i'm for affirmative action...

2

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  • cornnifer
    cornnifer Posts: 2,130
    surferdude wrote:
    Sounds like a good idea. Can we apply affirmative action to the NBA as a pilot program? Caucasians and hispanics are woefully under represented. Affirmative action would sure aid this travesty of justice and put an end to the ongoing racism inherent in the NBA.

    in all due rerspect, i chuckle a little bit everytime some argues against AA and points to the NBA. Its absolutely ridiculous to make this point.
    The NBA is not a university, fortune 500 company, or even a job really. Its not like players fil out an application and go through an interview process. If the majority of NBA caliber basketball players happen to be Black so be it. It isn't like teams aren't drafting white or Mexican guys because of their race or ethnicity. They draft the best players. period.
    When you stop to consider how the majority of owners, general managers, coaches etc. are non-black, makes NBA references in this context even more absurd. It isn't like its a bunch of Black guys only drafting Black guys.
    "When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
  • cornnifer
    cornnifer Posts: 2,130
    DOSW wrote:
    This is why I'm not a big fan of affirmative action. I'm not in the least bit racist, so why should I be punished because some of my ancestors might have been? It makes no sense. I didn't do anything to deserve ANY kind of handicap of any size against my chances of landing a spot in a university or a nice job.

    Yeah, yeah, I know... poor me, the white middle-class male. I realize that other races do have certain social handicaps against them. And we should work on eliminating those, not try to even it out by adding even more discrimination to whites. Two wrongs does not make a right.

    This is a HUGE misconception about AA. It in no way punishes ordiscriminates against whites. It prevents the discrimination of certain protected demographics. Thats it. If you are the most qualified for a position, you will not be denied in a favor for an unqualified member of one these protected demographics.
    "When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
  • Alex_Coe
    Alex_Coe Posts: 762
    DOSW wrote:
    This is why I'm not a big fan of affirmative action. I'm not in the least bit racist, so why should I be punished because some of my ancestors might have been? It makes no sense. I didn't do anything to deserve ANY kind of handicap of any size against my chances of landing a spot in a university or a nice job.

    Yeah, yeah, I know... poor me, the white middle-class male. I realize that other races do have certain social handicaps against them. And we should work on eliminating those, not try to even it out by adding even more discrimination to whites. Two wrongs does not make a right.

    QFT
  • Alex_Coe
    Alex_Coe Posts: 762
    cornnifer wrote:
    This is a HUGE misconception about AA. It in no way punishes ordiscriminates against whites. It prevents the discrimination of certain protected demographics. Thats it. If you are the most qualified for a position, you will not be denied in a favor for an unqualified member of one these protected demographics.

    But AA is still tough shit, because it's sometimes it's almost impossible to tell which of two candidates are more qualified. That's when AA takes place, when you are equally qualified with a black competitor.
  • scw156
    scw156 Posts: 442
    cornnifer wrote:
    This is a HUGE misconception about AA. It in no way punishes ordiscriminates against whites. It prevents the discrimination of certain protected demographics. Thats it. If you are the most qualified for a position, you will not be denied in a favor for an unqualified member of one these protected demographics.


    I don't think that's true...

    Don't Universities or other places sometimes have like a percentage of blacks etc. that they have to let in due to Affirmative Action? So then if there are way more qualified white people out there, tough, they gotta fill the percentage and then a LESS qualified person gets in...

    I thought i heard this somewhere, I could be wrong though.
    The Sentence Below Is True
    The Sentence Above Is False
  • Alex_Coe
    Alex_Coe Posts: 762
    scw156 wrote:
    I don't think that's true...

    Don't Universities or other places sometimes have like a percentage of blacks etc. that they have to let in due to Affirmative Action? So then if there are way more qualified white people out there, tough, they gotta fill the percentage and then a LESS qualified person gets in...

    I thought i heard this somewhere, I could be wrong though.


    No, for the most part AA gives minorities an advantage only when all other factors are equal.
  • Alex_Coe
    Alex_Coe Posts: 762
    Trau wrote:
    Affirmative action based on race is ridiculous.

    Just make higher education free.


    What an awesome idea. (Seriously. Thumbs up.)
  • surferdude
    surferdude Posts: 2,057
    cornnifer wrote:
    The NBA is not a university, fortune 500 company, or even a job really. Its not like players fil out an application and go through an interview process.
    Players sure do go through an interview process, it's called try-outs. The goal of every business is the same as every NBA team, that is to be as successful as possible. Now after an interview process why do you accept so easily that the better basketball player is on average black, but the better business person can't be caucasian. It seems you believe there is some either physical, mental or cultural basis for a black personto be a better ball player, but you don't offer this same respect to a caucasian person and business. You come into this with so many preconcieved and racist notions that it makes it hard to deal with.
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • Alex_Coe
    Alex_Coe Posts: 762
    Dammit, I knew this thread was going to become something about "racism".

    "Well, you don't agree with me, so you must be racist."

    Hooray.
  • surferdude
    surferdude Posts: 2,057
    Alex_Coe wrote:
    Dammit, I knew this thread was going to become something about "racism".
    What did you think a thread about affirmative action would discuss? Affirmative action is by it's very definition a form of racism.
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • NMyTree
    NMyTree Posts: 2,374
    Those who are for affirmative action, support racism and discrimination.

    Plain and simple.

    It's clear as crystal and plain as day.
  • Milhouse VanHouten
    Milhouse VanHouten Posts: 755
    surferdude wrote:
    Players sure do go through an interview process, it's called try-outs. The goal of every business is the same as every NBA team, that is to be as successful as possible. Now after an interview process why do you accept so easily that the better basketball player is on average black, but the better business person can't be caucasian. It seems you believe there is some either physical, mental or cultural basis for a black personto be a better ball player, but you don't offer this same respect to a caucasian person and business. You come into this with so many preconcieved and racist notions that it makes it hard to deal with.

    This arguement would stand up IF you could prove that there has been a systematic exclusion or disadvantagement of non-blacks in the NBA draft and overall talent evaluation/scouting. In the early 60's, the league was about 80% white and about 20% black. At present, those figures are reversed, but I don't think you can prove that it's due to a conspiracy to exclude whites from the NBA.

    Also, the MVP of the league has been the same white guy the past two years.
    "Of course it hurts. You're getting fucked by an elephant."
  • Alex_Coe
    Alex_Coe Posts: 762
    surferdude wrote:
    What did you think a thread about affirmative action would discuss? Affirmative action is by it's very definition a form of racism.


    You're right.
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,880
    cornnifer wrote:
    They draft the best players. period.


    And affirmative action is in direct opposition to this type of thinking. You hire based on color instead of ability...seems racist to me.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,880
    Alex_Coe wrote:
    No, for the most part AA gives minorities an advantage only when all other factors are equal.


    Sure it does. You really think all factors are equal between any 2 people?
    hippiemom = goodness
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,880
    Alex_Coe wrote:
    Dammit, I knew this thread was going to become something about "racism".

    "Well, you don't agree with me, so you must be racist."

    Hooray.

    Yep, only took to Post #8.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Pearl Jam and toast
    Pearl Jam and toast Posts: 4,475
    If we don't stop trying to make up for shit in our past (or ASKING for that kind of thing) we'll never advance as a society. Calling Al Sharpton a 'nigger' does as much harm as an underqualified student getting into college because of his skin color.
    Come on pilgrim you know he loves you..

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  • bubbamackdaddy69
    bubbamackdaddy69 Posts: 576
    I'm not for it at all really...Kinda reverse racism...I'm a white dude and if a black dude gets a job over me because he is more qualified then great..that's fair...but if he gets it because he's black and less qualified that's just fucking moronic.
    my 2 cents
    Master of Zen
  • Lesbelges
    Lesbelges Posts: 434
    I'm not for AA because I feel it is a form of racism with "good intentions"

    Besides, I'm the first generation to live in the US, why should I be affected by what Americans did before me? I'm not responsible!

    On the other hand, to the guys saying that their chances in landing a job or getting into a university should not be affected by what their ancestors did because you didn't actually do anything. I agree to a certain point, but the idea is that the exploitation of blacks in the past has allowed you to be where you are at today. It made your great great great grandparents better off, and this wealth was past on to you. And even if it wasn't passed on to you, you can argue that the current wealth of the US comes directly from the slavery (of course not all of it), and that blacks should be compensated for it.

    My personal opinion is that you should be rewarded based on your performance, whether it's work, NBA, or schools.
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  • Thorns2010
    Thorns2010 Posts: 2,201
    Milhouse VanHouten wrote:


    Also, the MVP of the league has been the same white guy the past two years.

    Yeah, but he is from Canada....so he's not like.....a 'real' white guy!

    :D;)

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