I can't wait for Universal Healthcare...

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  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,066
    prfctlefts wrote:

    believe in recommiting ourselves to the ideas of the American Founding.Through the Constitution, the Founders created an enduring framework of limited government based on the rule of law. They sought to secure national independence, provide for economic opportunity, establish true religious liberty and maintain a flourishing society of republican self-government.

    These principles define us as a country and inspire us as a people. They are responsible for a prosperous, just nation unlike any other in the world. They are our highest achievements, serving not only as powerful beacons to all who strive for freedom and seek self-government, but as warnings to tyrants and despots everywhere.

    Each one of these founding ideas is presently under sustained attack. In recent decades, America’s principles have been undermined and redefined in our culture, our universities and our politics. The selfevident truths of 1776 have been supplanted by the notion that no such truths exist. The federal government today ignores the limits of the Constitution, which is increasingly dismissed as obsolete and irrelevant. MVS

    this sounds familiar to me....i think i read this before....actually i did...right here.... http://www.mrcaction.org/550/statement.asp

    nice try, but when you don't post your own words it just looks silly....
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • g under p
    g under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,236
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    prfctlefts wrote:

    believe in recommiting ourselves to the ideas of the American Founding.Through the Constitution, the Founders created an enduring framework of limited government based on the rule of law. They sought to secure national independence, provide for economic opportunity, establish true religious liberty and maintain a flourishing society of republican self-government.

    These principles define us as a country and inspire us as a people. They are responsible for a prosperous, just nation unlike any other in the world. They are our highest achievements, serving not only as powerful beacons to all who strive for freedom and seek self-government, but as warnings to tyrants and despots everywhere.

    Each one of these founding ideas is presently under sustained attack. In recent decades, America’s principles have been undermined and redefined in our culture, our universities and our politics. The selfevident truths of 1776 have been supplanted by the notion that no such truths exist. The federal government today ignores the limits of the Constitution, which is increasingly dismissed as obsolete and irrelevant. MVS

    this sounds familiar to me....i think i read this before....actually i did...right here.... http://www.mrcaction.org/550/statement.asp

    nice try, but when you don't post your own words it just looks silly....

    It would have been far more simplier to quote those remarks than try to past them of as his own. Now who is the real fraud, can anything he says going forward be believed? I gather from whatever he was trying to say we should now run this country like how our American Founding Fathers did year ago and I supposed that is going to be the best system for ALL of our citizens today. Yeah right

    Nice late...early morning catch gimmie.

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • aerial
    aerial Posts: 2,319
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    prfctlefts wrote:

    believe in recommiting ourselves to the ideas of the American Founding.Through the Constitution, the Founders created an enduring framework of limited government based on the rule of law. They sought to secure national independence, provide for economic opportunity, establish true religious liberty and maintain a flourishing society of republican self-government.

    These principles define us as a country and inspire us as a people. They are responsible for a prosperous, just nation unlike any other in the world. They are our highest achievements, serving not only as powerful beacons to all who strive for freedom and seek self-government, but as warnings to tyrants and despots everywhere.

    Each one of these founding ideas is presently under sustained attack. In recent decades, America’s principles have been undermined and redefined in our culture, our universities and our politics. The selfevident truths of 1776 have been supplanted by the notion that no such truths exist. The federal government today ignores the limits of the Constitution, which is increasingly dismissed as obsolete and irrelevant. MVS

    this sounds familiar to me....i think i read this before....actually i did...right here.... http://www.mrcaction.org/550/statement.asp

    nice try, but when you don't post your own words it just looks silly....
    fact is it is true.....it’s a disgrace .........and I don’t see anyone here denying it
    “We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
  • chime
    chime Posts: 7,839
    KDH12 wrote:
    mb262200 wrote:
    This is an answer I got when I asked somebody from Norway paid for taxes.

    I'm still a student, so I don't work so much. But last year I made about 27000 dollars (used a currency calculator), and throughout the year I paid 32% in taxes. When I get a full time job I will probably have to pay about 40%.

    ask him how much he is paying for college and health care out of pocket

    I would gladly pay 40% if they did away with my school loans

    That's a good point in the UK it used to be that University was free it now costs a maximum per year in tuition fees of £3,290 (about US$5000) and our degrees are three years so maximum tution fees of $15000 the rest covered by our taxes. So UHC in the US won't necessarily mean getting the same tax rate as us as our taxes also cover other things.
    So are we strangers now? Like rock and roll and the radio?
  • dunkman
    dunkman Posts: 19,646
    chime wrote:
    KDH12 wrote:
    mb262200 wrote:
    This is an answer I got when I asked somebody from Norway paid for taxes.

    I'm still a student, so I don't work so much. But last year I made about 27000 dollars (used a currency calculator), and throughout the year I paid 32% in taxes. When I get a full time job I will probably have to pay about 40%.

    ask him how much he is paying for college and health care out of pocket

    I would gladly pay 40% if they did away with my school loans

    That's a good point in the UK it used to be that University was free it now costs a maximum per year in tuition fees of £3,290 (about US$5000) and our degrees are three years so maximum tution fees of $15000 the rest covered by our taxes.

    tut tut Pip! University is still free in Scotland Chimey... for people living in Scotland for 3 years before applying.
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
  • chime
    chime Posts: 7,839
    dunkman wrote:
    chime wrote:
    KDH12 wrote:

    ask him how much he is paying for college and health care out of pocket

    I would gladly pay 40% if they did away with my school loans

    That's a good point in the UK it used to be that University was free it now costs a maximum per year in tuition fees of £3,290 (about US$5000) and our degrees are three years so maximum tution fees of $15000 the rest covered by our taxes.

    tut tut Pip! University is still free in Scotland Chimey... for people living in Scotland for 3 years before applying.

    Heehee when I did my post-grad in England I got half my fees paid and a maintance grant from the Scottish students studying abroad fund :lol:

    I love the UK and it's convuluted different countries :mrgreen:
    So are we strangers now? Like rock and roll and the radio?
  • dunkman
    dunkman Posts: 19,646
    chime wrote:
    dunkman wrote:
    chime wrote:

    That's a good point in the UK it used to be that University was free it now costs a maximum per year in tuition fees of £3,290 (about US$5000) and our degrees are three years so maximum tution fees of $15000 the rest covered by our taxes.

    tut tut Pip! University is still free in Scotland Chimey... for people living in Scotland for 3 years before applying.

    Heehee when I did my post-grad in England I got half my fees paid and a maintance grant from the Scottish students studying abroad fund :lol:

    I love the UK and it's convuluted different countries :mrgreen:

    studying abroad? :lol::lol:

    at least we only have the 4 countries rules and stuff to worry about... the US has 50 different laws and regs covering each state.... its a bureaucratic nightmare... combine that with self assessment taxing and the need for many different forms of insurance paperwork to get a sprained ankle fixed i'm surprised people in the US have time to shoot students.
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
  • dunkman
    dunkman Posts: 19,646
    cincybearcat wrote:
    chime wrote:
    redrock wrote:

    I'm not too sure why it would be. Assuming the principles are the same (which I know they will not be..), setting up for 61 million or 304 million shouldn't be all that different. Rules and regulations are written once, whatever the number. You may be talking costs and administration, but all numbers are in proportion to each other. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're trying to say.

    There is also the advantage over the NHS that you are setting up a system when there have been systems set up elsewhere in the world for over 60 years so you can learn from the way other systems have worked and from their mistakes.


    This is true.

    As for the difficulty of setting up a system for 304 million vs. 61 million, we'll just have to disagree.

    its actually quite simple... take the UK health budget and multiply by 5.
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    dunkman wrote:
    i'm surprised people in the US have time to shoot students.

    :P
  • g under p
    g under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,236
    g under p wrote:
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    prfctlefts wrote:

    believe in recommiting ourselves to the ideas of the American Founding.Through the Constitution, the Founders created an enduring framework of limited government based on the rule of law. They sought to secure national independence, provide for economic opportunity, establish true religious liberty and maintain a flourishing society of republican self-government.

    These principles define us as a country and inspire us as a people. They are responsible for a prosperous, just nation unlike any other in the world. They are our highest achievements, serving not only as powerful beacons to all who strive for freedom and seek self-government, but as warnings to tyrants and despots everywhere.

    Each one of these founding ideas is presently under sustained attack. In recent decades, America’s principles have been undermined and redefined in our culture, our universities and our politics. The selfevident truths of 1776 have been supplanted by the notion that no such truths exist. The federal government today ignores the limits of the Constitution, which is increasingly dismissed as obsolete and irrelevant. MVS

    this sounds familiar to me....i think i read this before....actually i did...right here.... http://www.mrcaction.org/550/statement.asp

    nice try, but when you don't post your own words it just looks silly....

    It would have been far more simplier to quote those remarks than try to past them of as his own. Now who is the real fraud, can anything he says going forward be believed? I gather from whatever he was trying to say we should now run this country like how our American Founding Fathers did year ago and I supposed that is going to be the best system for ALL of our citizens today. Yeah right

    Nice late...early morning catch gimmie.

    Peace
    aerial wrote:
    fact is it is true.....it’s a disgrace .........and I don’t see anyone here denying it

    ....Rightfully so, it is a disgrace especially being the original poster.

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,066
    g under p wrote:
    It would have been far more simplier to quote those remarks than try to past them of as his own. Now who is the real fraud, can anything he says going forward be believed? I gather from whatever he was trying to say we should now run this country like how our American Founding Fathers did year ago and I supposed that is going to be the best system for ALL of our citizens today. Yeah right

    Nice late...early morning catch gimmie.

    Peace

    yes, i might be a "radical progressive" but that does not stop me from reading things from all sides...a friend emailed me that link a few weeks ago and as soon as i began to read his post i immediately recognized it...
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,834
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    [but on this issue, in this thread, your side has been owned. probably worse than i have ever seen on this board, and i've been here since late 2001..


    Ahhh....the wonderfully productive "owned" has made it's appearance. Are you keeping score here?
    hippiemom = goodness
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,834
    dunkman wrote:

    its actually quite simple... take the UK health budget and multiply by 5.

    You really think that? How easy is it for you to get 3 of your family members to agree what is the right thing to do? Now multiply that by 100 million. It's not easy. Thinking it is simple is part of the problem. Rushing through something because you think you know what is right for EVERYONE (when after all it is only your opinion) is not a good idea...and hence, where we are today.

    The dialogue needs to continue. People need to stop taking a "side" and start reviewing the facts. But it won;t happen, hasn't even happened on this messageboard. So any change to Health Care that comes from this half assed effort will be a failure and take away any chance of a good system for some time by making people very skeptical of the entire process all over again. The dialogue on health care should have started when Obama started it, but a proposal shouldn't have been made until after the discussion was over.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,834
    Byrnzie wrote:
    dunkman wrote:
    i'm surprised people in the US have time to shoot students.

    :P


    Kids getting shot is a hilarious topic. Next let's laugh about earthquakes.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • dunkman
    dunkman Posts: 19,646
    cincybearcat wrote:
    dunkman wrote:

    its actually quite simple... take the UK health budget and multiply by 5.

    You really think that? How easy is it for you to get 3 of your family members to agree what is the right thing to do? Now multiply that by 100 million. It's not easy. Thinking it is simple is part of the problem. Rushing through something because you think you know what is right for EVERYONE (when after all it is only your opinion) is not a good idea...and hence, where we are today.

    its very very easy to get 3 of my family members to agree... take this very topic.

    Q. Mum, Dad and my Wife.. would you like a Healthcare system like the UK one, where you are treated and dealt with not according to wealth, colour or class, but because you are simply a bit sick... or one where you pay a variant fee according to an insurer who then may or may not pay out for your treatment due to a pre-existing condition or some other get out clause and where payments may actually increase depending on your familys medical background. Or if you cannot afford any insurance you simply wait until it becomes too bad and then visit the ER?

    A: (all 3 immediately shout) "The UK version!"
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
  • chime
    chime Posts: 7,839
    I was looking into renewing my travel insurance and got me thinking of another problem as when renewing travel insurance for a year I have to think about whether I'm likely to travel to the US or not in the coming year as travel insurance is sold here as Worldwide (excl. US) - cheaper OR Worldwide (incl. US) more expensive - and the US is the only country that is listed like this. The only reason I can think of for this premium on travelling to the US is the cost of healthcare. The US system is designed to make money and obviously UHC is not and getting that many professionals out of that mindset and into one of cost reduction will be a challenge. Will doctors etc accept that they are not going to make as much money.

    Here doctors are considered well paid but compared to some of their American counter-parts it's nothing.
    So are we strangers now? Like rock and roll and the radio?
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,834
    dunkman wrote:
    cincybearcat wrote:
    dunkman wrote:

    its actually quite simple... take the UK health budget and multiply by 5.

    You really think that? How easy is it for you to get 3 of your family members to agree what is the right thing to do? Now multiply that by 100 million. It's not easy. Thinking it is simple is part of the problem. Rushing through something because you think you know what is right for EVERYONE (when after all it is only your opinion) is not a good idea...and hence, where we are today.

    its very very easy to get 3 of my family members to agree... take this very topic.

    Q. Mum, Dad and my Wife.. would you like a Healthcare system like the UK one, where you are treated and dealt with not according to wealth, colour or class, but because you are simply a bit sick... or one where you pay a variant fee according to an insurer who then may or may not pay out for your treatment due to a pre-existing condition or some other get out clause and where payments may actually increase depending on your familys medical background. Or if you cannot afford any insurance you simply wait until it becomes too bad and then visit the ER?

    A: (all 3 immediately shout) "The UK version!"

    I object...leading the witnesses.

    Judge ... "Sustained...counselor that was a really bullshit way to ask that question".
    hippiemom = goodness
  • dunkman
    dunkman Posts: 19,646
    cincybearcat wrote:
    dunkman wrote:

    its very very easy to get 3 of my family members to agree... take this very topic.

    Q. Mum, Dad and my Wife.. would you like a Healthcare system like the UK one, where you are treated and dealt with not according to wealth, colour or class, but because you are simply a bit sick... or one where you pay a variant fee according to an insurer who then may or may not pay out for your treatment due to a pre-existing condition or some other get out clause and where payments may actually increase depending on your familys medical background. Or if you cannot afford any insurance you simply wait until it becomes too bad and then visit the ER?

    A: (all 3 immediately shout) "The UK version!"

    I object...leading the witnesses.

    Judge ... "Sustained...counselor that was a really bullshit way to ask that question".


    :clap::D
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,066
    cincybearcat wrote:
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    [but on this issue, in this thread, your side has been owned. probably worse than i have ever seen on this board, and i've been here since late 2001..


    Ahhh....the wonderfully productive "owned" has made it's appearance. Are you keeping score here?
    i guess you missed page three, huh....
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • KDH12
    KDH12 Posts: 2,096
    Privatization leads to high cost. I know many want to say big government is bad but lets think about cost. In Chicago we privatized toll roads and parking meters and immediately prices went up. Now with essentials like health care, electricity and gas services I am not sure why we would want those in the hands of private entities? So they can keep increasing the costs making it harder to make ends meet each month?
    **CUBS GO ALL THE WAY IN......never **

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