I'm a suicide bomber...

angelica wrote:

Undoubtedly. Trying to make it be about religious brainwashing doesn't work for me--it's really only a vehicle for the behaviours, not the cause.

I've been in a few outdoor survival scenarios where many of lifes comforts, controls, and basic feelings of security are taken away.

When uncertainty and discomfort sets in, it's the ones that pretend they have it all together (and think they are above, more advanced, or better than everyone else) who usually end up losing it first. At least from my observation.

It seems to me pretty much a cast the first stone scenario.

Were better people because we have Ipods....yeah...right...

*shakes head*

One need only look at Russia in the turn of the last century. The revolution took the lives of not only Rasputin (who probably deserved it) and Nicolas and Alexandra, but their 5 children as well -- the eldest, Olga, barely into her 20's, the youngest, the hemophiliac prince Alexei, only 14.

To the revolutionists, these deaths were deserved.

Extremists exist long enough to get talked into doing extreme things. And then they go out into the street and do something extreme, killing themselves in the process, and then they die.

They hope that someone else will feel strongly enough to do something just as extreme. But they don't live long enough to know for sure whether their cause was the right one.

My hope is that people will turn to alternative means of making their point.

But if they can't, my hope is that they will take out the fewest amount of innocent bystanders as possible.

See, this is why I don't run for POTUS.

Peace don't always work, much as I'd like it to.

angelica wrote:

Oh man, I'm not sure about my ability to cope in outdoor suvival scenarios. But our western world ego, and our ideas that we are so superior is scary. No, it's not that they don't like our lifestyle, it's that they see how horrific such a lack of conscience, compassion and remorse is as we float far above them in superiority and condescension.

The crazy thing about our egos--we need our "Ipods" and other gadgets so that we can believe the self-delusion we feed ourselves--the one that allows us to feel god-like and thereby beyond death even (get a load of us hiding death, too, reinforcing this delusion). And we miss out on "being". We're so out of touch with our reality and truth, it's disconcerting, frankly.

I agree. Some of the poorest people I've met are also some of the happiest (and nicest) people I've ever met. Is it innocence?...maybe just simplicity? perhaps both. When I interact with them It makes me feel a bit like my life is somewhat superficial in comparison. It's almost like they are genuine...and I am fake.

Why do we need all this extra junk to make us happy? What's the point? Why do we work our entire lives away just to own more stuff? We work for ourselves and for our families but somehow I think we seem to lose a lot of both in the process.

POTUS is BOGUS!

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

I agree. Some of the poorest people I've met are also some of the happiest (and nicest) people I've ever met. Is it innocence?...maybe just simplicity? perhaps both. When I interact with them It makes me feel a bit like my life is somewhat superficial in comparison. It's almost like they are genuine...and I am fake.

Why do we need all this extra junk to make us happy? What's the point? Why do we work our entire lives away just to own more stuff? We work for ourselves and for our families but somehow I think we seem to lose a lot of both in the process.

I think you've hit on it here, because you are aware and being honest about how you feel somewhat superficial compared to poor people and the simplicity/innocence. We seek illusory contentment in outer things in order to lose track of that of the inner lack of peace/innocence. It's alarming to the ego to see someone who has that peace, and for the ego to be reminded of it's own unceasing search in the externals, looking to feed the deep abyss of the inner void. We don't recognize we cannot feed the inner void with surface-outer solutions.

It's some fundamental psychology, and it's close to the universal base human condition in the western world. People try to disguise it and hide it. They look at the social masks of others and think others have solved this dilemma. And really, others, behind the masks and the busyness of "doing" and searching, feel the same void. Granted, they're so busy rustling around to fill it that they distract themselves for a time. What's the point in distracting ourselves and continuing the cycles though?

jeffbr wrote:

What the hell? I don't buy into the "they hate us because of our freedom" BS, but this is just a different flavor of that same BS. They hate us because we aren't compassionate like they are? They hate us because we don't have a concience like they do? Please.

And I didn't at any point say or intimate that they have a conscience while we don't.

When we overlook the horror, and show no remorse or compassion and continue on with our agendas no matter what pain we cause, we indicate our own lack of conscience, which is not the same as highlighting them having a superior conscience. What I'm saying is about us, totally.

angelica wrote:

I think you've hit on it here, because you are aware and being honest about how you feel somewhat superficial compared to poor people and the simplicity/innocence. We seek illusory contentment in outer things in order to lose track of that of the inner lack of peace/innocence. It's alarming to the ego to see someone who has that peace, and for the ego to be reminded of it's own unceasing search in the externals, looking to feed the deep abyss of the inner void. We don't recognize we cannot feed the inner void with surface-outer solutions.

It's some fundamental psychology, and it's close to the universal base human condition in the western world. People try to disguise it and hide it. They look at the social masks of others and think others have solved this dilemma. And really, others, behind the masks and the busyness of "doing" and searching, feel the same void. Granted, they're so busy rustling around to fill it that they distract themselves for a time. What's the point in distracting ourselves and continuing the cycles though?

Yeah...that's definitely how I'm beginning to see it. I hate to say it but shopping for odds and ends and browsing at Home Depot or Canadian Tire or for various articles of clothing makes me feel really content when I'm feeling not so good (yeah I'm every woman's boyfriend shopping dream guy I guess eh?).

It's some kind of broken mentality...I'm pretty sure of it. People (consumers) associate the need to constantly acquire new things to feel better. I feel quite alarmed and saddened at the thought of not buying new stuff in the near future (aside from food) when I already have all that I could possibly need right now. I don't know what the condition is but it's real....it's definitely an affliction.

I don't think Islamists hate Americans...they hate the American Gov't. It would be obvious to assume that they think the US gov't epresents the ideology of the American people. Just the same that Americans think most or all Iranians are in the same mindset as their Gov't Ahmahdinejad (did I spell that right? it was purely from memory) hehe....

I just don't think the Middle East is society of evil people as many Americans are apt and conned to believe. Some commit evil acts...but so do some Americans. America is also quite free of any form of oppression and life threatening conflict as well mind you.

This is why the higher than thou mentality just falls completely flat for me.

.

jeffbr wrote:

I apparently misunderstood your point, then. Usually when one negatively judges someone for lack of something, that person believes they possess a greater amount of that something. It is not typical to judge someone negatively for lack of something you believe you also lack. Sorry if I misunderstood.

Thanks, jeff--no apology is necessary.

Gotcha. I agree with this. I just didn't get how "they" could judge our lack of virtue (and hate us for it) without believing they were in possession of a superior amount of the same virtue.

I was considering someone more battered down. I've been very battered down myself, and treated purely inhumanely by others throughout my mental illness journey. I was constantly stunned by the arrogance and condescension of people. I was personally so fundamentally scarred, as I would imagine people in horror situations in life to also be, that I did not have the energy to see myself as "better" or even so much as okay. I did vow, however, that I would heal, and find myself some power so that I could change things. And I vowed I would not do the same myself to others when I achieved that power. These are very similar to revenge fantasies, only they are of the "best revenge is living well" type. And ironically, healing demanded that I transmute the anger and hatred to something that transcended it. So I transcended revenge altogether. I do know that I have been very fortunate with the supports I have had, and the assistance of social programs, and a home over my head, and the help of many good professionals for myself and my children, not to mention some very strong healthy influences in my early childhood. I can only imagine had I not been so fortunate and had I not been enabled to heal, my revenge fantasies might have taken on a much more ominous tone.

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

Yeah...that's definitely how I'm beginning to see it. I hate to say it but shopping for odds and ends and browsing at Home Depot or Canadian Tire or for various articles of clothing makes me feel really content when I'm feeling not so good (yeah I'm every woman's boyfriend shopping dream guy I guess eh?).

No, not really ....my boyfriend is a left-handed intuitive male who loves shopping, and the thing is I don't like shopping at all. He wants to meander around and look at everything, while I just want to get things done.

It's some kind of broken mentality...I'm pretty sure of it. People (consumers) associate the need to constantly acquire new things to feel better. I feel quite alarmed and saddened at the thought of not buying new stuff in the near future (aside from food) when I already have all that I could possibly need right now. I don't know what the condition is but it's real....it's definitely an affliction.

Welcome to the other 98% of us with some "affliction" or another...

I don't think Islamists hate Americans...they hate the American Gov't. It would be obvious to assume that they think the US gov't epresents the ideology of the American people. Just the same that Americans think most or all Iranians are in the same mindset as their Gov't Ahmahdinejad (did I spell that right? it was purely from memory) hehe....

I just don't think the Middle East is society of evil people as many Americans are apt and conned to believe. Some commit evil acts...but so do some Americans. America is also quite free of any form of oppression and life threatening conflict as well mind you.

This is why the higher than thou mentality just falls completely flat for me.

We've all got our good and bad points. I totally agree about the holier than thou thing--it's a total illusion between us/them. We've got some worldview differences between us as well, which causes some or much inability to at all grasp the validity of the other side's perspective, unfortunately.

^^^... that definitely helps complete the picture... nice.

Is it better to live in the Americas v.s.....? Definitely in this regard. Balance dammit we need more balance.

A CEO buddy of mine was telling me about Dubai the other day and how their laws work. Basically the shaw just says do it...and it's done.

Demolish those houses put in a road... done....no questions.

Definitely different. you can only stomp on the human psyche so much before it snaps....or goes boom.

Now how do we get more of our societal system to become affluent without murdering them all?

where's the happy medium?....Ghandi...are you still out there? heh