Just listened to Backspacer on myspace...and...

Ledbetterman10 · September 2009

kiljoythemerciful wrote:

"Trim the fat" is something one of my writing teachers used to say basically saying remove whatever isn't of the utmost necessity to a story. Maybe some people like "the fat" and perhaps need it to feel like PJ is still, for lack of a better word, innovative.

I'm familiar with the phrase but I'm not sure what you're saying has been trimmed from PJ's sound. If anything, stuff like Speed of Sound and Just Breathe may be a little over-produced.

PJ Fan est. 1990 · September 2009

imalive wrote:

Ledbetterman10 wrote:

But it's hardly a step-forward creatively. But that's not to say that it's step backward either.

well then, WTF is it????? :shock: a step sideways?

I like the album a lot (I really do), but I'm not sure if any of the songs will ever make my PJ top ten...

yeah it's kinda like Rush's 2112, none of the songs on that album are great songs (except 2112), but the album is probably their best album in their entire discography...that's sort of what i feel about Backspacer after listening to it a few more times, but it's too soon to tell for me still

Ledbetterman10 · September 2009

imalive wrote:

Ledbetterman10 wrote:

But it's hardly a step-forward creatively. But that's not to say that it's step backward either.

well then, WTF is it????? :shock: a step sideways?

I like the album a lot (I really do), but I'm not sure if any of the songs will ever make my PJ top ten...

In a sense, it is step sideways. It's definitely a new direction so that's good I guess. But I don't necessarily think it's a better direction. But it's also not like I'm sitting here saying wishing for the Riot Act sound either. So again, I'm just indifferent toward Backspacer.

blondieblue227 · September 2009

To the op:
Well yeah it’s definitely different sound for pj. But I thought that on Avocado too and grew to like it.
Not that backspacer’s bad and I hate it.
the band can't keep making the same album over and over.

Ledbetterman10 · September 2009

knik wrote:

Ledbetterman10 wrote:

But it's hardly a step-forward creatively. But that's not to say that it's step backward either.

Just curious, what would you consider a "step-forward creatively"? I hear this frequently that there is no new creative step in Backspacer but I hear a lot of new things on this record that PJ have not done before. Sure, they don't have the rock opera kind of arrangements that Muse have or more sampled sounds like Radiohead or hip-hop collaborations like Cornell (thank god), but they do sound good in a way that they have not sounded before. That is a step forward, don't you think?

Still waiting for the Eddie Vedder-penned rock-opera I guess. I dunno. There's a lot of cool things employed over the years by various bands that Pearl Jam NEVER does. There's not one instrumental on a PJ album. Not once is there an instance where one song crossfades right into another. There's never any songs that have various stages to them (a la Paranoid Android or several Zeppelin songs). Never are there any non-musical overdubs (save for the whips on Satan's Bed and the barking dog on Rival). It's just seems to me that they played it really close to the belt on Backspacer and went with "what works".

Adm. Glen Scotia · September 2009

Ledbetterman10 wrote:

knik wrote:

Ledbetterman10 wrote:

But it's hardly a step-forward creatively. But that's not to say that it's step backward either.

Just curious, what would you consider a "step-forward creatively"? I hear this frequently that there is no new creative step in Backspacer but I hear a lot of new things on this record that PJ have not done before. Sure, they don't have the rock opera kind of arrangements that Muse have or more sampled sounds like Radiohead or hip-hop collaborations like Cornell (thank god), but they do sound good in a way that they have not sounded before. That is a step forward, don't you think?

Still waiting for the Eddie Vedder-penned rock-opera I guess. I dunno. There's a lot of cool things employed over the years by various bands that Pearl Jam NEVER does. There's not one instrumental on a PJ album. Not once is there an instance where one song crossfades right into another. There's never any songs that have various stages to them (a la Paranoid Android or several Zeppelin songs). Never are there any non-musical overdubs (save for the whips on Satan's Bed and the barking dog on Rival). It's just seems to me that they played it really close to the belt on Backspacer and went with "what works".

I would agree with a lot of what you said. I look at stuff Radiohead has done, and particularly at Green Day's American Idiot, and fantasize about PJ doing something like it. As for non-musical overdubs, I can't figure out why someone would want such a thing. I buy PJ albums for the music. I get non-musical overdubs on my daily subway commute

Present tense has two distinct musical sections. Inside Job has several distinct sections... it was almost a progressive rock piece, and was totally unlike any PJ tune prior. I agree they can do more experimenting, but no two albums have sound the same. The fact that we can point to a song and say, "That sounds like No Code, that sound like Yield, etc" demonstrates this point perfectly.

Adm. Glen Scotia · September 2009

Ledbetterman10 wrote:

Adm. Glen Scotia wrote:

They got into a rhythm for a while wherein you'd pop in a new album and say, "Okay, here's a PJ 'rocker', and here's the 'ballad.' This is the sensitive acoustic track. Now we have the mid-tempo experimental thingy"

But that's EXACTLY what Backspacer is! I like the album. There's nothing wrong with it. But it's hardly a step-forward creatively. But that's not to say that it's step backward either.

We'll have to agree to disagree. It's not the giant leap that, say, No Code was, but compared to the last three albums (with the exception of around half a dozen tracks) I'd say it's a pretty big step. Certainly, at the very least, it's the closest they may ever come to a "pop" record.

Evolver · September 2009

yield2me wrote:

You have to realize that this band will never make the same album twice. Those people that just want that "ten" sound won't get it again. Accept that, and then go listen again.

Well that would be true, if the OP said anything about wanting all PJ albums to sound like Ten, but they didn't. I think they made some very good points about the album, and even though we often expect something different from the band with each album, no matter what it is not uncommon to still have a hard time (at least initially) digesting some aspects of it. And that's what this person is saying. And I also feel that they're implying that they're giving it the benefit of the doubt, or in other words are going to give it some time to grow on them (which I'm sure it will).

Ledbetterman10 · September 2009

Adm. Glen Scotia wrote:

I would agree with a lot of what you said. I look at stuff Radiohead has done, and particularly at Green Day's American Idiot, and fantasize about PJ doing something like it. As for non-musical overdubs, I can't figure out why someone would want such a thing. I buy PJ albums for the music. I get non-musical overdubs on my daily subway commute

Well by non-musical overdubs, I mean stuff like the presidential speeches in Cult of Personality by Living Colour or the helicopters on The Wall. I'm not suggesting they stop the music to talk.

Adm. Glen Scotia wrote:

Present tense has two distinct musical sections. Inside Job has several distinct sections... it was almost a progressive rock piece, and was totally unlike any PJ tune prior. I agree they can do more experimenting, but no two albums have sound the same. The fact that we can point to a song and say, "That sounds like No Code, that sound like Yield, etc" demonstrates this point perfectly.

I agree with this.

Adm. Glen Scotia wrote:

Ledbetterman10 wrote:

Adm. Glen Scotia wrote:

They got into a rhythm for a while wherein you'd pop in a new album and say, "Okay, here's a PJ 'rocker', and here's the 'ballad.' This is the sensitive acoustic track. Now we have the mid-tempo experimental thingy"

But that's EXACTLY what Backspacer is! I like the album. There's nothing wrong with it. But it's hardly a step-forward creatively. But that's not to say that it's step backward either.

We'll have to agree to disagree. It's not the giant leap that, say, No Code was, but compared to the last three albums (with the exception of around half a dozen tracks) I'd say it's a pretty big step. Certainly, at the very least, it's the closest they may ever come to a "pop" record.

Yeah I don't dispute that it's a big leap. I just don't necessarily think it's a leap forward....though I like the album. But for my tastes, I'm hoping that there's no The Fixer-type songs on future records

Evolver · September 2009

PJ Fan est. 1990 wrote:

oh and Speed of Sound is just HORRIBLE! i hope they play the demo version when live...the main problem with the album version is that the drums seem almost out of sync and overpowering...and the fills seem to be in awkward places...i don't think Matt did the drums to that...

I also wanted to comment on this point too - in that at least to a certain extent I agree. Now while I wouldn't go as far as to say it's horrible, I will say that compared to the demo version, I think most people agree that it doesn't hold a candle. And in particular, I agree with the drumming aspect of these comments, 100%. That stood out to me BIGTIME, just seemed like this song needed a more airy, atmospheric drumming/percussion, something that more closely followed the rhythmic pattern of the acoustic guitar in the demo. IMO the drumming that was used came off corny took away from the overall atmosphere of the track. To sum it up, here's some food for thought: imagine the demo version (Ed's vocal's/vocal layering & acoustic guitar), some light McCready solo sprinkled in (similar to the e-bow work Ed did on the demo), a soft Ament bassline, AND some creative light percussion/cymbol work like Dave A. would have done back in the day (a la "Indifference"), most importantly keeping with the odd time/tempo of Ed's guitar work.

Adm. Glen Scotia · September 2009

Ledbetterman10 wrote:

Adm. Glen Scotia wrote:

I would agree with a lot of what you said. I look at stuff Radiohead has done, and particularly at Green Day's American Idiot, and fantasize about PJ doing something like it. As for non-musical overdubs, I can't figure out why someone would want such a thing. I buy PJ albums for the music. I get non-musical overdubs on my daily subway commute

Well by non-musical overdubs, I mean stuff like the presidential speeches in Cult of Personality by Living Colour or the helicopters on The Wall. I'm not suggesting they stop the music to talk.

I know.

Those things are okay, but, as I said, it's not something I look for when I buy a record. That's all.

bigbadbill · September 2009

I'm waiting for either my 10C to get here in the mail tomorrow, or just buying the album on Sunday and listening that way, than simply hearing it for the first time off myspace.

slightofjeff · September 2009

Ledbetterman10 wrote:

knik wrote:

Ledbetterman10 wrote:

But it's hardly a step-forward creatively. But that's not to say that it's step backward either.

Just curious, what would you consider a "step-forward creatively"? I hear this frequently that there is no new creative step in Backspacer but I hear a lot of new things on this record that PJ have not done before. Sure, they don't have the rock opera kind of arrangements that Muse have or more sampled sounds like Radiohead or hip-hop collaborations like Cornell (thank god), but they do sound good in a way that they have not sounded before. That is a step forward, don't you think?

Still waiting for the Eddie Vedder-penned rock-opera I guess. I dunno. There's a lot of cool things employed over the years by various bands that Pearl Jam NEVER does. There's not one instrumental on a PJ album.

Except for Aye Davanita. And Hummus. And possibly you could count The Colour Red.

As for your other examples of experimentation ... not all of that is such a good thing. There are only so many weird-ass songs one band can produce. Help, Help is a fine song ... but at some point those inaccessible songs can get tedious. That's where the "trim the fat" thing comes in ... seems with this album, if any song felt like
"homework" as Ed put it, they scrapped it and went on to something more immediate.

I wouldn't want every Pearl Jam album to work that way. But when you've got a catalogue of Help, Helps
and Who You Ares, etc ... you're allowed to make one album that's easy. Sometimes, straightfoward is the way to go.

Ledbetterman10 · September 2009

slightofjeff wrote:

Except for Aye Davanita. And Hummus. And possibly you could count The Colour Red.

As for your other examples of experimentation ... not all of that is such a good thing. There are only so many weird-ass songs one band can produce. Help, Help is a fine song ... but at some point those inaccessible songs can get tedious. That's where the "trim the fat" thing comes in ... seems with this album, if any song felt like
"homework" as Ed put it, they scrapped it and went on to something more immediate.

I wouldn't want every Pearl Jam album to work that way. But when you've got a catalogue of Help, Helps
and Who You Ares, etc ... you're allowed to make one album that's easy. Sometimes, straightfoward is the way to go.

There's vocalization in Aye Davanita and he sings the same line over and over in Colour red. Hummus is I guess the closest thing but that's a secret track. But enough about instrumentals....

You are allowed to make one album that's "easy". But this just doesn't seem very inspired. Like I've said, I like it. It's not bad by any means. But it's not great either. It's just good....which is all I ask for anyway.

slightofjeff · September 2009

Ledbetterman10 wrote:

slightofjeff wrote:

Except for Aye Davanita. And Hummus. And possibly you could count The Colour Red.

As for your other examples of experimentation ... not all of that is such a good thing. There are only so many weird-ass songs one band can produce. Help, Help is a fine song ... but at some point those inaccessible songs can get tedious. That's where the "trim the fat" thing comes in ... seems with this album, if any song felt like
"homework" as Ed put it, they scrapped it and went on to something more immediate.

I wouldn't want every Pearl Jam album to work that way. But when you've got a catalogue of Help, Helps
and Who You Ares, etc ... you're allowed to make one album that's easy. Sometimes, straightfoward is the way to go.

There's vocalization in Aye Davanita and he sings the same line over and over in Colour red. Hummus is I guess the closest thing but that's a secret track. But enough about instrumentals....

You are allowed to make one album that's "easy". But this just doesn't seem very inspired. Like I've said, I like it. It's not bad by any means. But it's not great either. It's just good....which is all I ask for anyway.

Your opinion isn't far-fetched. It's fair enough.

I just don't need an album to feel like homework for it to be great, is all.

Better Dan · September 2009

yield2me wrote:

You have to realize that this band will never make the same album twice. Those people that just want that "ten" sound won't get it again. Accept that, and then go listen again.

Why is it that anytime someone doesn't like the band's new record people assume they want the "ten" sound again?

Ledbetterman10 · September 2009

slightofjeff wrote:

Ledbetterman10 wrote:

slightofjeff wrote:

Except for Aye Davanita. And Hummus. And possibly you could count The Colour Red.

As for your other examples of experimentation ... not all of that is such a good thing. There are only so many weird-ass songs one band can produce. Help, Help is a fine song ... but at some point those inaccessible songs can get tedious. That's where the "trim the fat" thing comes in ... seems with this album, if any song felt like
"homework" as Ed put it, they scrapped it and went on to something more immediate.

I wouldn't want every Pearl Jam album to work that way. But when you've got a catalogue of Help, Helps
and Who You Ares, etc ... you're allowed to make one album that's easy. Sometimes, straightfoward is the way to go.

There's vocalization in Aye Davanita and he sings the same line over and over in Colour red. Hummus is I guess the closest thing but that's a secret track. But enough about instrumentals....

You are allowed to make one album that's "easy". But this just doesn't seem very inspired. Like I've said, I like it. It's not bad by any means. But it's not great either. It's just good....which is all I ask for anyway.

Your opinion isn't far-fetched. It's fair enough.

I just don't need an album to feel like homework for it to be great, is all.

See I don't really get this 'homework' line. I think that you're implying that something doesn't have to be "complicated" to be good (which I agree with) but it's not like Avocado is a very challenging record. Again, I don't really know what you mean with this.

PL209307 · September 2009

I have to comment this album is again different. Pearl Jam has always seamed to re-invent them selves without re-inventing them selves. You look at all the music these guys grew up on, they are following footsteps that have gone in the same direction. The Who, the LeD, The Beatles ( I know not as big) these bands have made a mark in history buy changing the way they make music. Inventing new sounds new lyrics. Every time PJ does something NEW, i always hear the same comments and reviews, it doesn't sound like Pearl Jam. The ones that are saying this, have not traveled down the road that the true fan has. Some of those albums that people where saying "this isn't the Pearl Jam I know" are know a staple on there ipods and listening stations. Vitalogy came out and all these people fell off the Bandwagon. I admit it, I was one who questioned the album but i listened and know seriously it is probably my favorite. The only hick-up i have with this album is the song speed of sound, the original we got for solving the puzzle is a ton better than the one that is on the album. The coolest thing about this album is supersonic this song rocks in the car full blast. "Just Breathe" is really cool, Eddies voice is something different in this one. The Fixer is good but I think it has lost a little spunk being played so much, I think once the new toy feeling wears off this one will become a fav. Amongst the Waves Very, Very cool It reminds me alot of presence tense and or given to fly kind of a love story with an image in his head, a short feel good movie. If you are questioning this album, lock your self in a room or your car and turn it up and feal the jam enter your soul. Peace out and see ya at the show

PL209307 · September 2009

maybe next time i will read my post and fix the spelling before i post. Sorry

kiljoythemerciful · September 2009

PL209307 wrote:

I have to comment this album is again different. Pearl Jam has always seamed to re-invent them selves without re-inventing them selves. You look at all the music these guys grew up on, they are following footsteps that have gone in the same direction. The Who, LeD, The Beatles ( I know not as big) but these bands mad a mark in history buy changing the way they make music. Inventing new sounds new lyrics. Every time PJ does something NEW i always hear the same comments and reviews it doesn't sound like Pearl Jam. The ones that are saying this have not traveled down the road that the true fan has. Some of those albums that people where saying "this isn't the Pearl Jam I know" are know a staple on there ipods and listening stations. Vitalogy came out and all these people fell off the Bandwagon. I admit it I was one who questioned the album but i listened and know seriously it is probably my favorite.

Nail meet Head

Just listened to Backspacer on myspace...and...

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