How good is Heath Ledger in the Dark Knight

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  • Porchsitter
    Porchsitter Loganville, GA Posts: 1,091
    I would say he portrays one of the most convincing psychopaths on screen since Hopkin's Hannibal Lechter.
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  • Rygar
    Rygar Posts: 8,711
    facepollution wrote:
    I think Christian Bale is a wicked actor though, and absolutely the best Batman.

    I agree. Too bad he was just arrested for alleged assault on his mother and sister.
  • facepollution
    facepollution Posts: 6,834
    Rygar wrote:
    I agree. Too bad he was just arrested for alleged assault on his mother and sister.

    and I thought you were kidding.......

    From the press I've seen him do for Dark Knight he seems a very intense kind of person, I can imagine all the hype around the film has got to be pretty stiffling, not that that's any sort of excuse.
  • Jeremy1012
    Jeremy1012 Posts: 7,170
    pjsteelerfan wrote:
    Just because he was not one of the best in other films should not take away from what he did in this one. I am sure there are other actors and directors out there that have won awards based on one project. You should see his performance first before knocking it. I think it was just as good as Bardems was last year in No Country for Old Men. He set the standard for the character now.
    I didn't knock it at all, I'd just be very surprised if Heath's Joker is on par with De Niro's Travis Bickle, Falconetti's Joan of Arc, Brando's Don Corleone, Kinski's Aguirre or any of Toshiro Mifune's samurai roles. I can safely say I have no doubt in my mind that, no matter how good this performance is, it's not the best of all-time. Am I being presumptious? Yes. Am I right? Almost definitely.
    "I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
  • Rygar
    Rygar Posts: 8,711
    facepollution wrote:
    and I thought you were kidding.......

    From the press I've seen him do for Dark Knight he seems a very intense kind of person, I can imagine all the hype around the film has got to be pretty stiffling, not that that's any sort of excuse.
    There is no excuse, but I'm hoping it isn't true, or some such thing. Even if it isn't true, it won't do his image any good...
  • THC
    THC Posts: 525
    i may get flammed for this...but i do think it has to be said.

    he was great in the role. very very strong. but i do think he is getting overhyped because of the circumstances surrounding his death...and how this was ultimately his last role. i think Jack did just as interesting a Joker as Heath...only diff.

    great role...but not like the best role in the history of film...that is blowing it out of proportion.
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  • Ledbetterman10
    Ledbetterman10 Posts: 16,994
    THC wrote:
    great role...but not like the best role in the history of film...that is blowing it out of proportion.

    true, but it's far and away the best performance ever by an actor in an action movie
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  • facepollution
    facepollution Posts: 6,834
    Jeremy1012 wrote:
    I didn't knock it at all, I'd just be very surprised if Heath's Joker is on par with De Niro's Travis Bickle, Falconetti's Joan of Arc, Brando's Don Corleone, Kinski's Aguirre or any of Toshiro Mifune's samurai roles. I can safely say I have no doubt in my mind that, no matter how good this performance is, it's not the best of all-time. Am I being presumptious? Yes. Am I right? Almost definitely.

    Well since it's all pretty subjective, it would ultimately come down to how much you got out of the film, script, character etc. But in terms of how convincing or whatever, there is no reason why Ledger's performance couldn't be just as good as any of those that you mentioned.
  • eyedclaar
    eyedclaar Posts: 6,980
    I will be the first to admit that I was NOT happy with Heath being cast as the Joker. I never thought much about him as an actor... at all. However, I saw the film last night and am man enough to admit when I am wrong. And boy howdy was I ever. Truly an amazing and disturbing performance. Blew Jack's Joker completely out of the water. Great film. Worth the hype.
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  • Jeremy1012
    Jeremy1012 Posts: 7,170
    facepollution wrote:
    Well since it's all pretty subjective, it would ultimately come down to how much you got out of the film, script, character etc. But in terms of how convincing or whatever, there is no reason why Ledger's performance couldn't be just as good as any of those that you mentioned.
    I'm not saying it COULDN'T be as good, I'm saying it almost certainly won't be. I've already said, yes, I'm being presumptious. I just don't think heath had the talent to produce a performance greater than the very best.

    By your reckoning, a vote for Leslie Nielsen in The Naked Gun is as viable for "greatest film performance in history" as Lawrence Olivier's Hamlet or Brando's On The Waterfront?? :)

    Of course appreciation of a film is subjective. The strength of a performance is not quite as subjective.
    "I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
  • Rhinocerous Surprise
    Rhinocerous Surprise Posts: 4,423
    Jeremy1012 wrote:
    I'm not saying it COULDN'T be as good, I'm saying it almost certainly won't be. I've already said, yes, I'm being presumptious. I just don't think heath had the talent to produce a performance greater than the very best.

    By your reckoning, a vote for Leslie Nielsen in The Naked Gun is as viable for "greatest film performance in history" as Lawrence Olivier's Hamlet or Brando's On The Waterfront?? :)

    Of course appreciation of a film is subjective. The strength of a performance is not quite as subjective.
    I'd take Drebbin over Hamlet anyday. :D
    Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
  • Jeremy1012
    Jeremy1012 Posts: 7,170
    Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:
    I'd take Drebbin over Hamlet anyday. :D
    Yeah but are you judging that on enjoyment factor or on acting performance? :) This is the point. I don't rate Olivier's film much at all and don't enjoy it, although that's more to do with the directorial decisions than his acting, but if someone told me they thought Leslie Nielsen's performance was better I'd be all like "WTF bro?!" :D
    "I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
  • Rhinocerous Surprise
    Rhinocerous Surprise Posts: 4,423
    Jeremy1012 wrote:
    Yeah but are you judging that on enjoyment factor or on acting performance? :) This is the point. I don't rate Olivier's film much at all and don't enjoy it, although that's more to do with the directorial decisions than his acting, but if someone told me they thought Leslie Nielsen's performance was better I'd be all like "WTF bro?!" :D
    I actually think that Leslie Nielsen's performances in the Naked Gun films (and Airplane) were spot-on perfect. There might not have been as much dramatic weight behind the story or the character, but for the role he was playing, he absolutely nailed it. No one does straight-faced comedy as well as he did in the first Naked Gun or Airplane. :)
    Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
  • pouch15
    pouch15 Posts: 436
    Ledbetterman10 wrote:
    true, but it's far and away the best performance ever by an actor in an action movie
    true, but also the best performance of the year so far.
  • facepollution
    facepollution Posts: 6,834
    Jeremy1012 wrote:
    I'm not saying it COULDN'T be as good, I'm saying it almost certainly won't be. I've already said, yes, I'm being presumptious. I just don't think heath had the talent to produce a performance greater than the very best.

    By your reckoning, a vote for Leslie Nielsen in The Naked Gun is as viable for "greatest film performance in history" as Lawrence Olivier's Hamlet or Brando's On The Waterfront?? :)

    Of course appreciation of a film is subjective. The strength of a performance is not quite as subjective.

    Oh I'm sure it's not the greatest in the history of films, I don't think any one performance could be considered 'The Best'.

    I guess I'm just prepared to wait and see rather than making an assumption about the guy's skills. I've seen a couple of his films and thought he was fairly good, but to be fair I was a little baffled when they announced he was going to be the Joker. But I do remember long before he died that people were raving about his performance, which made me think 'well why not?'.

    I don't think the Naked Gun example is particularly comparable because that film is not meant to be taken seriously in any way. People like Nielsen's character don't exist, just like there isn't a group of six friends sitting about in a coffee house in New York with a constant stream of one-liners pouring out of their mouths.

    I know you're going to point out that I'm now referring to a comic book adaptation as being close to real life, but obviously psychopathic people do exist. I think the key thing that would make the performance, will be how well he has adapted it to fit with the style of the film and how original his portrayal is - which can't have been easy considering Jack Nicholson's stand-out performance in the original Tim Burton film.
  • pouch15
    pouch15 Posts: 436
    Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:
    I actually think that Leslie Nielsen's performances in the Naked Gun films (and Airplane) were spot-on perfect. There might not have been as much dramatic weight behind the story or the character, but for the role he was playing, he absolutely nailed it. No one does straight-faced comedy as well as he did in the first Naked Gun or Airplane. :)

    its not a joke dude!! I rented Naked gun and airplane this weekend and seriously, I laugh my ass off, Leslie Nielsen, never laughs at the movie, he is so serious in his character, thats what makes him funny hahahaha

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  • smithnic
    smithnic Posts: 1,565
    Porchsitter wrote:
    I would say he portrays one of the most convincing psychopaths on screen since Hopkin's Hannibal Lechter.


    Did you not see No Country for Old Men? Or There Will Be Blood? Both those performances are better playing a "psychopath"
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  • Ledbetterman10
    Ledbetterman10 Posts: 16,994
    smithnic wrote:
    Did you not see No Country for Old Men? Or There Will Be Blood? Both those performances are better playing a "psychopath"

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  • AllNiteThing
    AllNiteThing Posts: 1,115
    smithnic wrote:
    Did you not see No Country for Old Men? Or There Will Be Blood? Both those performances are better playing a "psychopath"


    Disagree, and I saw and loved both of those movies. There Will Be Blood was epic and No Country For Old Men was deep and haunting. Heath Ledger's Joker was out-of-this-world mesmerizing and jaw dropping though. Definitely trumps the others and most any other performance in years.
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  • hodge
    hodge Posts: 519
    hands down best performance of the year
    ..and you will come to find that we are all one mind, capable of all that's imagined and all conceivable

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