why don't guys...

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  • harmless_little_f***
    harmless_little_f*** Posts: 8,005
    SoonForgotten2 wrote:
    See, I don't understand how you can separate the two.

    There's your issue then... of course you can.
    'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'

    - the great Sir Leo Harrison
  • Black Diamond
    Black Diamond Posts: 25,109
    SoonForgotten2 wrote:
    God, this topic... see here's the thing about us guys... for the most part, we're straight. Which means were are biologically attracted to women. For me this means, beyond the other person having a vagina, femininity. I think short hair on a woman can reduce that, depending on the woman in question, greatly. Now some women can pull it off and make it look really good while retaining all their femininity. Note that, this isn't soley limited to a hair issue, I have never found Kate Moss attractive because she has the body of a young boy (well, never mind her general mingin'ness).

    To me, as a man, anything leaning towards androgeny in a woman is not attractive. If they like to have short-hair, well all the power to them, but personally, I find it a turn-off. And really, I think it's just a matter of nature.

    You are right I have homosexual tendencies because I think short hair is hot

    http://images.askmen.com/galleries/actress/charlize-theron/pictures/charlize-theron-picture-1.jpg
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  • SoonForgotten2
    SoonForgotten2 Posts: 2,245
    harmless_little_f*** wrote:
    It's weird... You're arguing one thing but you sound like someone arguing the other. I can't believe you've made it into a gay/straight issue to be honest. But either way, your comments - or the way you deliver them - remind me of those who say heterosexuality is the norm for society and 'the way it should be', just because it's 'normative' or a majority.

    A girl being attractive for having long hair is no more instinctually, biologically or evolutionarily 'normal' than a man being heterosexual.

    I am arguing that the point of attraction is reproduction. Innately, it is. I don't care about whatever society says. I'm speaking in far more basic terms. It's not about normal or not, it's about what guarantees the survival of the species. Homosexuality does not accomplish that. Which to me personally, if fine. But if you want to talk bare bones about why men in general perfer certain attributes in women, it's gonna come down to nature. Breast size is the typical example.

    My only reason in bringing up homosexuality was to illustrate that attraction goes beyond choice or taste. There's a lot going on biologically. I'm sure nurture then plays a roll in specifics, but I believe to write it all off to just taste is ignoring the role of nature.
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  • Sian-of-the-dead
    Sian-of-the-dead Posts: 8,963
    SoonForgotten2 wrote:
    See my post *err above*, but yes, I believe it does... however less so if the man in question has bulging muscles. Seriously. The reactions I have had with short hair totally contrast that with long.

    Your post *err above* wasn't there when I posted.

    and btw, you're talking to the wrong person.
    I'm a heterosexual female and i've dated a couple of guys with long hair. Everything ranging from big burley man's man to short skinny guys with flowing luxury locks... they all had long hair. One had very long hair for a number of years (even had it braided a few times) and I actually found him more attractive before he shaved it all off. Oh and just for the record, he wasn't very masculine when I met him, before you jump in and say "oh but I bet he was really masculine!" :rolleyes:
    urbanhippie wrote:
    I totally get what J is saying. As a ragingly heterosexual woman, I still find it easy to appreciate beauty in other women. According to 'evolution' then I should find 'masculine' women more attractive, but the women I find most beautiful generally have long hair and exceptionally beautiful, curvy, feminine bodies.

    Agreed.
    Been to this many PJ shows: Reading 2006 London 2007 Manchester & London 2009 Dublin, Belfast, London, Nijmegen & Berlin 2010 Manchester 1 & Manchester 2 2012...

    ... and I still think Drive-By Truckers are better.
  • urbanhippie
    urbanhippie Posts: 3,007
    I'm just wondering whether cavemen ever tipped their stylist at Toni & Guy's....
    A human being that was given to fly.

    Wembley 18/06/07

    If there was a reason, it was you.

    O2 Arena 18/09/09
  • SoonForgotten2
    SoonForgotten2 Posts: 2,245
    Black Diamond wrote:
    You are right I have homosexual tendencies because I think short hair is hot

    http://images.askmen.com/galleries/actress/charlize-theron/pictures/charlize-theron-picture-1.jpg

    Charlize Theron has extremely feminine characteristics. It's not solely about short hair. If every woman with short hair looked like Charlize Theron, then maybe men in general wouldn't prefer long hair :p
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  • harmless_little_f***
    harmless_little_f*** Posts: 8,005
    SoonForgotten2 wrote:
    I am arguing that the point of attraction is reproduction. Innately, it is. I don't care about whatever society says. I'm speaking in far more basic terms. It's not about normal or not, it's about what guarantees the survival of the species. Homosexuality does not accomplish that. Which to me personally, if fine. But if you want to talk bare bones about why men in general perfer certain attributes in women, it's gonna come down to nature. Breast size is the typical example.

    How do you explain all the hundreds of African tribes for whom a shaved head and facial jewellery/body modification is the epitome of female beauty?
    'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'

    - the great Sir Leo Harrison
  • SoonForgotten2
    SoonForgotten2 Posts: 2,245
    Sian-of-the-dead wrote:
    Your post *err above* wasn't there when I posted.

    and btw, you're talking to the wrong person.
    I'm a heterosexual female and i've dated a couple of guys with long hair. Everything ranging from big burley man's man to short skinny guys with flowing luxury locks... they all had long hair. One had very long hair for a number of years (even had it braided a few times) and I actually found him more attractive before he shaved it all off. Oh and just for the record, he wasn't very masculine when I met him, before you jump in and say "oh but I bet he was really masculine!" :rolleyes:

    I'm not talking to the wrong person though, why do people have to internalise this? It was a question about men in general. I answer from my personal perspective and why I feel this is the case with myself and men in general. I was never saying anything about anyone in particular here.

    In case anyone hasn't noticed, the Pearl Jam fanbase isn't typical of the population at large. If it were, the world would be a much better place.
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    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/jmgphotos/4731512142/&quot; title="PJ Banner2 by Mister J Photography, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1135/4731512142_258f2d6ab4_b.jpg&quot; width="630" height="112" alt="PJ Banner2" /></a>
  • SoonForgotten2
    SoonForgotten2 Posts: 2,245
    harmless_little_f*** wrote:
    How do you explain all the hundreds of African tribes for whom a shaved head and facial jewellery/body modification is the epitome of female beauty?

    The women walk around topless

    :p
    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/jmgphotos/sets/72157600802942672/">My Pearl Jam Photos</a>

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/jmgphotos/4731512142/&quot; title="PJ Banner2 by Mister J Photography, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1135/4731512142_258f2d6ab4_b.jpg&quot; width="630" height="112" alt="PJ Banner2" /></a>
  • Black Diamond
    Black Diamond Posts: 25,109
    SoonForgotten2 wrote:
    Charlize Theron has extremely feminine characteristics. It's not solely about short hair. If every woman with short hair looked like Charlize Theron, then maybe men in general wouldn't prefer long hair :p

    Well that is kind of the point. There are so many different things that a man can find physically atractive about a woman, the least of which the length of her hair.

    I was lucky and married someone who is physically beautiful but it was her soul that got me hot.
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  • harmless_little_f***
    harmless_little_f*** Posts: 8,005
    SoonForgotten2 wrote:
    I'm not talking to the wrong person though, why do people have to internalise this? It was a question about men in general. I answer from my personal perspective and why I feel this is the case with myself and men in general. I was never saying anything about anyone in particular here.

    In case anyone hasn't noticed, the Pearl Jam fanbase isn't typical of the population at large. If it were, the world would be a much better place.

    *cough*hundreds of African/Amazonian tribes*cough*
    'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'

    - the great Sir Leo Harrison
  • petrocs
    petrocs Posts: 4,342
    I like women with short hair, long hair, medium cut hair...I love women
    Shows:
    9/24/96 MD. 9/28/96 Randalls. 8/28-29/98 Camden. 9/8/98 NJ. 9/18/98 MD. 9/1-2/00 Camden. 9/4/00 MD. 4/28/03 Philly. 7/5-6/03 Camden. 9/30/05 AC.
    10/3/05 Philly. 5/27-28/06 Camden. 6/23/06 Pitt. 6/19-20/08 Camden. 6/24/08 MSG. 8/7/08 EV Newark, NJ. 6/11-12/09 EV Philly, PA. 10/27-28-30-31/09 Philly, PA., 5/15/10 Hartford,5/17/10 Boston, 5/18/10 Newark, 5/20-21/10 MSG
  • harmless_little_f***
    harmless_little_f*** Posts: 8,005
    SoonForgotten2 wrote:
    The women walk around topless

    :p

    So you're a 'National Geographic boobs' man?

    Either way, it's obviously not about length of hair since, by your own reckoning, it's about reproduction. Boobs are about nurturing children, so are connected to reproduction. Hair length is not. It is a matter of cultural and individual taste.
    'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'

    - the great Sir Leo Harrison
  • SoonForgotten2
    SoonForgotten2 Posts: 2,245
    harmless_little_f*** wrote:
    So you're a 'National Geographic boobs' man?

    Well not me personally, but I'm sure if women in the west were walking around with their goods out, a lotta men wouldn't even realise they had hair.

    But I believe hair length is tied into the whole attraction aspect, it's part of the reproductive trap so to speak. It's functional in that regard. Now, if you can admit that men are attracted to breast size for an instinctual reason, well there are also plenty of men who love smaller breasts. Or don't mind what they size is. But the general perception is that men love tig ol bitties, right? It's the same thing. Just as man boobs aren't generally gonna be too helpful in pulling a woman.
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  • harmless_little_f***
    harmless_little_f*** Posts: 8,005
    SoonForgotten2 wrote:
    Well not me personally, but I'm sure if women in the west were walking around with their goods out, a lotta men wouldn't even realise they had hair.

    A comment further proving mine above....
    'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'

    - the great Sir Leo Harrison
  • Sian-of-the-dead
    Sian-of-the-dead Posts: 8,963
    SoonForgotten2 wrote:
    I'm not talking to the wrong person though, why do people have to internalise this? It was a question about men in general. I answer from my personal perspective and why I feel this is the case with myself and men in general. I was never saying anything about anyone in particular here.

    In case anyone hasn't noticed, the Pearl Jam fanbase isn't typical of the population at large. If it were, the world would be a much better place.

    and what i'm trying to highlight is that you're post is also internalised and your opinion.

    If it's a proven theory, please, show us! Produce some evidence to support your posts... There's enough posts in here to suggest the opposite.

    You were talking about how it's 'nature' and how men should find long hair attractive as short hair makes them think of men... this has been completely disproved as Jeremy1012 has said that he likes short hair and is in no way homosexual. I have also said that I liked long hair on men and I too, am in no way homosexual.

    They were examples. You don't like short hair on women, that's your opinion.

    There are a lot of men who find women with short hair attractive and I don't just mean us PJ lot.
    Sarah Harding from Girls Aloud is a firm favourite with 'typical' men and often appears in lads mags. To me she looks completely boyish, but that doesn't seem to put off the readers of FHM and the like...

    Please, correct me if i'm wrong?
    Been to this many PJ shows: Reading 2006 London 2007 Manchester & London 2009 Dublin, Belfast, London, Nijmegen & Berlin 2010 Manchester 1 & Manchester 2 2012...

    ... and I still think Drive-By Truckers are better.
  • SoonForgotten2
    SoonForgotten2 Posts: 2,245
    harmless_little_f*** wrote:
    A comment further proving mine above....

    Wow, way to take a joke way too seriously.
    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/jmgphotos/sets/72157600802942672/">My Pearl Jam Photos</a>

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  • urbanhippie
    urbanhippie Posts: 3,007
    Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me that short hair being viewed as masculine is a fairly modern idea and has very little to do with evolution. I mean, did cavemen have buzz cuts? I think not....
    A human being that was given to fly.

    Wembley 18/06/07

    If there was a reason, it was you.

    O2 Arena 18/09/09
  • SoonForgotten2
    SoonForgotten2 Posts: 2,245
    Sian-of-the-dead wrote:
    and what i'm trying to highlight is that you're post is also internalised and your opinion.

    If it's a proven theory, please, show us! Produce some evidence to support your posts... There's enough posts in here to suggest the opposite.

    You were talking about how it's 'nature' and how men should find long hair attractive as short hair makes them think of men... this has been completely disproved as Jeremy1012 has said that he likes short hair and is in no way homosexual. I have also said that I liked long hair on men and I too, am in no way homosexual.

    They were examples. You don't like short hair on women, that's your opinion.

    There are a lot of men who find women with short hair attractive and I don't just mean us PJ lot.
    Sarah Harding from Girls Aloud is a firm favourite with 'typical' men and often appears in lads mags. To me she looks completely boyish, but that doesn't seem to put off the readers of FHM and the like...

    Please, correct me if i'm wrong?

    The OP was asking about men in general. Again, I tried to offer an explanation from my pov. Male peacocks have plumage to attract the female, despite the fact that it plays no role in reproduction otherwise. The only reason I brought up homosexuality, was to illustrate why I do not believe attraction is necessarily a matter of choice. Our biology plays a huge role in it.
    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/jmgphotos/sets/72157600802942672/">My Pearl Jam Photos</a>

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/jmgphotos/4731512142/&quot; title="PJ Banner2 by Mister J Photography, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1135/4731512142_258f2d6ab4_b.jpg&quot; width="630" height="112" alt="PJ Banner2" /></a>
  • Sian-of-the-dead
    Sian-of-the-dead Posts: 8,963
    SoonForgotten2 wrote:
    The OP was asking about men in general. Again, I tried to offer an explanation from my pov. Male peacocks have plumage to attract the female, despite the fact that it plays no role in reproduction otherwise. The only reason I brought up homosexuality, was to illustrate why I do not believe attraction is necessarily a matter of choice. Our biology plays a huge role in it.

    I can see what your saying but several posts disprove your theory :)

    As it's been said, everyone is different.
    Been to this many PJ shows: Reading 2006 London 2007 Manchester & London 2009 Dublin, Belfast, London, Nijmegen & Berlin 2010 Manchester 1 & Manchester 2 2012...

    ... and I still think Drive-By Truckers are better.

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