During John McCain's speech he said..

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  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    cincybearcat wrote:
    Some, not many.

    I believe it to be the other way around. I'm not saying that the majority are stupid, but the majority are apathetic and then stupid and lazy make up the rest of the uninformed electorate.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • jimed14
    jimed14 Posts: 9,488
    cincybearcat wrote:
    Are you willing to accept that Congress and the President can't be held in check with spending so we always need to steal more $ from the American taxpayers in order to make up for the inefficient use of the other $ that was already stolen from the taxpayer? How much is enough??

    The last time we had a congress and a president that couldn't be held in check ... 2000 - 2006, how well did they check spending? ... look where we are now. And don't give me the line that the Dems haven't done anything in 2 years they've held congress ... with Bush as the president and the enormous hole they dug the last 6 years, there is no way we could have come out of that hole in the last 2 years.

    cincybearcat wrote:
    I know Obama is going to raise taxes and spending...it's at least admirable for Obama to admit that he needs $ to pay for all of these government services, etc. It's irresponsible of him to pretend like it won't effect 95% of the country. In fact, he's full of shit.

    He's got a plan ... now, if you think his plan won't work, that's one thing ... but his plan is that 95% of Americans will have lower taxes ... so, don't say "You know Obama is going to raise taxes" ... that is a wild guess at best.

    cincybearcat wrote:
    McCain will keep taxes low...the question on him, will he curtail spending, or will he follow suit. Who knows? And should we take it on faith and hope he didn't lie? Good question considering the last batch of idiots the Repubplican party has given us. Once they got power, instead of using it and following their ideals and what got them there...they did whatever necessary to keep power. That's a very bad thing and they have lost the trust of the AMerican people...can McCain get that trust back?

    I'm glad you admitted the Republican power play ... my point certainly is that McCain is following right in line with that ... he has completely sold his soul for the presidency and there is no reason to trust him anymore.
    "You're one of the few Red Sox fans I don't mind." - Newch91

    "I don't believe in damn curses. Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him in the ass." --- Pedro Martinez
  • brandon10
    brandon10 Posts: 1,114
    cincybearcat wrote:
    Because republicans understand that taxing the "Rich" means taxing businesses...even small businesses. You think they can just absorb that? Sure the mega-companies could, but they won't if they want to still appeal to their stocholders...so hwo to they compensate...oh, that's right, less hiring...hirer priced goods...pass the costs along. It stagnates the economy.

    It's not about the rich, it's about everyone, not just the poor.

    If you read Obama's platform, you will see that only Companies making over 250,000 dollars will be taxed. And Corporations shipping jobs overseas will be severely punished.
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,880
    brandon10 wrote:
    If there was a place I would want the government to spend my money, it would be on education, health care, and infrastructure. Not bullshit wars at 10 billion dollars a month and 4000 lives!


    That's fair enough. Though why do we need the federal government deciding what our kids learn and managing the health care system?

    I won't disagree with infrastructure it is one of the areas the fed gov't should be.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • jimed14
    jimed14 Posts: 9,488
    cincybearcat wrote:
    Because republicans understand that taxing the "Rich" means taxing businesses...even small businesses. You think they can just absorb that? Sure the mega-companies could, but they won't if they want to still appeal to their stocholders...so hwo to they compensate...oh, that's right, less hiring...hirer priced goods...pass the costs along. It stagnates the economy.

    It's not about the rich, it's about everyone, not just the poor.


    Obama's plan touched on small business' too ... please ... listen to what he has to say.

    I understand the fear that taxing big corporations will only raise prices and effect everyone ... but, they CAN absorb the hit, Exxon jsut announced the biggest profit in US history!

    Reagan ran and tried the "trickle down" theory ... and guess what, it does NOT trickle down ... rich people keep their money and the poor get fucked.
    "You're one of the few Red Sox fans I don't mind." - Newch91

    "I don't believe in damn curses. Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him in the ass." --- Pedro Martinez
  • spyguy
    spyguy Posts: 613
    mammasan wrote:
    Spyguy water under the bridge as they say. I do have to partially agree with you on McCain. While he may have one of the least partisan senators in Congress, that John McCain is no more. I have a nice example for you. When a bill was introduced in the senate to give immunity to telecom companies for their participation in the Bush Administrations warrentless wiretapping program, McCain said hell no. He stated that these companies knowingly violated the constitution and the laws of this country and should not receive immunity for their willing participation. That was the Maverick, going against party lines for what he believed was the right decision. Fast forward a few months, and may I say slightly over $1 million in donations to McCain campaign from said telecom companies and their CEOs, at this point McCain has the nomination pretty much in the bag and you would have thought that McCain had dual personalities because now his stance was that these companies where heros for their willing participation and that they should be commended for their patriotism. He fell right along with the rest of the rank and file.

    Now I'm not going to shit you, I have no love for the Republican party. I feel that they sold out their core beliefs to the Christian Right for campaign contributions. I have no love for the Democrats but for the most part they have always retained most of their core beliefs and while I may not agree with them they are pretty consistant. Now McCain was always a republican I could respect, didn't necessarily agree with him all the time, but I could respect him because he truly did what he felt was best for the country, not his party. So it definitely saddens me to see a man who stuck to his guns and did what he thought was best turn into such a GOP bitch. Here was a man who has good relations with the Democrats, someone who if he did win the presidency could have help bridge the hyper-partisan divide in Congress and the country over-all, but he decided to cozy up with the part of the Republican party that is tearing this country apart. Don't get me wrong the far left is just as guilty as the far right. So while he may have been this maverick senator who bucked the system in order to get done what was needed, he has since sold his soul.

    I dont know the specifics of that telecom bill. mccain voted against it right? but that took money from them? well thats not so bad. or are u saying he has since voted in favor of the bill?
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,880
    brandon10 wrote:
    If you read Obama's platform, you will see that only Companies making over 250,000 dollars will be taxed. And Corporations shipping jobs overseas will be severely punished.

    How much $ do you think small businesses make? $40?

    If you really believe that Obama is going to pay for everything and only 5% of the population will feel a pinch, then I don;t know what to say to you. And even if that's the case, that's one hell of a bill for 5% of us to pick up, isn't it? They already pay a ridiculous amount of taxes...I'd pack up and move jobs overseas too.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    spyguy wrote:
    I dont know the specifics of that telecom bill. mccain voted against it right? but that took money from them? well thats not so bad. or are u saying he has since voted in favor of the bill?


    He first was against then voted for, coincidentally after large donations where made to his campaign by entities in and associated with the telecom industry
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • spyguy
    spyguy Posts: 613
    mammasan wrote:
    He first was against then voted for, coincidentally after large donations where made to his campaign by entities in and associated with the telecom industry

    ok, so he actually voted for it? yea no good.
  • jimed14
    jimed14 Posts: 9,488
    cincybearcat wrote:
    How much $ do you think small businesses make? $40?

    If you really believe that Obama is going to pay for everything and only 5% of the population will feel a pinch, then I don;t know what to say to you. And even if that's the case, that's one hell of a bill for 5% of us to pick up, isn't it? They already pay a ridiculous amount of taxes...I'd pack up and move jobs overseas too.

    it's 5% of the individuals that will ahve their taxes go up, and large corporations .... the group of the population that controls a enormously disproportionate amount of the wealth and continues to gain more and more of it.

    I'm not pushing for some socialist state ... but, the misproportion is astonishing and needs to be put in check.
    "You're one of the few Red Sox fans I don't mind." - Newch91

    "I don't believe in damn curses. Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him in the ass." --- Pedro Martinez
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,880
    jimed14 wrote:
    Obama's plan touched on small business' too ... please ... listen to what he has to say.

    I understand the fear that taxing big corporations will only raise prices and effect everyone ... but, they CAN absorb the hit, Exxon jsut announced the biggest profit in US history!

    Reagan ran and tried the "trickle down" theory ... and guess what, it does NOT trickle down ... rich people keep their money and the poor get fucked.


    Please don;t tell me to "listen to what he has to say"...I do listen. And I think he is full of shit, and I think he'll find out fast, but it'll be too late for the rest of us.

    Oil is a different ballgame then most businesses, so your example is good to show the corruption involved with oil and gas prices, but not an overall picture of business.

    How 'bout this, everyone pays the same % of taxes? That is hardly "trickle-down". It doesn't punish people for making more money either, so it encourages improvement.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • jimed14
    jimed14 Posts: 9,488
    cincybearcat wrote:
    Please don;t tell me to "listen to what he has to say"...I do listen.
    .

    I said please.
    "You're one of the few Red Sox fans I don't mind." - Newch91

    "I don't believe in damn curses. Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him in the ass." --- Pedro Martinez
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,880
    jimed14 wrote:
    it's 5% of the individuals that will ahve their taxes go up, and large corporations .... the group of the population that controls a enormously disproportionate amount of the wealth and continues to gain more and more of it.

    I'm not pushing for some socialist state ... but, the misproportion is astonishing and needs to be put in check.

    You honestly believe that 5%?

    Not pushing for a socailist state...good, but you do want a redistribution of wealth where it is taken from people who have earned it and set aside for services for those who haven't? Certainly, I can see some of that, since people who make more money, even if they paid the same % tax would be paying a lot more and thus helping to provide those services.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,880
    jimed14 wrote:
    I said please.


    So did I.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • brandon10
    brandon10 Posts: 1,114
    cincybearcat wrote:
    That's fair enough. Though why do we need the federal government deciding what our kids learn and managing the health care system?

    I won't disagree with infrastructure it is one of the areas the fed gov't should be.

    Because education and health are something I believe everyone should be entitled to.

    And when it comes to math, sciences, geography, history, and the english language, Universities will dictate what should be taught. Government should work with these institutions to figure out the best way to prepare our children for higher education and adulthood. Spending more money on teachers and facilities is fine with me. It's something that can make our country even greater. Unlike staring bullshit wars and creating hate for our people around the world.
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    spyguy wrote:
    ok, so he actually voted for it? yea no good.

    Yes he voted to extend immunity to the telecom companies associated with the wiretaps.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • brandon10
    brandon10 Posts: 1,114
    cincybearcat wrote:
    How much $ do you think small businesses make? $40?

    If you really believe that Obama is going to pay for everything and only 5% of the population will feel a pinch, then I don;t know what to say to you. And even if that's the case, that's one hell of a bill for 5% of us to pick up, isn't it? They already pay a ridiculous amount of taxes...I'd pack up and move jobs overseas too.

    There are 1000's of small businesses that make under 250,000 dollars a year. Restaurants and Ma and Pa shops. And those businesses need the tax cuts, not the Exxon mobil's of the world.
  • jimed14
    jimed14 Posts: 9,488
    cincybearcat wrote:
    You honestly believe that 5%?

    Not pushing for a socailist state...good, but you do want a redistribution of wealth where it is taken from people who have earned it and set aside for services for those who haven't? Certainly, I can see some of that, since people who make more money, even if they paid the same % tax would be paying a lot more and thus helping to provide those services.

    I believe his plan of 5%.

    Again, the disprportion of weatlh is such that that top 5 percent, and the largest corporations can indeed afford to pay a higher share.

    Companies that profit off the war .... companies that profit from shipping jobs overseas ... indeed, they can afford a tax hike.

    Hey, I'm all for making a profit ... but folks that make so much money in this great country of ours ... that are so overwhelmingly rich ... they can pitch in a little more to help out the infrastructure and well being of those they profit from ... it's in their best interest ..... well, it should be.
    "You're one of the few Red Sox fans I don't mind." - Newch91

    "I don't believe in damn curses. Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him in the ass." --- Pedro Martinez
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,880
    jimed14 wrote:
    I believe his plan of 5%.
    .

    If he's elected, I can;t wait to see what he actually thinks the Top 5% is...or just hwo large he ends up expanding that.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • brandon10
    brandon10 Posts: 1,114
    cincybearcat wrote:
    If he's elected, I can;t wait to see what he actually thinks the Top 5% is...or just hwo large he ends up expanding that.

    Me too. And if McCain is elected i am truly frightened to see what becomes of the country and our economy. Same spending...same tax cuts!

    edit: maybe even more spending in Iran!!!!!!!!!!

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