I can't wait for Universal Healthcare...

haffajappa · March 2010

mb262200 wrote:

I never said 50%. I believe we could lose 50% of our check after tax hikes, social security, and if your paying into a retirement fund. The few people that I have talked to about it have said 40% to 45%. One of them is on this thread. I do not know if that is based on pay rate. From what I have gathered so far, somebody working part time gets taxed 30%. Somebody working full time gets taxed more, like 40%. This comes from people in England and Canada.

Are you sure its all tax?
Not employee benefit plans, union dues, etc?

haffajappa · March 2010

I hate paying taxes! Who doesn't? And when you leave healthcare to the government to fund, sometimes you end up in health cuts (as BC is in now!)
But even so... as shitty as the government is, and the decisions they make, I STILL would not want to have privatized health care... I have never understood why people would want that - other than the slant that the media has on things. Leaving everything up to private corporations? My god..

Personally, I would rather see my tax dollars going to universal health care rather than a 700 billion dollar defense budget :shock:

OnTheEdge · March 2010

haffajappa wrote:

mb262200 wrote:

I never said 50%. I believe we could lose 50% of our check after tax hikes, social security, and if your paying into a retirement fund. The few people that I have talked to about it have said 40% to 45%. One of them is on this thread. I do not know if that is based on pay rate. From what I have gathered so far, somebody working part time gets taxed 30%. Somebody working full time gets taxed more, like 40%. This comes from people in England and Canada.

Are you sure its all tax?
Not employee benefit plans, union dues, etc?

I'm trying to find the quote where somebody answered this for me. I thought it was on this thread but it isn't.

haffajappa · March 2010

mb262200 wrote:

haffajappa wrote:

mb262200 wrote:

I never said 50%. I believe we could lose 50% of our check after tax hikes, social security, and if your paying into a retirement fund. The few people that I have talked to about it have said 40% to 45%. One of them is on this thread. I do not know if that is based on pay rate. From what I have gathered so far, somebody working part time gets taxed 30%. Somebody working full time gets taxed more, like 40%. This comes from people in England and Canada.

Are you sure its all tax?
Not employee benefit plans, union dues, etc?

I'm trying to find the quote where somebody answered this for me. I thought it was on this thread but it isn't.

Well I ask because my mother is a teacher and she gets close to 35% - 40% of her paycheck taken, but thats in union dues, pension plans, taxes, school board stuff etc.

Trust me, her life hasn't changed dramatically even with that chunk taken away (again, not all tax!). She could still afford the $1000 TV system I'm watching... But could she afford an operation down there? Maybe not... :?

OnTheEdge · March 2010

This is an answer I got when I asked somebody from Norway paid for taxes.

I'm still a student, so I don't work so much. But last year I made about 27000 dollars (used a currency calculator), and throughout the year I paid 32% in taxes. When I get a full time job I will probably have to pay about 40%.

Commy · March 2010

mb262200 wrote:

KDH12 wrote:

mb262200 wrote:

Isn't anybody concerned about the tax hikes that will come along with universal health care? If we are paying a 40 to 45 % tax, plus social security, then if your paying into 401K,what are you left with? Maybe 50% of your check? To me that is scarey. That will be a very altering lifestyle to many many americans who are already struggling to get by. Not to mention....if you take more money out of the peoples pockets, it can't help the economy much.

not sure why you keep getting stuck on this issue becuase I do not think that your taxes would go up that high. Yes up a little but not to 50%

you are listening to the fear that some preach to

overall the fact that are system is fucked and people don't see it is proof that our educational system needs fixing as well.

Well, i'm just going by what every other country with universal health care pays for taxes. It seems a little naive to think that it would be any different here in the states.

The US spends about as much as the rest of the world combined on its military, its got an empire to run, sure, but there is plenty of room to save lives, if they chose to stop taking them. No need for new taxes.

KDH12 · March 2010

mb262200 wrote:

This is an answer I got when I asked somebody from Norway paid for taxes.

I'm still a student, so I don't work so much. But last year I made about 27000 dollars (used a currency calculator), and throughout the year I paid 32% in taxes. When I get a full time job I will probably have to pay about 40%.

ask him how much he is paying for college and health care out of pocket

I would gladly pay 40% if they did away with my school loans

KDH12 · March 2010

haffajappa wrote:

Well I ask because my mother is a teacher and she gets close to 35% - 40% of her paycheck taken, but thats in union dues, pension plans, taxes, school board stuff etc.

Trust me, her life hasn't changed dramatically even with that chunk taken away (again, not all tax!). She could still afford the $1000 TV system I'm watching... But could she afford an operation down there? Maybe not... :?

half of those are pretax deductions however they are still high cost expenses

KDH12 · March 2010

mb262200 wrote:

I never said 50%. I believe we could lose 50% of our check after tax hikes, social security, and if your paying into a retirement fund. The few people that I have talked to about it have said 40% to 45%. One of them is on this thread. I do not know if that is based on pay rate. From what I have gathered so far, somebody working part time gets taxed 30%. Somebody working full time gets taxed more, like 40%. This comes from people in England and Canada.

you really need to think about what you say and said

he did say 40%-50%

and it is crazy if you think you are going to loose half your check, but I fail to see the difference between a 50% tax rate and loosing 50% of your check although it sounds like you are trying to state a difference

several people in other countries posted their countries scaled tax rates not sure why that is not enough information for you, if you search hard enough you might find the one or two excpetions

haffajappa · March 2010

KDH12 wrote:

mb262200 wrote:

This is an answer I got when I asked somebody from Norway paid for taxes.

I'm still a student, so I don't work so much. But last year I made about 27000 dollars (used a currency calculator), and throughout the year I paid 32% in taxes. When I get a full time job I will probably have to pay about 40%.

ask him how much he is paying for college and health care out of pocket

I would gladly pay 40% if they did away with my school loans

no kidding!
Norway is number 1 for places to live...
I've heard from various people that university is paid for...
Not sure how true it is, but i've heard about it from lots of people. Sweden too...

haffajappa · March 2010

KDH12 wrote:

haffajappa wrote:

Well I ask because my mother is a teacher and she gets close to 35% - 40% of her paycheck taken, but thats in union dues, pension plans, taxes, school board stuff etc.

Trust me, her life hasn't changed dramatically even with that chunk taken away (again, not all tax!). She could still afford the $1000 TV system I'm watching... But could she afford an operation down there? Maybe not... :?

half of those are pretax deductions however they are still high cost expenses

Ok I asked my mom and she showed me her paystub... (i needed somoene with a REAL job, unlike myself

)
Of her deductions, it broke down like this:

income tax: 17%
employment insurance: 1.7%
canada pension plan: 4.8%
teachers pension plan: 9.1%
medical: 1.19%
BCTA and BTA union dues: roughly 2%
and an extra 2-3% that was various other things that my mom doesn't even know what they are.
the total worked out to about 40% of her paycheque, with over 20% of that not being income tax...

gimmesometruth27 · March 2010

unsung wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

you know why i called you out. you are an antagonist in this thread. you seem to side with the other 3 posters every chance you get. you seem like a smart guy so i wanted to find out what you would have to say about that situation and if you had a one line reply about it or were you going to ignore it like everyone else did when i posted defense spending....your posts suggest to me that you want obama to fail, the same as rush and the same as those on fox news. there are people here who are anti obama and relish in his failures, the same as the teabaggers on here, and more often that not you align yourself with people like them.

i do not care who you voted for or what your stance is on the wars. all i know of you is what you post.
all i care about is progressing this country and moving forward and doing the greatest good for the most people.

I'm the antagonist? I said I wouldn't have a problem with it if certain controls were put into place. How is that being in any way an antagonist? I would have answered your question about defense but instead you assumed I am for the military budget that we have. You should have taken the time to know where I stand on that issue since you claim I'm the antagonist, but you admittedly stated that you don't care where I stand. Kind of hard to present a debate when you don't know the facts.

No I don't want Obama to fail, because then the country fails. However I don't agree with most of his policies because he wants to spend money like it grows on trees. I've NEVER listened to Rush in my life. He is a blowhard much like Bill Maher. You want to cut defense? Fine by me. But I want cuts across the board, starting with a few choice programs I'd like to see reduced or eliminated. I'm sure I could find the funding without cutting the military budget pretty easily. I only want one person to fail, Nancy Pelosi. I don't use the word hate, but I hate her. The only other thing I hate is country music.

Call me a teabagger if you want, I'd rather be that than a liberal or a neo-con.

yes you are being an antagonist. or would obstructionist be a better term? coming up with reason after reason and unmeetable restrictions for why universal health care should be stopped. like i said, all i know of you is what you post here. i think you actually supported obama in 2008 when you used another screen name but that is neither here nor there. you say we can't have a debate when i don't know the facts. i know the facts of the defense spending not your beliefs, and frankly your beliefs do not have any bearing on this debate.

as far as obama failing, what has he proposed that you actually support? in today's politics and this enviroment people are hoping he fails. i consider blanket opposition to his policies as a general rule of thumb to be equal to hoping he fails. you are either with him or against him. we have to spend money to get the economy going again. if not it stagnates and then jobs and wages and personal spending drop like rocks. we are on the brink of forever here and what we do, or more importantly fail to do right now is going to effect this country for a generation or two to come. its not about me and you or our beliefs, its about moving this country forward and getting it out of the deep recession we are in. we have to spend money to get it going again. the alternative is doing nothing and then nothing will ever improve. i want to cut defense first. then nasa, those things are not helping our country right now. across the board cuts and eliminating programs is irresponsible in my opinion because it hurts a large number of the citizins...you can hate pelosi all you want, we all have people in politics that we despise, but she is on the field now so we have to hope she can help win the game.

if you want to be called a teabagger that's fine with me, just don't get mad at me or anyone else if people start calling you that..

OnTheEdge · March 2010

haffajappa wrote:

KDH12 wrote:

haffajappa wrote:

Well I ask because my mother is a teacher and she gets close to 35% - 40% of her paycheck taken, but thats in union dues, pension plans, taxes, school board stuff etc.

Trust me, her life hasn't changed dramatically even with that chunk taken away (again, not all tax!). She could still afford the $1000 TV system I'm watching... But could she afford an operation down there? Maybe not... :?

half of those are pretax deductions however they are still high cost expenses

Ok I asked my mom and she showed me her paystub... (i needed somoene with a REAL job, unlike myself )
Of her deductions, it broke down like this:

income tax: 17%
employment insurance: 1.7%
canada pension plan: 4.8%
teachers pension plan: 9.1%
medical: 1.19%
BCTA and BTA union dues: roughly 2%
and an extra 2-3% that was various other things that my mom doesn't even know what they are.
the total worked out to about 40% of her paycheque, with over 20% of that not being income tax...

Thats good to know....thanks.

KDH12 · March 2010

mb262200 wrote:

haffajappa wrote:

KDH12 wrote:

half of those are pretax deductions however they are still high cost expenses

Ok I asked my mom and she showed me her paystub... (i needed somoene with a REAL job, unlike myself )
Of her deductions, it broke down like this:

income tax: 17%
employment insurance: 1.7%
canada pension plan: 4.8%
teachers pension plan: 9.1%
medical: 1.19%
BCTA and BTA union dues: roughly 2%
and an extra 2-3% that was various other things that my mom doesn't even know what they are.
the total worked out to about 40% of her paycheque, with over 20% of that not being income tax...

Thats good to know....thanks.

Note that less then 20% is tax and medical coverage

Note that Canada does not spend almost a trillion a year on defense

Note that almost 15% is being reserved for retirement

I think I want to move to Canada

WaveCameCrashin · March 2010

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

i want to cut defense first. then nasa, those things are not helping our country right now. across the board cuts and eliminating programs is irresponsible in my opinion because it hurts a large number of the citizins...

:? I will actually agree with you that we could cut some on defense spending,but we should not make cuts to NASA that will cost Jobs and isn't that what were trying not to do.For Florida it would be devastating in the short term," Roger Handberg, a political scientist at the University of Central Florida who has written extensively on space policy. "If NASA goes into relative decline or suspension of manned launches, we're going to be in a hole.

Florida senator Bill Nelson (D-Orlando) has also come out against the plan, and other politicians from states that would lose jobs are also likely to fight the proposal.

WaveCameCrashin · March 2010

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

aerial wrote:

The four you are talking about may have similar ideas, yet we do not agree on everything. What makes us different is we do not berate each other when we do have a difference of opinion. We listen to you and even though we may disagree with you and the other progressives, we treat you and the others that aline with you in a totally respectful manner when possible. Not all people in the TP hate Obama, but some do not trust him. We are human with different opinions just as you are.....so why are you always so hostile? Why would anyone answer you when You act as though you are the one and only person that knows all?....It would be nice if you could open your mind and heart show a little compassion & Respect for others. You might learn something new.

Now in reference to the enlarged lettering...all you are saying here is he is gutless and does not stand behind his convictions. He made a promise to end the war and instead of holding him to his campaign promises you are making excesses for him...Why is that?

i do not have time to make friends on here aerial. i am gruff and matter of fact and do not waste time with the idea that tax cuts will fix everything and that the free market will sort things out. and i do not give credence to the tea party because of their antics at town hall meetings and that most of them are, to put it kindly, uninformed...and most of them only became somewhat politically aware in november of 2008 when the same shit had been going on the previous 8 years... so i am sorry if my style and demeanor does not make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

regarding the bolded part, did you read my post? or did you read it and not comprehend it? i am not making excuses, i am speculating as to his motives with everything that is going on in the big picture politically today. i said he signed it because of the firestorm from the right that would have erupted if he had let it expire. the things i put in quotes are assertions from the right that have been stated ad nauseum for 2 years now....these are things that have been said by prominent figures on the right, cheney, giuliani, palin, and the media outlet for the right called fox news. i think he chose not to take up this fight because he would be smeared in the press and i think his base is loyal enough to him to put up with another year of the patriot act in order for him to complete the iraq troop drawdown and so we can finish in afghanistan. i think his base will stay loyal enough to him because they would rather him be in office than any republican or tea candidate out there. cleaning up after your boy bush can not be finished in one year. one thing at a time....

No doubt you definitely act like jerk 99% of the time but I could care less, To me you're just another Radical Progressive that wants to see this country re formed into some kind of LIberal Utopia. Well I got news for you.... It aint gonna happen... Your party is going to their asses kicked so hard in November and I can't wait.
And as far as your comment about People speaking out at Townhall forums just shows you don't support freedom of speech. Those People that spoke up have every goddamn right to be heard ! But Its jerks like you that think we dont..Those Senators and Congressman work for us. WE don't work for them ! And yeah about 10% of Tea Party goers are loons.But So What... They have a right to FREE SPEECH also. There are way more on the left who want to Fundamentally change this country and most of you don't even Support the Constitution. Obama is a FRAUD and the American People are on to him and we are on to what people like you want to do to our country.

pjfan021 · March 2010

this bill isn't UHC...it's a shell of that. It will help and i think that A bill needs to be implemented now. give the people some time to see how effective it is, then go back in and make the serious adjustments to it. INSURANCE COMPANIES ARE ALREADY GETTING IN THE WAY OF YOU AND YOUR HEALTHCARE...NOT THE GOVT. To the OP, you cannot take one article on one hospital and form an opinion....well you can but it's not a strong, fact based one. We have public schools in this country, i've lived in the shitty areas of chicago and moved to the burbs...those public schools that the govt. runs can be vastly different (guess which ones have the better ones) just like it seems these hospitals in places like Canada and Scotland are. The only difference being, as i understand it, you have the option of not being to confined to only a handful of places (which our current medical system does.) Just in general, this whole medical system is SOOOOOOO FUCKED in this country we need to have some big changes...and i liked the presidents original plan, public option and a tax increase on the top 1% of the population (people making 1,000,000 and more) to pay for the rest. The govt. isn't going to kill you, the insurance and drug companies do that for you...all while they collect billions of dollars a year in profit....about 6 lobbyists per every member of congress...that's why shit doesn't get done.

gimmesometruth27 · March 2010

prfctlefts wrote:

No doubt you definitely act like jerk 99% of the time but I could care less, To me you're just another Radical Progressive that wants to see this country re formed into some kind of LIberal Utopia. Well I got news for you.... It aint gonna happen... Your party is going to their asses kicked so hard in November and I can't wait.
And as far as your comment about People speaking out at Townhall forums just shows you don't support freedom of speech. Those People that spoke up have every goddamn right to be heard ! But Its jerks like you that think we dont..Those Senators and Congressman work for us. WE don't work for them ! And yeah about 10% of Tea Party goers are loons.But So What... They have a right to FREE SPEECH also. There are way more on the left who want to Fundamentally change this country and most of you don't even Support the Constitution. Obama is a FRAUD and the American People are on to him and we are on to what people like you want to do to our country.

i would reply to this but you will probably report my post so i won't say what i really want to say....
i don't care if you think i am a jerk. i really don't. as i said, i am not here to be your friend. you can call me a radical or whatever you like, it really does not bother me. but on this issue, in this thread, your side has been owned. probably worse than i have ever seen on this board, and i've been here since late 2001.. we have people from other countries saying how well their system works, yet why can it not work here? why to YOU say it will bankrupt the country when universal health care has yet to bankrupt any country that has it? you have given no proof that it will. why can you not address the figures i gave about the defense budget? why can you not give credence to what people from other countries have to say? does their opinion and there experience not matter because they are not american? or because you read one article about one hospital you are now an authority on the subject? their posts and my posts speak for themselves. we will not change your mind, but you have to admit that something is wrong and if we don't fix it now we will be in for a world of hurt later. you have to concede that point at least.

i believe in the freedom of speech, but in order for me to listen and pay attention you better know what you are talking about. the teabaggers' most vocal speakers are the stupidest 2% in the country. this has been proven time and again by video clips, photos, and newspaper articles. look at the "tea baggers" thread on this very message board. look at the signs they make, look at what they yell in the meetings, they have absolutely no clue. and as for november 2010, i welcome the challenges from the republicans. i welcome it, because your party has no ideas other than "NO NO NO!!" and do not think for one second the public does not know that. i can not wait for the ads to come out. its gonna be great. and as far as obama being a fraud, i feel sorry for you if you are in fact that cynical. can't you see that he is doing the best he can with what he has been given? i am sure mccain would have done a much better job......yeah right...

WaveCameCrashin · March 2010

pjfan021 wrote:

this bill isn't UHC...it's a shell of that. It will help and i think that A bill needs to be implemented now. give the people some time to see how effective it is, then go back in and make the serious adjustments to it. INSURANCE COMPANIES ARE ALREADY GETTING IN THE WAY OF YOU AND YOUR HEALTHCARE...NOT THE GOVT. To the OP, you cannot take one article on one hospital and form an opinion....well you can but it's not a strong, fact based one. We have public schools in this country, i've lived in the shitty areas of chicago and moved to the burbs...those public schools that the govt. runs can be vastly different (guess which ones have the better ones) just like it seems these hospitals in places like Canada and Scotland are. The only difference being, as i understand it, you have the option of not being to confined to only a handful of places (which our current medical system does.) Just in general, this whole medical system is SOOOOOOO FUCKED in this country we need to have some big changes...and i liked the presidents original plan, public option and a tax increase on the top 1% of the population (people making 1,000,000 and more) to pay for the rest. The govt. isn't going to kill you, the insurance and drug companies do that for you...all while they collect billions of dollars a year in profit....about 6 lobbyists per every member of congress...that's why shit doesn't get done.

I agree our Healthcare system isnt perfect,but a complete Gov takeover is only going to make it worse. The GOV can't run shit right.They will only run it into the ground. It will lead to price controls and it will hamper innovation,competition,and choice and it will also lead to rationing and artificially high prices just look at at Social Sec, Medi-care,and Medi-caid.. They are all billions in the red. Obama says it will only cost a Trillion,but the CBO is saying it's going to cost more like 6 Trillion. All that will do is drive the cost up. And as far as the Ins companies go.I agree they need some GOV oversite no doubt. But Why doesn't Obama and the Dems support Tort reform ? Because the lawyers are some of their biggest contributors to their party. Let us buy across state lines is another example that will drive down the cost.

WaveCameCrashin · March 2010

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

prfctlefts wrote:

No doubt you definitely act like jerk 99% of the time but I could care less, To me you're just another Radical Progressive that wants to see this country re formed into some kind of LIberal Utopia. Well I got news for you.... It aint gonna happen... Your party is going to their asses kicked so hard in November and I can't wait.
And as far as your comment about People speaking out at Townhall forums just shows you don't support freedom of speech. Those People that spoke up have every goddamn right to be heard ! But Its jerks like you that think we dont..Those Senators and Congressman work for us. WE don't work for them ! And yeah about 10% of Tea Party goers are loons.But So What... They have a right to FREE SPEECH also. There are way more on the left who want to Fundamentally change this country and most of you don't even Support the Constitution. Obama is a FRAUD and the American People are on to him and we are on to what people like you want to do to our country.

i would reply to this but you will probably report my post so i won't say what i really want to say....
i don't care if you think i am a jerk. i really don't. as i said, i am not here to be your friend. you can call me a radical or whatever you like, it really does not bother me. but on this issue, in this thread, your side has been owned. probably worse than i have ever seen on this board, and i've been here since late 2001.. we have people from other countries saying how well their system works, yet why can it not work here? why to YOU say it will bankrupt the country when universal health care has yet to bankrupt any country that has it? you have given no proof that it will. why can you not address the figures i gave about the defense budget? why can you not give credence to what people from other countries have to say? does their opinion and there experience not matter because they are not american? or because you read one article about one hospital you are now an authority on the subject? their posts and my posts speak for themselves. we will not change your mind, but you have to admit that something is wrong and if we don't fix it now we will be in for a world of hurt later. you have to concede that point at least.

i believe in the freedom of speech, but in order for me to listen and pay attention you better know what you are talking about. the teabaggers' most vocal speakers are the stupidest 2% in the country. this has been proven time and again by video clips, photos, and newspaper articles. look at the "tea baggers" thread on this very message board. look at the signs they make, look at what they yell in the meetings, they have absolutely no clue. and as for november 2010, i welcome the challenges from the republicans. i welcome it, because your party has no ideas other than "NO NO NO!!" and do not think for one second the public does not know that. i can not wait for the ads to come out. its gonna be great. and as far as obama being a fraud, i feel sorry for you if you are in fact that cynical. can't you see that he is doing the best he can with what he has been given? i am sure mccain would have done a much better job......yeah right...

Really.. :roll:

Just like you reported me when I said you were a peice of fecal matter. Honestly I could care less if you did or didnt I needed a break from this place. But I digress... My side has been owned :roll: :? WTF is that supppose to mean. I didnt know we were in a pissing contest. I posted that link to prove a point that what UHC can can lead to.There is no such thing as free health care.

You will be paying for your health care and for the health care of everyone else. There is no way to create universal health care without severely increasing taxes. Even though you would not be making a payment at the doctor’s office you would be making huge payments out of every pay day check you earn.

It is true that there are too many people who currently do not have access to care and it is an issue that must be addressed. However creating a government sponsored system which would allow politicians to severely handicap your doctor’s ability to provide you with the best treatment is clearly not the answer. When it comes to health care we cannot settle for mediocre.

As far as the tee partiers most vocal being the stupidest 2%... Just look wher you get your info from.. You get it from outlets that want to make them look as bad as the possibly can. So yeah of course they are going to show some people that might not be very sharp, But at least they are standidng up for something that they believe in. 90% of them and me believe in recommiting ourselves to the ideas of the American Founding.Through the Constitution, the Founders created an enduring framework of limited government based on the rule of law. They sought to secure national independence, provide for economic opportunity, establish true religious liberty and maintain a flourishing society of republican self-government.

These principles define us as a country and inspire us as a people. They are responsible for a prosperous, just nation unlike any other in the world. They are our highest achievements, serving not only as powerful beacons to all who strive for freedom and seek self-government, but as warnings to tyrants and despots everywhere.

Each one of these founding ideas is presently under sustained attack. In recent decades, America’s principles have been undermined and redefined in our culture, our universities and our politics. The selfevident truths of 1776 have been supplanted by the notion that no such truths exist. The federal government today ignores the limits of the Constitution, which is increasingly dismissed as obsolete and irrelevant. MVS

I can't wait for Universal Healthcare...

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