How 'bout them Penguins? How 'bout them Penguins!

jackrabbit slim · February 2008

inmyrvm wrote:

he very shakily won 40 last year. he got worse this year. i love him not playing because that means i don't scream at the t.v. constantly. he is more fragile than a vase. i hope he comes back and does not suck. if he does, let his ass go. conks will take us all the way. but let's not get too cocky. i don't wanna sound like a boston fan.

I have a feeling if fleury comes back and sucks, then he is the guy we trade so we can resign hossa. I'd be cool with that.
I don't like his history of losing throughout his career. To sign hossa we have to trade somebody not named crosby, malkin, or staal.
So its either fleury or gonchar.

inmyrvm · February 2008

jackrabbit slim wrote:

I have a feeling if fleury comes back and sucks, then he is the guy we trade so we can resign hossa. I'd be cool with that.
I don't like his history of losing throughout his career. To sign hossa we have to trade somebody not named crosby, malkin, or staal.
So its either fleury or gonchar.

we don't have to trade anyone, we have plenty of cap room. look at the roster and some of the guys you know won't be back. we will be ok. if they give fleury anything over 3 million (which is still too much) they are nuts. he is not our goalie of the future. hopefully roberts can make it back for the playoffs. i would say he was our best player against the sens last year..

Rygar · February 2008

inmyrvm wrote:

we don't have to trade anyone, we have plenty of cap room. look at the roster and some of the guys you know won't be back. we will be ok. if they give fleury anything over 3 million (which is still too much) they are nuts. he is not our goalie of the future. hopefully roberts can make it back for the playoffs. i would say he was our best player against the sens last year..

This is from TSN's Bob McKenzie:

"Can we reasonably expect that Hossa is going to sign with the Penguins? Does anybody think that Hossa will sign long-term in Pittsburgh? They've got Malkin coming up in a year and change. Jordan Staal is coming out of entry level in a little while. They've already got the Sidney Crosby deal. They've got a lot of young players that are going to be commanding a lot of money and Hossa could be looking for eight, nine, or ten million dollars."

Although this sounds more like a "long term" scenario, like 2+ year signing. They might be able to sign him for next year without further changes if you take the cup.

blackredyellow · February 2008

Rygar wrote:

This is from TSN's Bob McKenzie:

"Can we reasonably expect that Hossa is going to sign with the Penguins? Does anybody think that Hossa will sign long-term in Pittsburgh? They've got Malkin coming up in a year and change. Jordan Staal is coming out of entry level in a little while. They've already got the Sidney Crosby deal. They've got a lot of young players that are going to be commanding a lot of money and Hossa could be looking for eight, nine, or ten million dollars."

Although this sounds more like a "long term" scenario, like 2+ year signing. They might be able to sign him for next year without further changes if you take the cup.

That's kinda what I am thinking.... They still have next season with Malkin at his entry level contract salary.

He's not having a great year statistically as a contract year... If you were Hossa or his agent, would you take a little less for a one year deal to stay with a team who will even be a stronger cup contender next year, and play on a line with Crosby where you probably should score 50+ goals, play in a market with less media scrutiny, and go into the summer of 2009 as probably the premier UFA goal scoring winger... or sign with someone this year for long-term guaranteed (but less) money?

inmyrvm · February 2008

no one will get more than sid to play in pittsburgh, period. if hossa thinks he's worth 8-10 a year he's nuts. 6 tops. i'm sure someone is dumb enough to give him that kind of money though.

Rygar · February 2008

inmyrvm wrote:

no one will get more than sid to play in pittsburgh, period. if hossa thinks he's worth 8-10 a year he's nuts. 6 tops. i'm sure someone is dumb enough to give him that kind of money though.

The team centers around Crosby, so no, no one will be getting more than him. The point is that Hossa, as far as the 2007-2008 season is concerned, is a rental. The Stanley Cup is within reach and they're going for it.
Should be interesting to see how it pans out. They'll worry about the rest of it come summertime

Rygar · February 2008

blackredyellow wrote:

That's kinda what I am thinking.... They still have next season with Malkin at his entry level contract salary.

He's not having a great year statistically as a contract year... If you were Hossa or his agent, would you take a little less for a one year deal to stay with a team who will even be a stronger cup contender next year, and play on a line with Crosby where you probably should score 50+ goals, play in a market with less media scrutiny, and go into the summer of 2009 as probably the premier UFA goal scoring winger... or sign with someone this year for long-term guaranteed (but less) money?

That's what I meant. If you guys take the cup, or put up a convincing effort, I'd bet my left maple nut Hossa would sign for what the Pens could currently afford for another shot with the same team, instead of forcing them to either not resign him or make roster changes to accomodate his asking price.

jackrabbit slim · February 2008

blackredyellow wrote:

That's kinda what I am thinking.... They still have next season with Malkin at his entry level contract salary.

He's not having a great year statistically as a contract year... If you were Hossa or his agent, would you take a little less for a one year deal to stay with a team who will even be a stronger cup contender next year, and play on a line with Crosby where you probably should score 50+ goals, play in a market with less media scrutiny, and go into the summer of 2009 as probably the premier UFA goal scoring winger... or sign with someone this year for long-term guaranteed (but less) money?

They say Hossa's agent is a bloodsucker like scott boros in baseball. He'll go for every thing he can get next year. No penguins discount. Also Hossa dancing around the contract issue isn't a good sign.

blackredyellow · February 2008

jackrabbit slim wrote:

They say Hossa's agent is a bloodsucker like scott boros in baseball. He'll go for every thing he can get next year. No penguins discount. Also Hossa dancing around the contract issue isn't a good sign.

What I was saying, from a money standpoint, it might be in Hossa's best interest to sign a one year deal, knowing that he can demand the top salary in 2009.

What do you expect Hossa to say? It's his first day with a new team, do you expect him to come out in the local media and ask for a new contract on day 1?

inmyrvm · February 2008

shero would not have made this deal without talking contract already.

Rygar · February 2008

inmyrvm wrote:

shero would not have made this deal without talking contract already.

Here's the whole thing from TSN:

"Let's call a spade a spade.

This is an ownership deal. Mario Lemieux had to be involved in this.

Ray Shero is certainly the general manager and he's making the trades, and I'm not saying he didn't make this trade, but to take younger players that were under contract, and go out and get a rental.

Can we reasonably expect that Hossa is going to sign with the Penguins? Does anybody think that Hossa will sign long-term in Pittsburgh? They've got Malkin coming up in a year and change. Jordan Staal is coming out of entry level in a little while. They've already got the Sidney Crosby deal. They've got a lot of young players that are going to be commanding a lot of money and Hossa could be looking for eight, nine, or ten million dollars.

The Penguins think they can win the Stanley Cup, but that's an ownership decision. I can't imagine that Ray Shero would sit in the office and say, "I'm going to trade away our first round pick, Angelo Esposito, plus two guys like Armstrong and Christensen for a rental."

If you're out in the first round, is this a complete and utter failure? You've got to have ownwership blessing on a deal like this, and I've got to believe that this was driven in large part by Mario Lemieux and Sidney Crosby and the feeling of 'win it right now because we've got an opportunity to do that."

chromiam · February 2008

Rygar wrote:

Here's the whole thing from TSN:

"Let's call a spade a spade.

This is an ownership deal. Mario Lemieux had to be involved in this.

Ray Shero is certainly the general manager and he's making the trades, and I'm not saying he didn't make this trade, but to take younger players that were under contract, and go out and get a rental.

Can we reasonably expect that Hossa is going to sign with the Penguins? Does anybody think that Hossa will sign long-term in Pittsburgh? They've got Malkin coming up in a year and change. Jordan Staal is coming out of entry level in a little while. They've already got the Sidney Crosby deal. They've got a lot of young players that are going to be commanding a lot of money and Hossa could be looking for eight, nine, or ten million dollars.

The Penguins think they can win the Stanley Cup, but that's an ownership decision. I can't imagine that Ray Shero would sit in the office and say, "I'm going to trade away our first round pick, Angelo Esposito, plus two guys like Armstrong and Christensen for a rental."

If you're out in the first round, is this a complete and utter failure? You've got to have ownwership blessing on a deal like this, and I've got to believe that this was driven in large part by Mario Lemieux and Sidney Crosby and the feeling of 'win it right now because we've got an opportunity to do that."

That "win it now at the cost of the future" philosophy has doomed many a solid franchise...

Phantom Pain · February 2008

chromiam wrote:

That "win it now at the cost of the future" philosophy has doomed many a solid franchise...

That's for sure.....

We would know :(

blackredyellow · February 2008

inmyrvm wrote:

shero would not have made this deal without talking contract already.

I don't see why people keep saying that... Even as a pure rental, it's a good deal if they go deep in the playoffs.

i could be wrong, but I can see both sides having the time to work out the basics of a contract for next year and beyond, and I can't really see what agent would talk salary numbers for next year without getting a feel for the free agent market.

The trade is a gamble, but I think a good one for the Pens...

And Shero definitely has some things in his corner when it comes to trying to resign Hossa, but I can't imagine that a deal is already in the works.

jackrabbit slim · February 2008

Rygar wrote:

Here's the whole thing from TSN:

"Let's call a spade a spade.

This is an ownership deal. Mario Lemieux had to be involved in this.

Ray Shero is certainly the general manager and he's making the trades, and I'm not saying he didn't make this trade, but to take younger players that were under contract, and go out and get a rental.

Can we reasonably expect that Hossa is going to sign with the Penguins? Does anybody think that Hossa will sign long-term in Pittsburgh? They've got Malkin coming up in a year and change. Jordan Staal is coming out of entry level in a little while. They've already got the Sidney Crosby deal. They've got a lot of young players that are going to be commanding a lot of money and Hossa could be looking for eight, nine, or ten million dollars.

The Penguins think they can win the Stanley Cup, but that's an ownership decision. I can't imagine that Ray Shero would sit in the office and say, "I'm going to trade away our first round pick, Angelo Esposito, plus two guys like Armstrong and Christensen for a rental."

If you're out in the first round, is this a complete and utter failure? You've got to have ownwership blessing on a deal like this, and I've got to believe that this was driven in large part by Mario Lemieux and Sidney Crosby and the feeling of 'win it right now because we've got an opportunity to do that."

I won't call it a failure. I don't think we gave up too much. Armstrong and EC are easily replaceable. I liked colby and his attitude but he's not the only character guy we have. The first rounder is going to be at the end of the round, and who knows what becomes of that. And esposito has a lot of issues. he could be good...i have my doubts.
And look at it this way, now we don't have to sign esposito or the 1st round pick to a mega bucks contract.
And we still have tons of good young guys either here or coming up in: crosby,malkin,staal,whitney,letang,fleury,goligoski,caputi,grant,stone,lannon., etc.

blackredyellow · February 2008

chromiam wrote:

That "win it now at the cost of the future" philosophy has doomed many a solid franchise...

What future did it really cost? A prospect who is falling in a lot of opinions and a low 1st rd pick? Most of the Pen's future is on the team now, and will be there for years and years to come.

inmyrvm · February 2008

blackredyellow wrote:

What future did it really cost? A prospect who is falling in a lot of opinions and a low 1st rd pick? Most of the Pen's future is on the team now, and will be there for years and years to come.

bingo. i read somewhere a scout said esposito has the strength of a 14 year old. colby and ec are both replaceable. if mario wants hossa to stay he will. mario always gets his way.

chromiam · February 2008

blackredyellow wrote:

What future did it really cost? A prospect who is falling in a lot of opinions and a low 1st rd pick? Most of the Pen's future is on the team now, and will be there for years and years to come.

You say the future will be there for years to come but what guarantees that??? The only young player signed for an extended period is Crosby. Malkin will command a nice salary as will Hossa, if the Pens sign him and Staal at some point as well. I'm not saying its a bad trade but it is a bit of a gamble. You add a player who hasn't been great in the playoffs to a team who was playing well without their star player.
It could all work out or Hossa could be a rental and then the real decision becomes does the organization move more youth for veteran players or not. If so then you start to become the Rangers where you retool every year through trades or free agency and never allow your farm system to truly develop talent.

blackredyellow · February 2008

inmyrvm wrote:

if mario wants hossa to stay he will. mario always gets his way.

That's funny, but seems to be true. I remember the Roberts deal last year with the no-trade clause... One of the first things he said when asked why he waived it for Pittsburgh, he said was "I got a phone call from Mario, and...." lol

Bathgate66 · February 2008

chromiam wrote:

If so then you start to become the Rangers where you retool every year through trades or free agency and never allow your farm system to truly develop talent.

not this year.

sometimes the best move you make is not making any move at all.
:rolleyes:

Lets Go Rangers

How 'bout them Penguins? How 'bout them Penguins!

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