why I'll never feel comfortable with church...

Heineken Helen · April 2009

PJaddicted wrote:

Yes you are right....over a lifetime....ALL marriages defiantly have their problems, too many people bail the second the romance is gone, and the first problem arises. My vows 27 years later still mean the same thing as they did they day we married in a church. I am no longer a church goer, but said those vows to the man I loved then and still do today....it was a promise to him, before God and witnesses, we have both kept it.

OT...how are you doing darling???

That's so nice to hear... people in happy marriages don't speak up often enough

and it's not cos there AREN'T many... I know plenty of happily married people who HAVE stuck to their vows for better or worse... but 'unfortunately' they don't go on about it so people think they don't exist and every marriage in the history of TIME has been a failure

although in saying that, I come from a broken home :roll:

I know the majority of divorces aren't because of any little trouble (although of COURSE that happens and people don't put enough effort into making it work) but, if you CHOOSE to vow to stay with somebody for the rest of your life... and you chose to do it 'in front of God' and you then break those vows... well from that moment you're not really a member of your church anymore cos not all religions support divorce.

PM coming.

CHANGEinWAVES · April 2009

Heineken Helen wrote:

So... what exactly did he think his pastor was going to say to him? The same pastor who bonded them in marriage cos they ASKED him to and gave him those vows. Now they're having trouble he's supposed to just say 'ah sure it was all a joke'.

Marriages have troubles... people divorce... but who the fuck expects their pastor to validate it? It's NOT the church's problem... it's people EXPECTING the church to change to suit their circumstances. Most people know if you get divorce, you're practically leaving your church. Ah people are so fickle... what do vows mean to anybody?

Well considering she left him and the kids I think he thought he'd receive more support from the churh rather than being called the one damaging the marriage.

Heineken Helen · April 2009

CHANGEinWAVES wrote:

Heineken Helen wrote:

So... what exactly did he think his pastor was going to say to him? The same pastor who bonded them in marriage cos they ASKED him to and gave him those vows. Now they're having trouble he's supposed to just say 'ah sure it was all a joke'.

Marriages have troubles... people divorce... but who the fuck expects their pastor to validate it? It's NOT the church's problem... it's people EXPECTING the church to change to suit their circumstances. Most people know if you get divorce, you're practically leaving your church. Ah people are so fickle... what do vows mean to anybody?

Well considering she left him and the kids I think he thought he'd receive more support from the churh rather than being called the one damaging the marriage.

so the church at no time suggested counselling??? Or some way of rectifying the problem? The church isn't to blame here... but you go on about her mental problems... has he done his best to support her throughout? Cos it's as sick as cancer. I don't see why YOU'RE getting so annoyed with the entire church over one pastor's advice to one person looking to break the church's rules??????

I know you're recently divorced and I hope you don't take any of what I say personally... cos it's not meant that way... but why not post about this man and his troubles... rather than come up with a title that blames the church???

CHANGEinWAVES · April 2009

I never said I was annoyed with the church, just more so uncomfortable with the fact that they are his life and his support group and are not there for him when he needs them most.

I mearly mentioned she has mental issues, and he has taken all steps to help her through them. This is not a fly by night marriage and a lot of thought and pre marital counseling had gone into it as is required at this church. The first time she left him to live with another man he took her back and they did a year of counseling... With a Dr. And with the church. At this point I think he just wants to move on from the leaving and coming back that she is doing... I'm sure it's not good for the kids.

As for myself, yes I'm divorced but its not something I ever wanted or thought of. When I married I thought it was for life and was prepared to do anything to stay together. I have the example of parents who are together 46 years and have always loved each other, sure they had fights and difficulties but there was never an absence of love... Not once. With my ex, once I found out about his girlfriend, his drug addiction and the massive debt...let alone the fact he didn't love me.... I was STILL willing to try and I really wanted to. Sadly he was not willing. As I am now out of it and moving on I see how our marriage had no chance with out love... It would of crumbled again later. I couldn't force him to love me again. Sure marriage isn't always about love, but for me in order to bear the rest of life you need love to fall back on. With out that I became un happy and depressed... Inside I knew it wasn't right. The thought of raising children in a loveless marriage bothered me also after being raised in such a loving household. In the end I found the support I needed and just want the same for my friend.

Jason P · April 2009

I imagine most religious leaders are conditioned to try to protect the sanctity of marriage and preservation of family. If the pastor had told him to kick his wife to the curb he wouldn’t be doing his job . . . plus it decreases the population of the flock which doesn’t make logistical sense for a group that mainly depends on contributions of the congregation to exist. As well, the world is full of smart and dumb people, hence churches are full of smart and dumb people. Maybe the pastor is a dumb person masquerading as a vessel of god. There are lots of people with below average intelligence that hold positions that modern society consider significant and important.

But it’s hard to tell from my perspective what all the issues at hand are to give a good analysis. I don’t sense that this is a “Churches are Evil” case-point. As Jeffry Lebowski once said, “This is a very complicated case. You know, a lot of in’s, a lotta out’s, a lotta what-have-you’s.” Hopefully certain things will soon come to light.

decides2dream · April 2009

Jason P wrote:

I imagine most religious leaders are conditioned to try to protect the sanctity of marriage and preservation of family. If the pastor had told him to kick his wife to the curb he wouldn’t be doing his job . . . plus it decreases the population of the flock which doesn’t make logistical sense for a group that mainly depends on contributions of the congregation to exist. As well, the world is full of smart and dumb people, hence churches are full of smart and dumb people. Maybe the pastor is a dumb person masquerading as a vessel of god. There are lots of people with below average intelligence that hold positions that modern society consider significant and important.

But it’s hard to tell from my perspective what all the issues at hand are to give a good analysis. I don’t sense that this is a “Churches are Evil” case-point. As Jeffry Lebowski once said, “This is a very complicated case. You know, a lot of in’s, a lotta out’s, a lotta what-have-you’s.” Hopefully certain things will soon come to light.

very true.
i think we all know/understnd/sympathize with a marriage's demise, just that if you are asking for a religious leader to do so - a religion that does not condone divorce - it's simply a case of looking for some sympathy in the wrong place. of course, a pastor/priest can offer support to someone in pain, but when it comes to something in direct opposition to their religious beliefs....you just can't expect a different response. as i said earlier, if one truly wants unbiased support/advice in such a situation, go to a therapist, not a priest. there ARE LOTs of places that offer support/assistance, so plenty of other places to look outside the church.

Jason P · April 2009

decides2dream wrote:

very true.
i think we all know/understnd/sympathize with a marriage's demise, just that if you are asking for a religious leader to do so - a religion that does not condone divorce - it's simply a case of looking for some sympathy in the wrong place. of course, a pastor/priest can offer support to someone in pain, but when it comes to something in direct opposition to their religious beliefs....you just can't expect a different response. as i said earlier, if one truly wants unbiased support/advice in such a situation, go to a therapist, not a priest. there ARE LOTs of places that offer support/assistance, so plenty of other places to look outside the church.

Yup. Religion plays by a very strict set of rules with little wiggle room for interpretation. Hopefully the congregation will offer him the support that he and his children need. If not, I would suggest that he finds a new crew to boogie down with.

decides2dream · April 2009

Jason P wrote:

decides2dream wrote:

very true.
i think we all know/understnd/sympathize with a marriage's demise, just that if you are asking for a religious leader to do so - a religion that does not condone divorce - it's simply a case of looking for some sympathy in the wrong place. of course, a pastor/priest can offer support to someone in pain, but when it comes to something in direct opposition to their religious beliefs....you just can't expect a different response. as i said earlier, if one truly wants unbiased support/advice in such a situation, go to a therapist, not a priest. there ARE LOTs of places that offer support/assistance, so plenty of other places to look outside the church.

Yup. Religion plays by a very strict set of rules with little wiggle room for interpretation. Hopefully the congregation will offer him the support that he and his children need. If not, I would suggest that he finds a new crew to boogie down with.

well said!

why I'll never feel comfortable with church...

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