Michael Moore's 'Capitalism: A Love Story'

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  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    I have a question...
    Has anyone actually SEEN the movie? Is it out in the theaters right now?
    I mean, maybe it would be a good idea to actually see the movie (with as close to an objective view as you can conjour up) and comment on it's content, not it's messenger.
    ...
    I think I'll try to see it this weekend... if it is even out in the theaters.
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  • Cosmo wrote:
    I have a question...
    Has anyone actually SEEN the movie? Is it out in the theaters right now?
    I mean, maybe it would be a good idea to actually see the movie (with as close to an objective view as you can conjour up) and comment on it's content, not it's messenger.
    ...
    I think I'll try to see it this weekend... if it is even out in the theaters.

    i have to wait till the 5th November in Austrialia
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  • I love how Moore says how evil capitalism is while at the same time making himself incredibly rich on the backs of the masses that he so heroically fights for in his movies. :roll: He absolutely loves capitalism because it gives him the chance to become one of the wealthy elite by making movies bashing capitalism. It must be a great life.
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    MM188016 wrote:
    I love how Moore says how evil capitalism is while at the same time making himself incredibly rich on the backs of the masses that he so heroically fights for in his movies. :roll: He absolutely loves capitalism because it gives him the chance to become one of the wealthy elite by making movies bashing capitalism. It must be a great life.
    ...
    i have not seen the movie yet... so, it would be pretty fucking moronic on my part to comment on it... doncha think?
    So, what part of the movie, specifically, did you not agree with?
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • MM188016 wrote:
    I love how Moore says how evil capitalism is while at the same time making himself incredibly rich on the backs of the masses that he so heroically fights for in his movies.


    Um.. "on the backs?"

    How so?

    He makes his movies himself... and they're quite low-budget. Saying he gets rich "on the backs" of the masses suggests that he screws over countless people who do the work for him. And although he's been accused of selective editing, he's never been accused of unfair business or work ethics.

    He makes his money because he produces a product that people want. People like his movies.. they find them entertaining and informative. They find them thought-provoking. But he doesn't screw "the masses" over when he makes his movies.

    I get it that you don't want to admit he's got good points in his movies, but you're really stretching.
  • Jasunmark wrote:
    MM188016 wrote:
    I love how Moore says how evil capitalism is while at the same time making himself incredibly rich on the backs of the masses that he so heroically fights for in his movies.


    Um.. "on the backs?"

    How so?

    He makes his movies himself... and they're quite low-budget. Saying he gets rich "on the backs" of the masses suggests that he screws over countless people who do the work for him. And although he's been accused of selective editing, he's never been accused of unfair business or work ethics.

    He makes his money because he produces a product that people want. People like his movies.. they find them entertaining and informative. They find them thought-provoking. But he doesn't screw "the masses" over when he makes his movies.

    I get it that you don't want to admit he's got good points in his movies, but you're really stretching.

    have not seen the movie so i can not comment, but as far as the trailer goes it seems like it will be more of the same sort of stuff he has done in other movies (e.g. the I am here to get the peoples money back bit where he walks into a build with a money sack, the i am here to make a citezens arrest bit, standing in front of an office building ask a bunch of busy people as they exit an office question that they are not prepared to answer or dont have to answer). hopefully these are just their to be funny and not really used in any way to try and make his point, i hope when i watch this movie i learn something from it
    Rod Laver Arena - Feb 18, 2003
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    Adelaide Oval - Nov 17, 2009
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  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    have not seen the movie so i can not comment, but as far as the trailer goes it seems like it will be more of the same sort of stuff he has done in other movies (e.g. the I am here to get the peoples money back bit where he walks into a build with a money sack, the i am here to make a citezens arrest bit, standing in front of an office building ask a bunch of busy people as they exit an office question that they are not prepared to answer or dont have to answer). hopefully these are just their to be funny and not really used in any way to try and make his point, i hope when i watch this movie i learn something from it
    ...
    I'm going to hold on to my opinions til I see the movie, too.
    I have to really try to be objective... beause i feel that Michael Moore is the Ying to the FOX News types Yang.
    I also think those Wall street douchebags are the ones who hold the majority of the responsibility for the Market collapse. Then, trying to blame it on people who were sold the American Dream by schiester loan agents while they made billions, hand over fist. And the worst part... Americans buy it.
    So... I go in, pretty much mistrusting both sides... but, I believe i can make a fair assessment.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • If Moore made this film without mentioning the major role that the Federal Reserve plays into this corrupt system, his work is officially dead to me. His research would either be bullshit, or I'd consider him to be 'controlled opposition.'


    +1
  • g under p
    g under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,240
    Cosmo wrote:
    I have a question...
    Has anyone actually SEEN the movie? Is it out in the theaters right now?
    I mean, maybe it would be a good idea to actually see the movie (with as close to an objective view as you can conjour up) and comment on it's content, not it's messenger.
    ...
    I think I'll try to see it this weekend... if it is even out in the theaters.

    It comes out next week and I'll see it cause I like in the interview where he says capitalism is like a *ponze scheme* and there's some truth to that whether you lie that or not.
    And I think that this economic system that we have is an evil system. I truly believe that it is essentially designed to cause harm to people. It’s not an accident that this happens, because capitalism is, in its own way, its own Ponzi scheme. You know, we talk a lot about Bernie Madoff, and I guess he became a nice poster boy and a distraction from the real subject, but, in fact, capitalism, especially capitalism now as we know it, is a pyramid scheme, and it’s set up so that, again, the richest one percent sit on top of the pyramid. Their job is to convince everybody under them in the pyramid, all the worker ants, that they, too, could be at the top of the pyramid someday, when, of course, they know only a few people can sit on top of that pyramid. “If you just sell enough Amway, you can be up here with us.” No, that’s really not how it works. But it has worked for a long time, because a lot of everyday average Americans started believing this, this ruse that they, too, could be rich someday.


    And so, I just—I just felt like it was time to just go after this and name it and not be afraid to name it and realize, OK, I know all the names I’m going to be called and, you know, this, that or whatever, and, you know, what I’m going to, you know, be dragged through, but I just—I just am tired—it really is—I am tired of having to dance around this or deal with this symptom of the problem or that calamity caused by capitalism. I mean, I could keep doing this ’til the end of my life, and I don’t think anything is really going to change that much. And I’d like to see change in my lifetime. And so, I made this film to just kind of, you know, go for it and start a discussion and stop these people, who are just blocks from us, who right now are planning today’s moves to make life miserable for millions of Americans and people around the world.


    Peace
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  • Michael Moore, a man who has benefited and yes PROFITED from the free-market capitalist system as much as any "documentary filmmaker" has in the history of that genre belittles the very thing that brought him his accolades and fame. This could be the biggest comedy of the year.

    Trey and Matt need to riff on this one soon.
    So this life is sacrifice...
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  • Byrnzie wrote:

    Michael Moore is Fat. He needs to start pushing himself away from the dinner table before he is taxed for being fat. He also needs to come out of his Capitalistitic closet, as he's making a Capitalist profit off of his movies.
    The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated - Gandhi

    "Empty pockets will Allow a greater Sense of wealth...." EV/ITW
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    PearlJain wrote:
    Byrnzie wrote:

    Michael Moore is Fat. He needs to start pushing himself away from the dinner table before he is taxed for being fat. He also needs to come out of his Capitalistitic closet, as he's making a Capitalist profit off of his movies.

    Errm, o.k. :?
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Michael Moore, a man who has benefited and yes PROFITED from the free-market capitalist system as much as any "documentary filmmaker" has in the history of that genre belittles the very thing that brought him his accolades and fame. This could be the biggest comedy of the year.

    Trey and Matt need to riff on this one soon.

    Isn't it ironic - in your opinion: hypocritical - that someone who lives within a capitalist system can also stand up and criticize that same system? It's a bit like someone protesting the crimes of their government, like the war in Iraq, or the support of Israel. Rather than focusing on his arguments and asking whether he has a point, you simply point out that he's free to speak out, and that therefore he should shut the fuck up. IMO that's hypocritical.

    http://www.time.com/time/business/artic ... 56,00.html
    But aren't you really a model capitalist? You raise money. You hire people. You create a product and sell it to the public, bearing the risk and gaining the rewards that goes along with it.

    'Capitalism would have never let me be a filmmaker, living in Flint, Michigan with a high school education. I was going to have to make that happen myself. My last movie, I gave it away for free on the Internet: Slacker Uprising. If I were a capitalist I would not give my employees health insurance with no deductible, which I do, including dental, and paid pregnancy leave. That's not called capitalism, that's called being a Christian and someone who believes in democracy, so that everyone should get a fair slice of the pie.'
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Interesting:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2009/oct ... capitalism

    Michael Moore's anti-capitalist crusade

    The American film-maker has shocked many of his rightwing critics by revealing he is a practising Catholic

    Paul Harris - The Observer, Sunday 11 October 2009


    'Rightwing critics of controversial film-maker Michael Moore call him many things: a socialist, a hypocrite, unpatriotic – and they even make unkind remarks about his weight.

    But, with his new anti-capitalist film showing on US movie screens last week, Moore has unveiled an unexpected trump card against conservatives who so vociferously attack him: Christianity. Moore is a practising Catholic and has put religion at the core of Capitalism: A Love Story. Alongside the political arguments about inequality, Wall Street corruption and the failures of George W Bush, Moore argues that capitalism is also fundamentally unchristian.

    In the film he interviews several Catholic priests, who explain their belief that capitalism and the free market, by emphasising greed and the self over community, go against the Bible's basic tenets. One priest, Dick Preston, tells Moore: "Capitalism is evil, immoral and contrary to the teachings of Jesus." Moore also describes his own Catholic upbringing and includes a skit where free-market slogans are dubbed inappropriately – and hilariously – over scenes from a movie of Jesus's life.

    The tactic appears to have unnerved many on America's right wing, who are used to attacking Moore as a symbol of leftwing secularism. On a recent TV appearance on cable channel Fox News, Moore was interviewed by rightwing host Sean Hannity. Moore surprised Hannity by identifying himself primarily as a Christian, not a socialist. He then turned the tables and asked Hannity when he himself had last been to church and what the subject of the sermon had been. The exchange left Hannity unable to answer and was an instant hit across the liberal blogosphere.

    But many argue that the astonishment at Moore's gospel radicalism is misplaced. Though recent US political history seems to have been dominated by the rise of evangelical conservatism and its powerful grip on the Republican party, there is a parallel tradition of leftwing priests in America, especially with Catholics. "Catholics have always had a strong tradition in labour and union issues in America. There is not much in laissez-faire capitalism that is actually backed up by Catholic teaching," said Professor David O'Brien, a faith and culture expert at the University of Dayton, Ohio.

    Cardinal James Gibbons was a famous advocate of union rights in the early 20th century. Daniel and Philip Berrigan were brothers and radical priests who opposed the Vietnam war. The black civil rights movement was led by clergy, most famously by Dr Martin Luther King.

    Certainly the Rev Peter Dougherty appears to be in that tradition. Dougherty, who conducted the marriage service for Moore's sister, has known the Moore family for a long time and was happy to appear in the documentary. He lives in Michigan and has seen the devastation of local industry and unemployment that often seems to provide the motivation for Moore.

    Dougherty told the Observer he had no qualms about launching a religious attack on capitalism. "There have always been people who questioned basing a society on greed. That is what capitalism is. It is based on the greed motive, a radical evil. Moore's use of religious arguments in Capitalism: A Love Story also taps into wider issues happening at the fiery place where US politics and Christianity meet. Though the past few decades appear to have been dominated by religious arguments over abortion and other social issues, those culture wars seem to have died down a little.

    Among some evangelicals a strong environmental movement has grown up, seeing ecology and green issues in the light of religious arguments about conserving God's creation. Some churches and religious figures have taken a liberal stance on gay marriage. During Barack Obama's inauguration, openly gay bishop Gene Robinson gave a speech. The man who gave the invocation at the inauguration was Pastor Rick Warren, a leading evangelical. Though politically conservative, he has taken a leading role on issues of poverty, the environment and inequality.

    But close watchers of Moore should perhaps not have been surprised by his inclusion of Christianity in his latest movie. In fact, he has long been open about his religious beliefs and his admiration for the liberal tradition of political activism in Catholicism. He has said that as a child he considered going to a seminary to study to become a priest because he had been so impressed by the nuns who taught him at school. Dougherty, who loves Moore's films, even thinks the Oscar-winning film-maker may have missed his true vocation. "Michael is a great preacher," he said.
  • Commy
    Commy Posts: 4,984
    Michael Moore, a man who has benefited and yes PROFITED from the free-market capitalist system as much as any "documentary filmmaker" has in the history of that genre belittles the very thing that brought him his accolades and fame. This could be the biggest comedy of the year.

    Trey and Matt need to riff on this one soon.
    how else could he possibly get his message out?
  • VINNY GOOMBA
    VINNY GOOMBA Posts: 1,827
    Commy wrote:
    Michael Moore, a man who has benefited and yes PROFITED from the free-market capitalist system as much as any "documentary filmmaker" has in the history of that genre belittles the very thing that brought him his accolades and fame. This could be the biggest comedy of the year.

    Trey and Matt need to riff on this one soon.
    how else could he possibly get his message out?

    I don't know much about the creators of the Zeitgeist movies, but those have made their way around the internet quite a few times for free.
  • Brisk. wrote:
    People have been saying stuff like why is he then make a capitalist venture etc but I believe this could be answered with him being able to make more documentries like this and others, if he makes everything for free then he can't exactly carry on making doc's to create change.


    Or, maybe he's just a big fat hypocrite. :shock:




    ;)

    And a liar too. HIs movies don't depict the truth. The sad thing is that people fall for his crap.
    TDR
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,667
    Brisk. wrote:
    People have been saying stuff like why is he then make a capitalist venture etc but I believe this could be answered with him being able to make more documentries like this and others, if he makes everything for free then he can't exactly carry on making doc's to create change.


    Or, maybe he's just a big fat hypocrite. :shock:




    ;)

    And a liar too. HIs movies don't depict the truth. The sad thing is that people fall for his crap.

    people attack him for being fat or a hypocrate because they have nothing else on him. have you seen his movies? they may not depict YOUR reality in pennsylvania, but in places like detroit and flint, they are pretty accurate. how can you say it is not the truth if you do not live there? name me 3 things that are not true in any of his movies. and don't give me any BS from a gun lobby website, as we debated that ad nauseum on this board years ago and its a biased source. and also nothing from the current flick because i have not seen it yet.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    And a liar too. HIs movies don't depict the truth. The sad thing is that people fall for his crap.

    So what aspect of 'Sicko' was a lie?

    Also, what aspect of 'Bowling for Columbine' was a lie?
  • Smellyman
    Smellyman Asia Posts: 4,528
    Byrnzie wrote:
    And a liar too. HIs movies don't depict the truth. The sad thing is that people fall for his crap.

    So what aspect of 'Sicko' was a lie?

    Also, what aspect of 'Bowling for Columbine' was a lie?

    it's much easier to just say he lies...

    Don't expect examples.