ed & co just don't have chris cornell's vocal range

Cropduster84 · March 2008

Eddie has a better voice, writes better lyrics, sings with more passion and generally isnt a sell out.....

redrock · March 2008

Though both supposed to be baritone voices, they are very different. I believe Chris does have a wider range and sings beautifully and Eddie's voice is richer. They are both beautiful voices and the past has shown us they complement each other wonderfully. I would love to hear them together again.

facepollution · March 2008

MrSmith wrote:

whats with all the chris cornell love? i dont know a soul who listens to him. just sounds like a good 80s rock voice to me, but he doesnt compare to Eddie. no contest

He sounds far more like 70's rock singers, for example Robert Plant or Paul Rogers. In the vocal skills stakes, he easily outstrips Vedder - but like I said before, Vedder makes up short comings with his tone, power, lyrics etc.

I've gone through this argument like a million times, the only way you can say one person is a better singer than another is if you look at things like power and range, anything else is subjective.

Ledbetterman10 · March 2008

suns rival wrote:

just listen...

http://www.gremmie.net/bsides/Birdman%20Sessions/Hunger%20Strike.mp3

you're making arguments based on the BIRDMAN SESSIONS?! it's Eddie half in the bag playing with a couple of sub-par musicians.

Mine · March 2008

Eddie is a natural baritone that learned to sing in a tenor range.
Cornell is a natural tenor that wasn't able to sing Eddie's parts in Hunger Strike. There's a interview from the time when he says that. They both learned to expand their ranges.

Eddie reaches very high notes from No Code on. Eddie doesn't hit them by screaming in the Cornell fashion and that makes people think he can't go as high.
There isn't a note Cornell sings that Eddie didn't. Eddie can go lower than Cornell though. It's a different approach to singing.

Mine · March 2008

facepollution wrote:

He sounds far more like 70's rock singers, for example Robert Plant or Paul Rogers. In the vocal skills stakes, he easily outstrips Vedder

You mean screaming like a monkey is having diner with his balls?

TheDreamIsee · March 2008

Range does not = better...I love both their voices but Ed's wins by a long shot for me!

facepollution · March 2008

Mine wrote:

Eddie is a natural baritone that learned to sing in a tenor range.
Cornell is a natural tenor that wasn't able to sing Eddie's parts in Hunger Strike. There's a interview from the time when he says that. They both learned to expand their ranges.

Eddie reaches very high notes from No Code on. Eddie doesn't hit them by screaming in the Cornell fashion and that makes people think he can't go as high.
There isn't a note Cornell sings that Eddie didn't. Eddie can go lower than Cornell though. It's a different approach to singing.

Cornell is a baritone, not a tenor. Some of the lower notes he hits are in the baritone range, and it is the lowest note that defines the singer, not the highest, the same as a baritone saxaphone, for example can produce some tenor notes, but a tenor sax can't produce baritone notes.

As far as Cornell not hitting a note that Vedder didn't - are you insane?! Are you familiar with his output? Vedder could NEVER sing a song like Say Hello To Heaven and nail all those higher notes. Why do you think there have been so many Vedder soundalikes, yet barely any Cornell soundalikes? Because those higher notes are very difficult for the average singer to reach.

Cornell is also not screaming, when he hits those high notes. He's in tune and has a lot of control over the notes. He's no more screaming than Aretha or Whitney or Mariah etc. Just cause it doesn't float your boat doesn't mean it's not a talent.

Mine · March 2008

facepollution wrote:

Cornell is a baritone, not a tenor. Some of the lower notes he hits are in the baritone range, and it is the lowest note that defines the singer, not the highest, the same as a baritone saxaphone, for example can produce some tenor notes, but a tenor sax can't produce baritone notes.

As far as Cornell not hitting a note that Vedder didn't - are you insane?! Are you familiar with his output? Vedder could NEVER sing a song like Say Hello To Heaven and nail all those higher notes. Why do you think there have been so many Vedder soundalikes, yet barely any Cornell soundalikes? Because those higher notes are very difficult for the average singer to reach.

Cornell is also not screaming, when he hits those high notes. He's in tune and has a lot of control over the notes. He's no more screaming than Aretha or Whitney or Mariah etc. Just cause it doesn't float your boat doesn't mean it's not a talent.

Cornell IS a sound alike. You said it a few posts before. It was the thing after Plant. As it was cool to sound like Eddie after 10. But Eddie always was a better singer than any of his sound alikes and by far. Eddie never screamed as Cornell. That's the easy way to hit a high note. Cornell alike screaming was not popular anymore by the 90s. Eddie's voice, even not at his best technically speaking, was the popular voice style in that period.
Cornell has a harder time in the lower register than Eddie because it's not in his natural range. Singers do that. Placido Domingo is a natural baritone who trained his voice so to be able to sing tenor. Eddie did the same after real singers warned him he was fucking up a great voice. He learned to sing with a wider range.

The bass register is the hardest to sing. Is basic singing theory. Every bass singer can sing tenor, with training. Not all tenors can reach bass. I've heard/read that a thousand times. Of course I'm not talking about extremely high notes but that's hitting it (=easier) not singing it (=harder).
Smile and Present Tense or Sad are not baritone range songs.

Cornell's screaming is style, not skill. Have you heard ITW? You don't record "The Wolf" without skills nor you do the rest like that but The Wolf is the more obvious one. Listen to the smooth passages from note to note. You do realise that the 3 octaves he uses on the album cover baritone and tenor, right? I would really love to see Cornell re record that album for comparison. Mostly because this is singing and represents various styles.
Cornell did say he couldn't sing Eddie's part on Hunger Strike and that was really not difficult.

Mariah doesn't scream unless you're talking about the whistle register, Aretha Franklin does something completely different, Houston is close to Aretha but without the strong gospel influence that is a different scream but Aretha is a soprano so in her hey day it was not a stretch to sing high notes. Tina Turner and Janis Joplin screamed but this is not all they did/do. Joplin who is notorious for her screaming could sing in a very soft soprano and a very deep alto and scream it all if she thought it fit the song. So does Tina Turner or to name some males the great Otis Redding. This are skills not just scream all over the place.
After Plant screaming high notes for male singers became the synonym to great singing. Well is not. This has nothing to do with skills. It's a widely emulated style.

I'm not bashing Cornell, he does have range and one of the strongest voices of his generation, but his skills don't even approach Eddie's. You can see that in subtlety not "wanking" as it's called. Good singing is really a complex notion that involves details many don't even notice. Is not all about the high note. Singing a melody like Guaranteed is not easy even though there isn't anything above high C in there.

HermanBloom · March 2008

Who cares? He's got a much better sounding voice. I'd take that over range any day. Mariah Carey has the most range, does that make her good?

The answer is no.

Mine · March 2008

nathanastin wrote:

Who cares? He's got a much better sounding voice. I'd take that over range any day. Mariah Carey has the most range, does that make her good?

The answer is no.

This is true. But Ed actually has better skills and a wider range than the average rock or pop singer. Not to mention resonance. With that instrument of his he could have had a career in opera if he wanted to.

muppet · March 2008

Mine wrote:

I've checked Beyond the Wheel on youtube.
I'm gona be hated for this but he sounds like he is trying to impersonate Eddie in that low tenor start and let me ad has a hard time doing it as he's barely on key.
I'm subjective here I don't like singes trying to sound like Robert Plant trying to sound like Janis Joplin.

Beyond The Wheel was recorded in 1988 so I assume Cornell had not even met Vedder then.

I probably enjoy listening to Vedder more than Cornell, but 'technically' Cornell takes the cake. He doesn't "just scream" and his songs aren't just how-high-can-I-make-my-voice-go wankathons.

Why do they even need to be pitted together? Both amazing singers and we're lucky that they collaborated on something as brilliant as Temple of the Dog. I don't see how if Vedder uses 3 octaves or whatever then Cornell is automatically a bad singer.

The Champ · March 2008

Mine wrote:

This is true. But Ed actually has better skills and a wider range than the average rock or pop singer. Not to mention resonance. With that instrument of his he could have had a career in opera if he wanted to.

A career in opera? Okay, now that's a bit of a reach

..

Mine · March 2008

muppet wrote:

Beyond The Wheel was recorded in 1988 so I assume Cornell had not even met Vedder then.

I probably enjoy listening to Vedder more than Cornell, but 'technically' Cornell takes the cake. He doesn't "just scream" and his songs aren't just how-high-can-I-make-my-voice-go wankathons.

Why do they even need to be pitted together? Both amazing singers and we're lucky that they collaborated on something as brilliant as Temple of the Dog. I don't see how if Vedder uses 3 octaves or whatever then Cornell is automatically a bad singer.

A version from '93 was pointed out.
The thread tittle invokes comparisons. 3 octaves is range (baritone, tenor,...). That's a quantitative measure not qualitative. I'm just saying Eddie has all the range he needs and above for his job.

Mine · March 2008

The Champ wrote:

A career in opera? Okay, now that's a bit of a reach ..

With proper training. His voice was appropriate for it.

facepollution · March 2008

'Mine' I'm not gonna quote every little thing you said because I don't want my response to take up pages! But I will comment on some of the points you made.

Eddie was a better singer how? Even he admits that his performances were OTT back in the Ten days, he was just as guilty of over-singing as Cornell back then, just not in the upper register.

Cornell was similar to Plant, but not the same. Check out a song like Mailman or Hypnotize ( http://youtube.com/watch?v=JkJCXPYcjlk ) he doesn't rely solely on his upper register, he just uses it for dramatic effect to match the intensity of the music at certain points. Cornell may not be able to sing as comfortably in his lower register as Vedder, but then Vedder can't touch the higher notes with Cornell's power either. Check out Cornell's Euphoria Morning album, no screaming to be heard there, yet some great vocal highs (and lows) - key song to check out is When I'm Down.

The Vedder soundalikes may not be as good to your ears (or mine) but that is becasue I way prefer Vedder's tone - which is a subjective thing.

Yes I own ITW, and I love the song The Wolf, but the high notes are falsetto so not really comparable to Cornell's upper register.

If a 'tenor' can reach bass or baritone, they are not a tenor, like I said, the classification comes from the lowest not the highest note.

At no point have I said I think Cornell is a better singer than Vedder, in any other way than his range. Like you've pointed out, Vedder has many other strings to his bow in the vocals department.

You might not see Cornell's vocal skill as impressive, and might just see it as screaming, but if you strip it down to what it is, it is essentially just the art of making a sound. It requires good breath control and, and control of the vocal chords - without these you will not be able to hit higher notes - that's why a lot of singers will crap out when they go for big notes. TOTD and Euphoria Morning show Cornell is an incredibly capable singer, with a great control over his voice, which in my view makes him a great singer.

The Champ · March 2008

Mine wrote:

With proper training. His voice was appropriate for it.

I'm not going to pretend like I know shit about opera but I have heard a few fat gals and guys sing opera and though Ed is very talented vocally, I don't think he would make it as an elite opera singer. Smoking just about killed that idea a few years into his career anyway..

meme · March 2008

Hi Mine and Facepollution. I just want to say I found your exchange really interesting and informative, even though you disagree.

moho · March 2008

Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:

Look up Cornell's performance of Hunger Strike in Argentina last year, and tell me it's not spot on.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=yEBwrtjusiM&feature=related

Ok.... I eat OFFICIALLY my words. That's incredible. I still prefer Eddie's voice, it's warmer, more passionate, more realistic and more intense. But this performance is certainly right up there with the studio version. He must have found his voice again because he couldn't do this for about 8 long years.

Mine · March 2008

facepollution wrote:

'Mine' I'm not gonna quote every little thing you said because I don't want my response to take up pages! But I will comment on some of the points you made.

Eddie was a better singer how? Even he admits that his performances were OTT back in the Ten days, he was just as guilty of over-singing as Cornell back then, just not in the upper register.

I agree. I said he was worst at the time

facepollution wrote:

Cornell was similar to Plant, but not the same. Check out a song like Mailman or Hypnotize ( http://youtube.com/watch?v=JkJCXPYcjlk ) he doesn't rely solely on his upper register, he just uses it for dramatic effect to match the intensity of the music at certain points. Cornell may not be able to sing as comfortably in his lower register as Vedder, but then Vedder can't touch the higher notes with Cornell's power either. Check out Cornell's Euphoria Morning album, no screaming to be heard there, yet some great vocal highs (and lows) - key song to check out is When I'm Down.

I agree. But this doesn't mean Cornell has a considerably higher range.
Cornell still fits tenor with all his range.

facepollution wrote:

The Vedder soundalikes may not be as good to your ears (or mine) but that is becasue I way prefer Vedder's tone - which is a subjective thing.

It's not if you consider Eddie can use his voice in many ways not just the stereotyped 10 and VS. style that was copied. As a matter of fact he sounds completely different on No Code and even Vitalogy already.

facepollution wrote:

Yes I own ITW, and I love the song The Wolf, but the high notes are falsetto so not really comparable to Cornell's upper register.

Cornell's is falsetto too it's just a different timbre.

facepollution wrote:

If a 'tenor' can reach bass or baritone, they are not a tenor, like I said, the classification comes from the lowest not the highest note..

This classification have sense in opera and other dramatic singing. Singers are categorized by the roles they are singing, or want to sing, regardless of the top and bottom note they can reach. They just need the range the role demands.
Maria Callas singed everything from contralto to coloratura soprano. She was the later.
Placido Domingo started out as baritone and than became a tenor by training. He is a tenor for the wide world.

facepollution wrote:

At no point have I said I think Cornell is a better singer than Vedder, in any other way than his range. Like you've pointed out, Vedder has many other strings to his bow in the vocals department.

You might not see Cornell's vocal skill as impressive, and might just see it as screaming, but if you strip it down to what it is, it is essentially just the art of making a sound. It requires good breath control and, and control of the vocal chords - without these you will not be able to hit higher notes - that's why a lot of singers will crap out when they go for big notes. TOTD and Euphoria Morning show Cornell is an incredibly capable singer, with a great control over his voice, which in my view makes him a great singer.

I'm not saying he is bad at all. I just don't see his absolute supremacy in any department above Vedder unless for a couple of notes. I'm almost sure that Eddie top to bottom has at least the same range as Cornell and his skills are better. The qawali think is beyond difficult to nail and he did it even live.

ed & co just don't have chris cornell's vocal range

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