Israel, US, and Abbas want peace...Hamas doesn't

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Comments

  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    jlew24asu wrote:
    It's really sad to see. they are soo close.

    They are so close to what exactly? Please provide details of what's on offer.


    jlew24asu wrote:
    Abbas and his allies "will find out that they are pursuing nothing but a mirage," Mashaal said on Hamas radio.

    This sounds about right.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Wednesday, 10 October 2007, 23:16 GMT 00:16 UK

    Hamas ready for talks with rival

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7038808.stm

    Oh no! Another cut and paste frenzy from Byrnzie!
    Sorry Jlew! I know how hard it is for you to read articles that contradict your own views.
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    Byrnzie wrote:
    If these so called 'peace talks' are between nobody but Israel, the U.S, and Fatah, then you can bet your bottom dollar that they'll be no agreement hashed out other than an agreement to concede more land to Israel and to crush the legitimate Hamas government. As far as Israel abiding by international law and withdrawing to the 1967 borders, forget it. And until that happens they'll be no peace.

    Took the words right out of my mouth.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    jlew24asu wrote:
    that your propaganda will never bring about peace. that is the ultimate goal right? its clear that its not on your agenda.

    The ultimate goal is to eliminate Palestinians from their land, and they know it.

    Israeli occupation maps over time would seem to definitely support this reality.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun
    LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun Posts: 6,097
    Byrnzie wrote:
    So the Palestinians are being ridiculous and selfish for asking for the illegal occupation to end? Now I've heard it all.

    Selfish because the leaders ask more sacrifice of their people without any hope of benefit. The southern US could have dragged out the civil war for another 8 years, but who would that have benefited? Would the south be better off? No, of course not, and Robert E Lee saw that that was the case. And now all the states are stronger for it. We could still be hurling bombs at Mexico if they didn't surrender and instead fought a pointless, self-destructive guerilla war, but its wasn't in anyone's best interest. The events that led to Israel's founding occured what, 60 years ago? How long are you going to ask your children to fight a pointless war? Would Northern Ireland be better off today if the bombing were still going on? Yeah they would still be fighting for the cause but is it in the people of northern Ireland's best interest?

    At some point it becomes about foolish pride. Thats why i call it a crusade.

    Do you really expect Israelis to pick up and move? Thats about as likely as non native Americans going back to Europe. Think about it.
  • Coming back to life
    Coming back to life Posts: 401
    Gotta admit I don't see why Israel can't go back to its original size...
    A restaurant with a smoking section is like a swimming pool with a pissing section
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    Byrnzie wrote:
    So Israel is willing to 'negotiate in order to install peace'? Really? Do you know what's on offer here? Please inform me, because I have no idea. Have you seen what Israel is now offering? If so, kindly share this information with us. As for Hamas '...continuing to resorting to violence', seems like you have a pretty one-eyed view of things as they actually are over there.


    Man it is pretty funny seeing you accusing me of having a one-eyed view. For someone who I concider to be decently intelligent you spout out some stupid shit. Unlike you and your ilk who solely blame Israel for the problems over there, I at least know that both sides share blame.

    I personally don't know what Israel is willing to offer, as I am sure you don't have the foggiest either, but diplomacy is always a better path than violence. Fatah and Israel want to sit down to discuss a peace treaty, but Hamas doesn't what does that tell you about them. To me that states that they would prefer to continue the killing in order to attain their goals.

    Maybe it's time you take a wider more open minded view of the world my friend because that tunnel vision of yours si making you look the part of the fool.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Byrnzie wrote:
    They are so close to what exactly? Please provide details of what's on offer.
    I have no idea what the offer is. what I do know is nothing will be offered or peace will NEVER happen unless they sit down and talk. why cant you get this through your thick terrorist minded head?? should hamas just continue the resistence? is that going to get them anywhere? its guys like you and hamas who want nothing to do with peace. like I said, its sad.

    Byrnzie wrote:
    This sounds about right.

    how much have you donated in the past years to your buddies? I really stronger encourage you to join their cause. I beg you.
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    The ultimate goal is to eliminate Palestinians from their land, and they know it.
    that is an all out lie. do you really not want peace? seriously?
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Wednesday, 10 October 2007, 23:16 GMT 00:16 UK

    Hamas ready for talks with rival

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7038808.stm

    Oh no! Another cut and paste frenzy from Byrnzie!
    Sorry Jlew! I know how hard it is for you to read articles that contradict your own views.


    thats excellent news. and how is this hard for me to read articles that contradict my view? post something I disagree with and we'll talk about. but this article is 100% what I have been hoping to see.

    see the difference between me and you is you want the people you disagree with destroyed. I dont like hamas but if they want to recognize Israel and negotiate, so be it. whatever it takes to bring peace, without anyone else on either side dying, I'm all for.

    you wont even sit down to talk. so whats the only option? rocket attacks and suicide bombs.
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Byrnzie wrote:
    No. I see how the U.S has been preventing peace by vetoing every single attempt at a two-state solution for the past 36 years.
    can I get you some kleenex or maybe a suicide bomb vest? US is fully supporting the talks that will happen in Nov.
    Byrnzie wrote:
    These so called 'peace talks' are nothing of the kind. They never have been about peace and they never will be. They have been, and only will ever be, about trying to persuade the Palestinians to make more concessions, whilst offering nothing in return.
    how the fuck do you know? can you stop with the hate already? is peace what you want? why is it so hard for you to realize who you and roland's mindset is why there is a problem. I am now convinced you are not interested in peace.

    http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Diplomacy/4895.htm
    Byrnzie wrote:
    You talk about Abbas and Fatah as though they're a legitimate government.
    why are they not legitimate?
    Byrnzie wrote:
    They're as legitimate as Pinochet was in Chile.

    more byzine hate. you are a true winner. its people like you who make this world a sad place to live. hate hate hate hate its all you know.

    debating with you makes me understand why people become suicide bombers. you cant debate with someone who has NO interest in peace
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Byrnzie wrote:
    So Israel is willing to 'negotiate in order to install peace'? Really? Do you know what's on offer here? Please inform me, because I have no idea. Have you seen what Israel is now offering? If so, kindly share this information with us.
    we dont know. they havent had the fucking meeting yet. why are you so against sitting down and talking it out?

    Byrnzie wrote:
    As for Hamas '...continuing to resorting to violence', seems like you have a pretty one-eyed view of things as they actually are over there.
    please tell us what is really going on over there. mammason is kinda crazy to think hamas uses violence, but please tell us what the other eye is seeing.

    ready for a cut and paste party?

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/16/world/middleeast/16gaza.html?_r=1&n=Top%2FReference%2FTimes%20Topics%2FOrganizations%2FP%2FPalestinian%20Authority&oref=slogin

    Hamas Attacks Against Fatah Kill 14 and Add to Gaza Chaos

    NAHAL OZ, Israel, May 15 — Members of the military wing of Hamas attacked Palestinian Authority security forces loyal to Hamas’s rival, Fatah, on Tuesday, killing nine, according to Fatah officials.

    [Early Wednesday, Hamas gunmen stormed the home of a top Fatah security official in Gaza City, killing five bodyguards inside, Palestinian security officials told The Associated Press.]

    The current round of factional violence, in its third day Tuesday, threatens the survival of the Authority’s two-month-old unity government, which was the result of a power-sharing agreement between Hamas and Fatah. The attack on the Presidential Guard, loyal to the Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas, of Fatah, seemed a direct challenge to his authority.


    I obvioulsy could go on, but its a waste of time
  • spiral out
    spiral out Posts: 1,052
    jlew24asu wrote:

    why are they not legitimate?



    Who won the election?
    Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!

    The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
  • spiral out
    spiral out Posts: 1,052
    jlew24asu wrote:

    see the difference between me and you is you want the people you disagree with destroyed.

    And you know that is not true.
    Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!

    The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    It's not so much let's talk about peace as it is let's talk about our demands under the guise of peace.

    It's like saying hi let's be friends now, and oh by the way we want more of your land in case you weren't aware of that fact.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    mammasan wrote:
    Fatah and Israel want to sit down to discuss a peace treaty, but Hamas doesn't. what does that tell you about them. To me that states that they would prefer to continue the killing in order to attain their goals.

    Abbas and the Palestinian authority are a puppet government propped up by Israel and the west. Any so called 'peace talks' between them, Israel and the U.S are redundant from the outset. It's that simple.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    jlew24asu wrote:
    should hamas just continue the resistence?

    Yes, they should. It's the only logical thing to do. Just like the Algerians should have continued their resistance against the French occupation after they were defeated in 1957. Their continued resistance eventually led to their independence.
    The same can be said for India. Should they have continued their resistance after the 1857 mutiny was crushed? Yes, they should have. Their continued resistance eventually led to their independence.
    The Palestinians have every right to fight for the return of their land from Israeli occupation.
    Obviously you think they should just surrender their land to Israel and allow themselves to be destroyed as a nation. Fox news has clearly done a good job on you.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    jlew24asu wrote:
    we dont know. they havent had the fucking meeting yet. why are you so against sitting down and talking it out?

    Because they ar refusing to talk with Hamas, and Hamas is the elected government. So any 'negotiations' with Hamas being absent are a farce. That's why.
    We also need to take history into account. I could provide countless examples of so called 'Peace talks' which have been nothing but a sham but then you'd accuse me of indulging in a 'pasting frenzy', so it's kind of pointless. You have an aversion to facts and to historical precedents. You seem instead to enjoy reveling in pointless egotistical sparring matches, and blowing hot air. The term 'pissing in the wind' comes to mind.
  • baraka
    baraka Posts: 1,268
    Just some questions regarding this.............Didn't the Palestinians try the legal route and won but to no avail? The UN which represents the world says the Israeli's claims have no legal basis, so I'm sure the Palestinians would be quite happy if Israel were to abide by this ruling and some of the other 80+ UN resolutions Israel have thus far ignored and that's not including the 40 or so resolutions the US vetoed but unfortunately Israel ignores any resolutions they do not like; which to date is every single one.

    When folk in the Middle East see countries such as Iraq being destroyed for failing to abide by UN resolutions they get understandably angry when they see the same countries who are prepared to go to war to enforce UN resolutions against Arab countries stand idly by while Israel breaches more resolutions than the rest of the world combined. Just an observation, but perhaps I am missing something...........
    The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
    but the illusion of knowledge.
    ~Daniel Boorstin

    Only a life lived for others is worth living.
    ~Albert Einstein
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    baraka wrote:
    Just some questions regarding this.............Didn't the Palestinians try the legal route and won but to no avail? The UN which represents the world says the Israeli's claims have no legal basis, so I'm sure the Palestinians would be quite happy if Israel were to abide by this ruling and some of the other 80+ UN resolutions Israel have thus far ignored and that's not including the 40 or so resolutions the US vetoed but unfortunately Israel ignores any resolutions they do not like; which to date is every single one.

    When folk in the Middle East see countries such as Iraq being destroyed for failing to abide by UN resolutions they get understandably angry when they see the same countries who are prepared to go to war to enforce UN resolutions against Arab countries stand idly by while Israel breaches more resolutions than the rest of the world combined. Just an observation, but perhaps I am missing something...........

    You're spot on the money!

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