I'm sitting in a Pro Life meeting right now...

CrazyMary6 wrote:

We had a similar thing come to my college campus last year. They had huge billboards set up in the courtyard and the kids were "diguised" as college kids with backpacks, ect... They would just start talking to us to see how we felt then start in on their robot bullshit. It was really offensive and I think it was the wrong way to stand up for their cause.

Are you referring to the Justice for All exhibit? Sounds like it. The worst part about them are the dishonest tactics they use to try to convert people to their side. Not only do they propagate blatently false information on college campuses, but they do things like pose as students to give the impression that your classmates agree with them and to waste the time of those disseminating accurate info so others can't get their hands on it. If they actually had a good argument, they should feel good about presenting it in a straightforward manner.

SomethingCreative wrote:

I believe that abortion is in some cases necessary but I do not think that flat out irrisponsibility is a good enough excuse for an abortion.

Thankfully, a bunch of guys on a bench think it's none of your business.

How can you rock out and not be political? Why is not OK to comment on issues on a rock band's forum? And if you don't like the message on your band leader's arm, well, don't like it, whatever. Rock music is about being free, about expressing yourself, whether it is shaking your ass at the show or bobbing your head in your car stuck in traffic on the way out of the parking lot. Say what you think, whenever you want, but be who you are all the time.

drsluggo wrote:

I've been seeing people like this all over. They are completely brainwashed talking about the new messiah and when you ask them why they are saying what they say they can't really think of anything to back it up. It's so weird.

Oh, its not religious people - its Obama supporters.

Ok, Ok, wait a minute, you're saying non-religious "Obama supporters" are walking around like zombies talking about a new messiah and repeating an anti-choice message? Sorry I have a hard time buying that.

PJMEMama wrote:

Ok, Ok, wait a minute, you're saying non-religious "Obama supporters" are walking around like zombies talking about a new messiah and repeating an anti-choice message? Sorry I have a hard time buying that.

I never said they were spouting an anti-abortion message, I was just saying they walk around town spouting how we all need to convert to the new messiah. When I ask them what this new messiah has done no one can answer it except to say its change I can believe in.

I'm an Obama-atheist, I suppose...

i just thought it mirrored what you guys were saying about the zombie campus christians quite a bit... that's all.

ofthegirl75 wrote:

Just a FYI
Last Oct. I'm walking through Philly past the liberty bell and there are these a-holes all over the place with giant color posters of dead babies! Mangled, bodiless.
These were all brain washed "Christian" kids under 21!

I went up to one girl -I won't repeat what I said-she wouldn't look at me. She kept saying the same thing over and over to whatever I said. Like a programmed robot on a mission.
hmmmmm...

Look! I found their manual:
https://secure.rtl.org/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=12&products_id=88&zenid=9babbc0bc10d6647cc880b7bf466cf1f

Always a favorite of mine...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xPkYFH4imw

Pro life is a misnomer. It should be called the "Control Women's Bodies (and women) Movement". Next they will require burkas. Then we will have to worship at their churches.

meowingmaryjane wrote:

I think Pro-life is not a misnomer if you believe a baby is a human being while it is in the womb.

Mary Jane

But what if you believe a baby is a human being while in the womb but still believe abortion should not be illegal - that women should have a choice (even if you feel strongly that they should "choose life")?

That makes you pro-choice, does it not?

I would say that "pro-life" is a misnomer because it doesn't address the real issue of the debate, which is whether a woman should have a choice regardless of someone else's opinion. I think "anti-choice" is a more appropriate name for a movement that is trying to set itself up in opposition to the pro-choice movement.

I tried to avoid being pulled into this highly contentious debate, but it just couldn't be helped.

Before getting onto the topic of abortion, I want to address the comment that the Catholic Church is the "biggest scam". Let me preface my opinion by stating that I was raised Catholic, went to Catholic school, and am now a Catholic high school teacher in Canada. Throughout this entire time I have struggled a great deal with faith and my relationship with God. I have looked into other faiths and religions and turned away from Catholicism. I say this so that you don't assume I am brain-washed and blindly follow the Pope's every word.

So, I will be the first to point out the flaws of the Catholic Church (in fact most of the time I am in fact the very liberal, socialist proponent of change within the Church that argues with colleagues and my super conservative father). The Church has been either directly involved in or complicit in the Crusades/ Spanish Inquisition, the slavery trade, colonialism, the destruction of various indigeonous cultures. And who could forget the recent scandal of child abuse (albeit please remember that this represents a small minority of Catholic priests). However, the Catholc Church seems to always be painted with broad strokes by most atheists. The biggest scam was also the first institution to offer social security, health care and education and for the most part continues to do so. Priests have always been fierce opponents of oppressive regimes throughout history and especially in the 20th Century. Catholic priests sacrificed their lives during the Second World War. Liberation theologists in South America have fought tooth an nail against regimes that exploit the poor. And the Catholic Church was instrumental in the dismantling of communism in Eastern Europe. In our time, we have been blessed with Mother Teresa, Oscar Romero, Jean Vanier and Desmond Tutu (who is not a Catholic, but an Anglican cleric). This is not to downplay the efforts of other religious organizations and groups such as Buddhists and Hindus. I am not saying that the Catholic Church is innocent but many North American critics of the church seem to think that the Catholic Church is this giant evil multinational corporation that wants to take over the world and impose white Christian rule.

Quite frankly I am sick and tired of the Catholic Church being constantly maligned. Moreover, it is often lumped together with the American Christian Right, which has its roots largle in Christian Fundamentalism. Let's face it, it's not cool to be Christian (or to be of any monotheistic faith for that matter) but I'd imagine that most of the people on this board who are criticizing Catholicism/Christianity probably think that Buddhism is a very noble faith and that the Dalai Lama is a very forward thinking individual. Well, my response to this is provided by a video from a great series by Jon Safron:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igIBSeaJ9YI

Safron is a very humourous and insightful individual. I highly recommend the entire series (it even points out the many flaws and foibles of Christianity as well). Finally on the subject of the Catholic Church, I am going to say something that I am sure will piss off a lot of people. I find it very strange that the very same people who criticize the Catholic Church (and religion in general) will blindly follow the Church of Eddie Vedder. Pretty much everything Eddie Vedder does is just beyond repute for many fans. The Catholic Church is a big scam but when Pearl Jam does a few benefit concerts, they are suddenly heroes. I hate to break it to you but Eddie Vedder is a rock star. He doesn't make music to save the world or help people (at least this is not his primary motive). Although he may not be as extravagant as his peers, he still lives a much more luxurious life than anyone on this message board. Sure he cares about this and that, but guess what, so do pretty much every faith organization and no matter your politics, you cannot deny that they do some good. At the end of the day, the Catholic Church is just a human institution, just as flawed as any human being. So just cut it some slack.

Now abortion. My opinion on abortion is that I was not put on this earth to judge anyone, we are given free will and if women want to exercise their right and free will, so be it. Only God and that woman knows what is in her heart and so if what she has done is "wrong", she may have to answer for it. But that does not make abortion wrong. I don't necessarily agree with it, but I have never been in the position of having to work through this very torturous decision. However, I have known women who have had several abortions and seem to see it as no different than a simple check up at the doctor's office. This type of callous lack of responsibility, in my humble opinion, is fully unjustified. Being raped, or just making a mistake at an early age are one thing, but living a lifestyle that results in countless unwanted pregnancies is definitely an issue, especially when so many women agonize over the inability to have children of their own.

I'm sorry for the length of this reply. I do want you to know that everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I'm sure that some people will have problems with my statements, but please do not assume I am just an apologist for the Catholic Church, because nothing could be further from the truth.