what are your thought's on out-sourcing America

know1 wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

After the Gold Rush in California... when the mines dried up... the miners had to make a choice. Either keep being a gold miner and go to where gold mining is done... or get a different type of job.
Same goes here. If you want to work in a factory that makes plastic hairbrushes... you either need to go to China, where plastic hairbrushes are made... or go into a new line of work.
If you want the jobs that are going to illegals... uneducated, unskilled workers... you have to compete with them for those jobs... at the going market rate.

Amen. I've been saying things like this for years, but it's difficult to find anyone who will agree.

The playing fields and rules are VASTLY different, so it's not just as simple as you propose.

And the other thing you neglect, is the fact that people SHOULD fight to keep these jobs. What's wrong with that? Why throw your hands up and say, oh well....

cincybearcat wrote:

know1 wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

After the Gold Rush in California... when the mines dried up... the miners had to make a choice. Either keep being a gold miner and go to where gold mining is done... or get a different type of job.
Same goes here. If you want to work in a factory that makes plastic hairbrushes... you either need to go to China, where plastic hairbrushes are made... or go into a new line of work.
If you want the jobs that are going to illegals... uneducated, unskilled workers... you have to compete with them for those jobs... at the going market rate.

Amen. I've been saying things like this for years, but it's difficult to find anyone who will agree.

The playing fields and rules are VASTLY different, so it's not just as simple as you propose.

And the other thing you neglect, is the fact that people SHOULD fight to keep these jobs. What's wrong with that? Why throw your hands up and say, oh well....

I agree that people should fight for their jobs if they want them. But what is the definition of fighing - whining and complaining that they're losing their jobs? My definition of fighting is doing what you need to do to ensure the company will want to keep the job where it is. That might mean taking a lower wage.

Godfather. wrote:

he still stands wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

....Then what? Build and sell refridgerators that cost $2,752.67 ?
We would have to still compete with Chinese wages, right? How can you build a refridgerator in America... and compete with the Chinese? Make Americans buy American? Is that freedom?

tariffs, quotas, technical barriers to trade (refrigerators have to meet specification X), subsidies, other barriers to trade or "protectionism." I guess that is sort of "making Americans buy American."

Of course there is a cost to do this, to the consumer and the taxpayer (if subsides are implemented). But there would be more jobs available. For me, I'll pay the extra nickel so a few extra jobs are created. Certainly it is a trade-off between the "consumer surplus" and creating jobs... and the benefit/detriment is hard to determine.

+1

that's it and a great start it would also take political reform.

Godfather.

well I don't know... I am not advocating protectionism just saying it is an option if we want more jobs in the USA. I doubt it will ever happen because of the WTO, NAFTA and other trade orgs. Also, there is stigma of trade protection (by the voters) that it is regressive and archaic.

But since free trade really started going around the turn of the century, the USA has gone from an economy where we actually make tangible goods to an economy where you get rich quick off of quasi-ponzi schemes in the financial sector while most people work in the "service industry" making $5 latte's or sitting in a cubicle doing repetitive and meaningless tasks while their lives are wasted away under fluorescent lights.

If going back to an economy where tangible goods are produced is archaic and regressive... then I guess you can call me a luddite.

Before going Luddite, you must consider that the US probably produce more goods today than you ever did. The point is that technological development has made production much more efficient and in need of fewer hands. A lot fewer factory workers today can make a lot more than workers could previously. The consequence is the emergence of the service sector.

The question, as always, is what we're gonna do with that extra capacity we're getting. We could keep working hard at other things than production (which is what has happened) or we can cash it in in the form of better working conditions, more free time and so on.

The US is losing when it comes to manual labour. It is cheaper and just as good elsewhere. With transportation being as next to free as it is, it will be impossible to maintain the US as a big manual labour economy.

I just think it's kinda funny that free capitalism right wingers just totally switch sides when it come to the unavoidable consequence of movement of work across borders. Don't get me wrong, I think that less than full free trade between nations may be desirable for a number of reasons, but I think the thinks-they-are-right wingers should own up to their position being rather centre-left and at home in the "controlling capitalism's worst flaws" group.

Peace
Dan

Godfather. wrote:

I was listening to the radio(KGB FM in San Diego) this morning and the DJ sez the according a national pole 52% of Americans
don't think obama deserves a second term....sounds good to me.

Godfather.

so that means that Sarah Palin will be the next president? That makes my brain hurt just considering the possibility...

say what you will about Obama, but at least his policies are an ethos, dude.

We live in a technocracy... an increasingly complex world... and we have a good chance of being ruled by an ideological sportscaster who operates solely on her territorial domination/submission psychological circuitry. It is like General Patton has been reincarnated as a female basketball player from Alaska.

We will truely be led by the least among us. :?

Godfather. wrote:

did everybody eat a "have shitty day pill" this morning....I mean really lets all step back and take deep breath
.............AHHHHHH all better now ? you and truth both EZ guys everything will be OK first off I don't believe
Palin will ever be President and now that you have brought it up what has obama done to help our country so far ?........besides create a bunch of debt we tax payers will be paying back for generations.

Godfather.

Obama is a very intelligent man and I think he has flexible approach where as Palin is stupid and is rigid in her ideology. Shit, Obama was the president of the Harvard Law Review... Palin went to some CC in Alaska. I don't think that accomplishments and university status mean everything... but there is some clear distinction between these two people and their education and experience.

As far as Obama's accomplishments thus far... I don't know. He better get us out of Iraq as promised. Nobody knows what the results will be of the bailouts... and he was just continuing what Bush had started so there is no reason to think that another president wouldn't have made the same decisions. I would like to see fewer people dying because we want to set up satellite states in the middle east...

Godfather. wrote:

did everybody eat a "have shitty day pill" this morning....I mean really lets all step back and take deep breath
.............AHHHHHH all better now ? you and truth both EZ guys everything will be OK first off I don't believe
Palin will ever be President and now that you have brought it up what has obama done to help our country so far ?........besides create a bunch of debt we tax payers will be paying back for generations.

Godfather.

Here is a list, in no particular order, of 12 things the Obama administration has accomplished in year one. To be fair, I'll also list 12 negatives.

Positives:
1 - Removed restrictions on embryonic stem-cell research
2 - Ended the previous policy; the US now has a no torture policy and is in compliance with the Geneva Convention standards
3 - Attractive tax write-offs for those who buy hybrid automobiles
4 - Cash for clunkers program offers vouchers to trade in fuel inefficient, polluting old cars for new cars; stimulated auto sales
5 - Limited salaries of senior White House aides; cut to $100,000
6 - Ended the previous stop-loss policy that kept soldiers in Iraq/Afghanistan longer than their enlistment date
7 - Appointment of first Latina to the Supreme Court
8 - Instituted a new policy on Cuba, allowing Cuban families to return home to visit loved ones
9 - Closed offshore tax safe havens
10 - Negotiated deal with Swiss banks to permit US government to gain access to records of tax evaders and criminals
11 - Extended unemployment benefits and the Children's Health Insurance Program
12 - Made COBRA more affordable to allow continuation of health benefits

Negatives:
1 - Running up the deficit
2 - Declaring that unemployment would fall to 8 percent if his economic stimulus package was approved
3 - Allowing Republicans to frame the debate over health-care reform
4 - Subcontracting the legislative process to congressional Democratic leaders rather than playing a more active leadership role himself
5 - Failing to close Gitmo by year's end, as promised
6 - Failing to make a dent in the hyperpartisan nature of Washington
7 - Failing to win passage of financial-industry reform
8 - Delaying implementation of his promise to end the ban on openly gay military personnel
9 - The Beer Summit and everything that led up to it
10 - Increased troop levels in Afghanistan
11 - The Chicago Olympics
12 - Poor vetting of nominees

Eh, count me in as a Chicago burb resident who was opposed to a Chicago Olympics.



Back on topic:::

I just informed Carhartt that I placed my last order for their clothing. For years they made everything in the USA, then slowly that sucking sound from Mexico stole their manufacturing. It does seem however that they still ran some line made in the USA and shipped those lines to small stores and denim shops where the big box stores like Wal-Mart and Farm & Fleet got the Made in Mexico clothing lines.

Well recently they decided to stop supplying these small shops with the Made in USA lines and these shops would get what they were sent. In turn many of these shops dropped Carhartt. I just placed a $281 order for the last Carhartt branded items I will purchase, all made in the USA, a dying breed. I politely informed Carhartt of my decision and how I would spread the word and encourage others to do the same. American workers built this brand and were proud to be seen wearing it, that is no longer going to be the case. Carhartt is just another company that has no loyalty to the people who built it.