago or going on long walks into esoteric quasi-religious country, you can find more from just paying attention to what visibly goes on. The truth might not be as hidden as you make it out to be

Peace
Dan

VINNY GOOMBA wrote:

By the way, here's a list of how everyone voted. If your Senator voted "Nay" they voted against REAL transparency of The Federal Reserve:
http://senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_ ... vote=00138

I'd also say that if your Senator voted nay he is for big banking. Vote looks to be down party lines. So Dems are you going to call your Senator and complain? I did.

why they didnt chance the name to Goldman Sucks for know what is all about..