"Love ain't love until you give it up"

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Comments

  • slightofjeff
    slightofjeff Posts: 7,762
    decides2dream wrote:
    also, in regards to force of nature and the exorcise/exercise bit....makes perfect sense to me...


    Understand she’s a force of nature
    Contraband hiding deep inside her soul
    Exorcising her will to lose control
    She lets go




    why would she be 'exercising' her will to lose control......exorcising fits far better. she has 'contraband'....which what consititutes spiritual contraband is another thought entirely ;)....but if she is exorcising, meaning....getting the demons out of her will.....to lose control....makes more sense to me. the words/meanings 'fit' far better than 'exercise.'

    I agree totally. I love Ed's use of homophones. He does this quite a lot, using two words that sound the same, but you can't really tell the difference unless you look at the liner notes. Another prime example is "I Am Mine" -- did you know, according to the official lyrics, he toggles back and forth between the "innocence" lost at one time and the "innocents" lost at one time? Those two words don't exactly mean the same thing. Stuff like that is so cool to me.

    (Another example: Violins/violence in Daughter)

    Anyway, back to exorcising and excercising ... I think excercising would work under some interpretations. If you believe the woman in this song, say, has a drug problem ... exercising her will to lose control means she's, you know, losing control. Out on a bender again.

    I think maybe the verb "excorcising" might refer to the man (the lighthouse) in this song. He's trying to rid her of this will to lose control.
    everybody wants the most they can possibly get
    for the least they could possibly do
  • decides2dream
    decides2dream Posts: 14,977
    slightofjeff wrote:
    decides2dream wrote:
    also, in regards to force of nature and the exorcise/exercise bit....makes perfect sense to me...


    Understand she’s a force of nature
    Contraband hiding deep inside her soul
    Exorcising her will to lose control
    She lets go




    why would she be 'exercising' her will to lose control......exorcising fits far better. she has 'contraband'....which what consititutes spiritual contraband is another thought entirely ;)....but if she is exorcising, meaning....getting the demons out of her will.....to lose control....makes more sense to me. the words/meanings 'fit' far better than 'exercise.'

    I agree totally. I love Ed's use of homophones. He does this quite a lot, using two words that sound the same, but you can't really tell the difference unless you look at the liner notes. Another prime example is "I Am Mine" -- did you know, according to the official lyrics, he toggles back and forth between the "innocence" lost at one time and the "innocents" lost at one time? Those two words don't exactly mean the same thing. Stuff like that is so cool to me.

    (Another example: Violins/violence in Daughter)

    Anyway, back to exorcising and excercising ... I think excercising would work under some interpretations. If you believe the woman in this song, say, has a drug problem ... exercising her will to lose control means she's, you know, losing control. Out on a bender again.

    I think maybe the verb "excorcising" might refer to the man (the lighthouse) in this song. He's trying to rid her of this will to lose control.



    i think i might be fallin' for ya jeff.....you lyric geek. ;) :geek:
    oh and homophones (and actually knowing/remembering that's what they're called) sexxxy. :twisted:



    hahahahaha.
    seriously, i LOVE this stuff!
    i think you might be even 'more' into dissecting lyrics/meanings than i am.....you definitely look for more concrete *answers*...but still.....most enjoyable!



    btw - while i'd not have been able to pull it outta memory, since you mention it...yes, i do recall that for i am mine. :)
    Stay with me...
    Let's just breathe...


    I am myself like you somehow


  • Stephen Flow
    Stephen Flow Posts: 3,327
    I can go w/ the whole jay-rolling thing... but the one part that bothers me is "put the shit in the whole"... does that mean put the shit (weed) in the whole thing? lol... like so the weed takes up all of the space inside the rolling paper? :lol:
  • PJStatTracker
    PJStatTracker Posts: 2,400
    I've been thinking a lot about the "dream the dreams of other men; you'll be no one's rival" line as well. It's probably my favorite line on the whole album, and I find that I want him to keep singing it over and over at the end of that song, even though he doesn't. I also struggle with its meaning...

    my current interpretation is that it's a statement of peace... That we should find common dreams and goals and work together to realize them. There are things in the world that are good (education, eradication of poverty, etc. etc.), and if we focus our energies on these dreams, we would have no rivals (a good thing)...I think its a hopeful line about finding commonalities and how great that can be.

    I'll probably decide it means something different tomorrow though...hahaha
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  • rebornFixer
    rebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    My view is similar to decidestodream's, I think ... "Love ain't no love till you give it up" could refer to giving up certain problematic behaviors or emotions, such as jealousy or a need to control someone's behavior ... In order to truly trust someone (and therefore love them), you have to feel secure enough to let them make their own choices, to give up attempts to control them, to "set them free", so to speak, and let them come back (if indeed they are going to come back). There are also echoes of this theme in Unthought Known, specifically the man/rival line.
  • slightofjeff
    slightofjeff Posts: 7,762
    decides2dream wrote:


    i think i might be fallin' for ya jeff.....you lyric geek. ;) :geek:
    oh and homophones (and actually knowing/remembering that's what they're called) sexxxy. :twisted:

    Lyric geek. That's a pretty good description. I spend way too much time thinking about this stuff than is healthy/normal. :D:D:D
    everybody wants the most they can possibly get
    for the least they could possibly do
  • norm
    norm Posts: 31,146
    "Love ain't love until you give it up" -- ev


    "Don't it always seem to go
    That you don't know what you've got
    Till it's gone" -- joni mitchell


    8-)
  • slightofjeff
    slightofjeff Posts: 7,762
    norm wrote:
    "Love ain't love until you give it up" -- ev


    "Don't it always seem to go
    That you don't know what you've got
    Till it's gone" -- joni mitchell


    8-)

    Are you sure that's not a Counting Crows line? ;)
    everybody wants the most they can possibly get
    for the least they could possibly do
  • norm
    norm Posts: 31,146
    slightofjeff wrote:
    norm wrote:
    "Love ain't love until you give it up" -- ev


    "Don't it always seem to go
    That you don't know what you've got
    Till it's gone" -- joni mitchell


    8-)

    Are you sure that's not a Counting Crows line? ;)


    if so they stole it from joni...and i couldn't name a counting crows line to save my life ;)
  • dimitrispearljam
    dimitrispearljam Posts: 139,725
    einatshaul wrote:
    Dream the dreams of other men – comes at a high point of the song, a top, exhilaration. It is an obvious positive for me, saying: Realize other people's Dreams, you'll benefit greater by doing that.
    As when you settle down, and your dream is a shared one, or say… Even with a band, creating a bond which all five can thrive on :)
    Dreams.. ;)
    "...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
    "..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
    “..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
  • slightofjeff
    slightofjeff Posts: 7,762
    norm wrote:
    if so they stole it from joni...and i couldn't name a counting crows line to save my life ;)

    Oh, they did. Covered that song. It was pretty much everywhere a couple years ago.
    everybody wants the most they can possibly get
    for the least they could possibly do
  • eddieved24
    eddieved24 Posts: 107
    Thanks for this tread, I have been thinking about unthought known for days now. I kind of see the song as kind of metaphysical, positive thinking. Like see that the universe is open to you, look on the positive side, don't get bogged down in negatives, see the endless posibilites in your life. Also kind of touches on the theme of using nature to your advantage and paying attenion to the natural world around you..." see the path cut by the moon for you to walk on.." , The end has been tricky for me to nail down as well. I think maybe it can be viewed both ways, Dream your own dreams, if you always follow others you will never really see your full potential. but more importantly I think he is saying. You are ( everyone is) the type of person that has amazing dreams and potential, don't sell yourself short, realize that we all have the same brain, we just condition ourselves with negative thoughts.
    all those paper plates......
  • imissyoualready
    imissyoualready Posts: 438
    Dont dream my dreams....believe me!
    Toledo '96, Cleveland '98, Columbus '00, Cleveland '03, Toledo '04
    Washington D.C. '04, London '05,Hamilton '05,Grand Rapids '06,
    Cleveland '06, Detroit '06,Pittsburgh '06,Cincinnati '06,Chicago '07
    NYC '08, NYC '08, Chicago '09, Chicago '09, ACL '09, Columbus 2010, Noblesville 2010, Cleveland 2010, Buffalo 2010.
  • I_GOT_no_IDea
    I_GOT_no_IDea Posts: 653
    imissyoualready wrote:
    Dont dream my dreams....believe me!
    have you had the one about the headless chicken in fishnet stockings too?
    Sydney 3 1998; Brisbane 1 2003; Sydney 1/2/3 2003; Brisbane 1/2 2006; Sydney 1/2/3 2006; Melbourne 1/2 2006; Adelaide 2009; EV Solo Sydney 1 2011.
  • PJammer4life
    PJammer4life Los Angeles Posts: 2,669
    I'm not the paper/I'm more like the fold/Cut the crease put the shit in the whole."

    When you want to cut something without scissors you can fold it and tear it off. He's not the actual letter (message) on the paper,but he is part that is cast aside..cut away(the crease), but the fold is necessary to get the letter moving and sent..maybe put the shit in the hole(not whole??) refers to mailing in a post box???

    OR

    The don't know nothing bout nothing could be that he isn't full of knowledge like a newspaper, but is just the fold along the edge
    Bridge Benefit 1994, San Francisco 1995, San Diego 1995 1 & 2, Missoula 1998, Los Angeles 2000, San Diego 2000, Eddie Vedder/Beck 2/26/2002, Santa Barbara 2003, Irvine 2003, San Diego 2003, Vancouver 2005, Gorge 2005, San Diego 2006, Los Angeles 2006 1 & 2, Santa Barbara 2006, Eddie Vedder 4/10/08, Eddie Vedder 4/12/08, Eddie Vedder 4/15/08, 7/12/2008, SF 8/28/09, LA 9/30/09, LA 10/1/09, LA 10/06/09, LA 10/07/09, San Diego 10/09/09, Eddie Vedder 7/6/2011, Eddie Vedder 7/8/2011, PJ20 9/3/2011, PJ20 9/4/2011, Vancouver 9/25/2011, San Diego 11/21/13, LA 11/24/13, Ohana 9/25/21, Ohana 9/26/21, Ohana 10/1/21, EV 2/17/22, LA Forum 5/6/22, LA Forum 5/7/22, EV 10/1/22, EV 9/30/23

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