I can't wait for Universal Healthcare...

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Comments

  • g under p
    g under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,236
    markin ball wrote:
    Why is everybody against UHC so upset? You guys won. Whatever bill gets passed will be a serious piece of crap and it won't be anything even close to UHC. Am I right?

    You are right they won, the UHC bill will certainly be very weak and what exactly is their to fear. The representatives who speak of *let's start over* let's start with a *clean sheet* all seem to be a stall tactic. A tactic to make Obama look incompetent and can not get health care done. Whatever it takes to tear him down, it's no wonder Canadians can boast with images like this.....

    canadians-respond-to-hockey-upset-flash.jpg

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • dunkman
    dunkman Posts: 19,646
    cincybearcat wrote:
    dunkman wrote:

    no one defended the original posters story that he posted.


    I didn't say anyone did...

    you implied it
    cincybearcat wrote:
    How could anyone defend that? How could anyone defend the story about the hospital either?

    but carry on posting one line rebuttals and ignoring the posts of others.

    here's an ostrich

    head-in-the-sand.gif
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
  • unsung
    unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    again you are blaming obama for the military budget. your side would destroy him and call him "weak on defense" and "soft on terrorism" and perhaps the republicans two favorite accusations of "not supporting the troops" and "providing comfort to the enemy" if he were to stop funding the wars. it is a political fight he is not going to take up right now because he does not need those attacks from your side in addition to all of the baseless accusations already leveled against his health care plan...suppose war funding were to be dropped. would you support universal health care then?


    Do you even know what my "side" is? Do you know where I stand on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan? Do you know who I voted for to be President? Do you want to know those answers? Or do you want to just keep guessing and putting me in a group because that is the easy way out.

    I've already stated what would need to be done for me to support UHC.

    You still haven't answered why you called me out specifically. I did not say I was totally against it. I simply, once again, want controls in place.
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,834
    dunkman wrote:
    cincybearcat wrote:
    dunkman wrote:

    no one defended the original posters story that he posted.


    I didn't say anyone did...

    you implied it
    cincybearcat wrote:
    How could anyone defend that? How could anyone defend the story about the hospital either?

    but carry on posting one line rebuttals and ignoring the posts of others.

    here's an ostrich

    head-in-the-sand.gif


    Oh, looky who's all cute posting pictures...why are you so defensive. I didn't imply anything. I said neither story was defensible...and neither are your posts.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,834
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    cincybearcat wrote:
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    does anyone want to try to defend this or just read it and ignore it like usual? this bullshit should not happen in this or any country...profits over people...hooray!! unsung? prfctlfts? aerial? anyone???


    How could anyone defend that? How could anyone defend the story about the hospital either?

    No one can, they are both awful.
    maybe defend was a poor choice of words...how about can anyone make an excuse for that or justify that?

    cancer treatments have long been used and covered by insurance, so why are these treatments now considered experimental or unecessary??

    he might have had better luck if he had Joe Blow Insurance Company or something...

    I get your point, but the answer is still the same, there is no excuse for it. The system needs a change, but we'd do well to see the issues with the other systems in place currently and attempt to avoid them. It's also not as easy to set up UHC or anything like it in the US as it is in the UK or any other much smaller/less populated country.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    cincybearcat wrote:
    It's also not as easy to set up UHC or anything like it in the US as it is in the UK or any other much smaller/less populated country.

    I'm not too sure why it would be. Assuming the principles are the same (which I know they will not be..), setting up for 61 million or 304 million shouldn't be all that different. Rules and regulations are written once, whatever the number. You may be talking costs and administration, but all numbers are in proportion to each other. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're trying to say.
  • chime
    chime Posts: 7,839
    redrock wrote:
    cincybearcat wrote:
    It's also not as easy to set up UHC or anything like it in the US as it is in the UK or any other much smaller/less populated country.

    I'm not too sure why it would be. Assuming the principles are the same (which I know they will not be..), setting up for 61 million or 304 million shouldn't be all that different. Rules and regulations are written once, whatever the number. You may be talking costs and administration, but all numbers are in proportion to each other. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're trying to say.

    There is also the advantage over the NHS that you are setting up a system when there have been systems set up elsewhere in the world for over 60 years so you can learn from the way other systems have worked and from their mistakes.
    So are we strangers now? Like rock and roll and the radio?
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,834
    chime wrote:
    redrock wrote:
    cincybearcat wrote:
    It's also not as easy to set up UHC or anything like it in the US as it is in the UK or any other much smaller/less populated country.

    I'm not too sure why it would be. Assuming the principles are the same (which I know they will not be..), setting up for 61 million or 304 million shouldn't be all that different. Rules and regulations are written once, whatever the number. You may be talking costs and administration, but all numbers are in proportion to each other. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're trying to say.

    There is also the advantage over the NHS that you are setting up a system when there have been systems set up elsewhere in the world for over 60 years so you can learn from the way other systems have worked and from their mistakes.


    This is true.

    As for the difficulty of setting up a system for 304 million vs. 61 million, we'll just have to disagree.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,055
    unsung wrote:
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    again you are blaming obama for the military budget. your side would destroy him and call him "weak on defense" and "soft on terrorism" and perhaps the republicans two favorite accusations of "not supporting the troops" and "providing comfort to the enemy" if he were to stop funding the wars. it is a political fight he is not going to take up right now because he does not need those attacks from your side in addition to all of the baseless accusations already leveled against his health care plan...suppose war funding were to be dropped. would you support universal health care then?


    Do you even know what my "side" is? Do you know where I stand on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan? Do you know who I voted for to be President? Do you want to know those answers? Or do you want to just keep guessing and putting me in a group because that is the easy way out.

    I've already stated what would need to be done for me to support UHC.

    You still haven't answered why you called me out specifically. I did not say I was totally against it. I simply, once again, want controls in place.

    you know why i called you out. you are an antagonist in this thread. you seem to side with the other 3 posters every chance you get. you seem like a smart guy so i wanted to find out what you would have to say about that situation and if you had a one line reply about it or were you going to ignore it like everyone else did when i posted defense spending....your posts suggest to me that you want obama to fail, the same as rush and the same as those on fox news. there are people here who are anti obama and relish in his failures, the same as the teabaggers on here, and more often that not you align yourself with people like them.

    i do not care who you voted for or what your stance is on the wars. all i know of you is what you post.
    all i care about is progressing this country and moving forward and doing the greatest good for the most people.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,834
    Sometimes I think people are more concerned with alienating the "other side" then they are with discussing a problem.

    Ok, I lied...it's not just sometimes, it's most of the time.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • KDH12
    KDH12 Posts: 2,096
    mb262200 wrote:
    Isn't anybody concerned about the tax hikes that will come along with universal health care? If we are paying a 40 to 45 % tax, plus social security, then if your paying into 401K,what are you left with? Maybe 50% of your check? To me that is scarey. That will be a very altering lifestyle to many many americans who are already struggling to get by. Not to mention....if you take more money out of the peoples pockets, it can't help the economy much.


    not sure why you keep getting stuck on this issue becuase I do not think that your taxes would go up that high. Yes up a little but not to 50%

    you are listening to the fear that some preach to


    overall the fact that are system is fucked and people don't see it is proof that our educational system needs fixing as well.
    **CUBS GO ALL THE WAY IN......never **
  • aerial
    aerial Posts: 2,319
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    unsung wrote:
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    again you are blaming obama for the military budget. your side would destroy him and call him "weak on defense" and "soft on terrorism" and perhaps the republicans two favorite accusations of "not supporting the troops" and "providing comfort to the enemy" if he were to stop funding the wars. it is a political fight he is not going to take up right now because he does not need those attacks from your side in addition to all of the baseless accusations already leveled against his health care plan...suppose war funding were to be dropped. would you support universal health care then?


    Do you even know what my "side" is? Do you know where I stand on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan? Do you know who I voted for to be President? Do you want to know those answers? Or do you want to just keep guessing and putting me in a group because that is the easy way out.

    I've already stated what would need to be done for me to support UHC.

    You still haven't answered why you called me out specifically. I did not say I was totally against it. I simply, once again, want controls in place.

    you know why i called you out. you are an antagonist in this thread. you seem to side with the other 3 posters every chance you get. you seem like a smart guy so i wanted to find out what you would have to say about that situation and if you had a one line reply about it or were you going to ignore it like everyone else did when i posted defense spending....your posts suggest to me that you want obama to fail, the same as rush and the same as those on fox news. there are people here who are anti obama and relish in his failures, the same as the teabaggers on here, and more often that not you align yourself with people like them.

    i do not care who you voted for or what your stance is on the wars. all i know of you is what you post.
    all i care about is progressing this country and moving forward and doing the greatest good for the most people.
    The four you are talking about may have similar ideas, yet we do not agree on everything. What makes us different is we do not berate each other when we do have a difference of opinion. We listen to you and even though we may disagree with you and the other progressives, we treat you and the others that aline with you in a totally respectful manner when possible. Not all people in the TP hate Obama, but some do not trust him. We are human with different opinions just as you are.....so why are you always so hostile? Why would anyone answer you when You act as though you are the one and only person that knows all?....It would be nice if you could open your mind and heart show a little compassion & Respect for others. You might learn something new.

    Now in reference to the enlarged lettering...all you are saying here is he is gutless and does not stand behind his convictions. He made a promise to end the war and instead of holding him to his campaign promises you are making excesses for him...Why is that?
    “We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,055
    aerial wrote:
    The four you are talking about may have similar ideas, yet we do not agree on everything. What makes us different is we do not berate each other when we do have a difference of opinion. We listen to you and even though we may disagree with you and the other progressives, we treat you and the others that aline with you in a totally respectful manner when possible. Not all people in the TP hate Obama, but some do not trust him. We are human with different opinions just as you are.....so why are you always so hostile? Why would anyone answer you when You act as though you are the one and only person that knows all?....It would be nice if you could open your mind and heart show a little compassion & Respect for others. You might learn something new.

    Now in reference to the enlarged lettering...all you are saying here is he is gutless and does not stand behind his convictions. He made a promise to end the war and instead of holding him to his campaign promises you are making excesses for him...Why is that?
    i do not have time to make friends on here aerial. i am gruff and matter of fact and do not waste time with the idea that tax cuts will fix everything and that the free market will sort things out. and i do not give credence to the tea party because of their antics at town hall meetings and that most of them are, to put it kindly, uninformed...and most of them only became somewhat politically aware in november of 2008 when the same shit had been going on the previous 8 years... so i am sorry if my style and demeanor does not make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

    regarding the bolded part, did you read my post? or did you read it and not comprehend it? i am not making excuses, i am speculating as to his motives with everything that is going on in the big picture politically today. i said he signed it because of the firestorm from the right that would have erupted if he had let it expire. the things i put in quotes are assertions from the right that have been stated ad nauseum for 2 years now....these are things that have been said by prominent figures on the right, cheney, giuliani, palin, and the media outlet for the right called fox news. i think he chose not to take up this fight because he would be smeared in the press and i think his base is loyal enough to him to put up with another year of the patriot act in order for him to complete the iraq troop drawdown and so we can finish in afghanistan. i think his base will stay loyal enough to him because they would rather him be in office than any republican or tea candidate out there. cleaning up after your boy bush can not be finished in one year. one thing at a time....
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • aerial
    aerial Posts: 2,319
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    aerial wrote:
    The four you are talking about may have similar ideas, yet we do not agree on everything. What makes us different is we do not berate each other when we do have a difference of opinion. We listen to you and even though we may disagree with you and the other progressives, we treat you and the others that aline with you in a totally respectful manner when possible. Not all people in the TP hate Obama, but some do not trust him. We are human with different opinions just as you are.....so why are you always so hostile? Why would anyone answer you when You act as though you are the one and only person that knows all?....It would be nice if you could open your mind and heart show a little compassion & Respect for others. You might learn something new.

    Now in reference to the enlarged lettering...all you are saying here is he is gutless and does not stand behind his convictions. He made a promise to end the war and instead of holding him to his campaign promises you are making excesses for him...Why is that?
    i do not have time to make friends on here aerial. i am gruff and matter of fact and do not waste time with the idea that tax cuts will fix everything and that the free market will sort things out. and i do not give credence to the tea party because of their antics at town hall meetings and that most of them are, to put it kindly, uninformed...and most of them only became somewhat politically aware in november of 2008 when the same shit had been going on the previous 8 years... so i am sorry if my style and demeanor does not make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

    regarding the bolded part, did you read my post? or did you read it and not comprehend it? i am not making excuses, i am speculating as to his motives with everything that is going on in the big picture politically today. i said he signed it because of the firestorm from the right that would have erupted if he had let it expire. the things i put in quotes are assertions from the right that have been stated ad nauseum for 2 years now....these are things that have been said by prominent figures on the right, cheney, giuliani, palin, and the media outlet for the right called fox news. i think he chose not to take up this fight because he would be smeared in the press and i think his base is loyal enough to him to put up with another year of the patriot act in order for him to complete the iraq troop drawdown and so we can finish in afghanistan. i think his base will stay loyal enough to him because they would rather him be in office than any republican or tea candidate out there. cleaning up after your boy bush can not be finished in one year. one thing at a time....
    Antics like yours?
    “We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,055
    aerial wrote:
    Antics like yours?
    what are you getting at?

    no, i have never thrown tea bags at any government building or figure. i have never gone to a health care townhall and shouted down the speakers and spouted off about such ABSURD things as "getting your government hands off of my medicare" and no i have never held up a sign of obama as the joker or as hitler or stacked bodies from dachau with the caption "socialized health care dachau 1945"....

    now please, if you are not going to talk about the thread topic please stop quoting me and begging for a response...
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • unsung
    unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:

    you know why i called you out. you are an antagonist in this thread. you seem to side with the other 3 posters every chance you get. you seem like a smart guy so i wanted to find out what you would have to say about that situation and if you had a one line reply about it or were you going to ignore it like everyone else did when i posted defense spending....your posts suggest to me that you want obama to fail, the same as rush and the same as those on fox news. there are people here who are anti obama and relish in his failures, the same as the teabaggers on here, and more often that not you align yourself with people like them.

    i do not care who you voted for or what your stance is on the wars. all i know of you is what you post.
    all i care about is progressing this country and moving forward and doing the greatest good for the most people.

    I'm the antagonist? I said I wouldn't have a problem with it if certain controls were put into place. How is that being in any way an antagonist? I would have answered your question about defense but instead you assumed I am for the military budget that we have. You should have taken the time to know where I stand on that issue since you claim I'm the antagonist, but you admittedly stated that you don't care where I stand. Kind of hard to present a debate when you don't know the facts.

    No I don't want Obama to fail, because then the country fails. However I don't agree with most of his policies because he wants to spend money like it grows on trees. I've NEVER listened to Rush in my life. He is a blowhard much like Bill Maher. You want to cut defense? Fine by me. But I want cuts across the board, starting with a few choice programs I'd like to see reduced or eliminated. I'm sure I could find the funding without cutting the military budget pretty easily. I only want one person to fail, Nancy Pelosi. I don't use the word hate, but I hate her. The only other thing I hate is country music.

    Call me a teabagger if you want, I'd rather be that than a liberal or a neo-con.
  • OnTheEdge
    OnTheEdge Posts: 1,300
    KDH12 wrote:
    mb262200 wrote:
    Isn't anybody concerned about the tax hikes that will come along with universal health care? If we are paying a 40 to 45 % tax, plus social security, then if your paying into 401K,what are you left with? Maybe 50% of your check? To me that is scarey. That will be a very altering lifestyle to many many americans who are already struggling to get by. Not to mention....if you take more money out of the peoples pockets, it can't help the economy much.


    not sure why you keep getting stuck on this issue becuase I do not think that your taxes would go up that high. Yes up a little but not to 50%

    you are listening to the fear that some preach to


    overall the fact that are system is fucked and people don't see it is proof that our educational system needs fixing as well.

    Well, i'm just going by what every other country with universal health care pays for taxes. It seems a little naive to think that it would be any different here in the states.
  • chime
    chime Posts: 7,839
    edited March 2010
    mb262200 wrote:
    KDH12 wrote:
    not sure why you keep getting stuck on this issue becuase I do not think that your taxes would go up that high. Yes up a little but not to 50%

    you are listening to the fear that some preach to


    overall the fact that are system is fucked and people don't see it is proof that our educational system needs fixing as well.

    Well, i'm just going by what every other country with universal health care pays for taxes. It seems a little naive to think that it would be any different here in the states.

    Most people in the UK pay income tax at 20% as the average salary is around £25,000

    Starting rate for savings: 10%* £0-£2,440
    Basic rate: 20% £0-£37,400
    Higher rate: 40% Only paid on the earnings over £37,400

    We also pay National Insurance contributions that go towards pensions and unemployment and disability benefits which is about 11% for most people (although you may pay less if you pay into a separate pension fund)
    Post edited by chime on
    So are we strangers now? Like rock and roll and the radio?
  • brandon10
    brandon10 Posts: 1,114
    mb262200 wrote:
    KDH12 wrote:
    mb262200 wrote:
    Isn't anybody concerned about the tax hikes that will come along with universal health care? If we are paying a 40 to 45 % tax, plus social security, then if your paying into 401K,what are you left with? Maybe 50% of your check? To me that is scarey. That will be a very altering lifestyle to many many americans who are already struggling to get by. Not to mention....if you take more money out of the peoples pockets, it can't help the economy much.


    not sure why you keep getting stuck on this issue becuase I do not think that your taxes would go up that high. Yes up a little but not to 50%

    you are listening to the fear that some preach to


    overall the fact that are system is fucked and people don't see it is proof that our educational system needs fixing as well.

    Well, i'm just going by what every other country with universal health care pays for taxes. It seems a little naive to think that it would be any different here in the states.

    In Canada:

    15% on the first $40,726

    22% on the next $40,276 up to $81,452

    26% on the next $44,812 the portion between $81,452 and $126,264

    29% on any of the income over $126,264

    Note: notice the wealthy get taxed the same on the lower portion of their income as everyone else. Seems very fair to me.

    I don't see 50% anywhere here, do you?
  • OnTheEdge
    OnTheEdge Posts: 1,300
    I never said 50%. I believe we could lose 50% of our check after tax hikes, social security, and if your paying into a retirement fund. The few people that I have talked to about it have said 40% to 45%. One of them is on this thread. I do not know if that is based on pay rate. From what I have gathered so far, somebody working part time gets taxed 30%. Somebody working full time gets taxed more, like 40%. This comes from people in England and Canada.

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