I'm Going To Stop You There, Mr. Galloway

13

Comments

  • Infinity_Now
    Infinity_Now Posts: 188
    dg1979us wrote:
    How is Hizbollah or Iran oppressed? Hizbollah has a political wing that operates in the Lebanese govt. and the terrorists faction more or less acts on their accord because they are militarily stronger than the Lebanese army. The people of Iran may be oppressed, but it would be their own government oppressing them, not Israel.

    Speaking of Israel oppressing people, well, they do oppress their own citizens, they seem to also be quite keen on oppressing their own soldiers:

    http://gnn.tv/articles/2480/Another_IDF_Refusenik_Jailed

    You probably won't ever see Hezbollah jail one of their own soldiers, a largely voluntary force. Do Hezbollah even have jails? I'm not saying they're any more civilized, but I am saying Israel is NO MORE civilized...
  • rod_farva
    rod_farva Posts: 13
    Tommy needs to pull up G-12, thats all I know

    Rather, Tommy needs to show the Israelis how to pull up G-12, now that W has sent them a bunch of them.
  • Infinity_Now
    Infinity_Now Posts: 188
    rod_farva wrote:
    Tommy needs to pull up G-12, thats all I know

    Rather, Tommy needs to show the Israelis how to pull up G-12, now that W has sent them a bunch of them.

    It's been a long, hard, heavily caffeinated night...

    ...that makes this a perfect morning for a little Bill Hicks and, at last - a glass of water!
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    jsand wrote:
    Wow. Just when I think the loony left can't get any worse...
    Do you live in the terrorists' minds? How can you possibly say that "they are fighting for their security and freedom from oppression?" You say this as if there aren't a good deal of terrorists whose only goal is the destruction of Israel because it is Jewish - this is the case with Hezbollah and Hamas, for example. But you'll choose to ignore it. Start living in reality.


    No, I say this as if there are a good deal of terrorists whose goal is the destruction of Israel because it is Zionist, and expansionist, and continues to carry out an illegal military occupation. The majority of these terrorist groups you are referring to demand that Israel return to the pre 1967 borders. I.e, they demand that Israel abide by international law. But then, these things don't count in your scheme of things because you have a purely one-eyed view of the world. You'd make a great politician - the ability to block out facts which are troublesome to your view of the world, and the ability to convince yourself that you're right even when you know you are wrong.
  • sliverstain
    sliverstain Posts: 340
    jsand wrote:
    Wow. Just when I think the loony left can't get any worse...
    Do you live in the terrorists' minds? How can you possibly say that "they are fighting for their security and freedom from oppression?" You say this as if there aren't a good deal of terrorists whose only goal is the destruction of Israel because it is Jewish - this is the case with Hezbollah and Hamas, for example. But you'll choose to ignore it. Start living in reality.


    Personally, as somebody who has left leaning political views and ideals, i find this post grossly insulting.

    Are there any mods on today? Do they even watch out for breaches of the Message Pit sign up agreement ?
    The world's greatest empires progress through this sequence:From bondage to spiritual faith; spiritual faith to great courage; courage to liberty;liberty to abundance;abundance to selfishness; selfishness to complacency;complacency to apathy;apathy to dependence;dependency back again into bondage
  • Infinity_Now
    Infinity_Now Posts: 188
    Yeah - hold on, let's not censor "jsand" just because we disagree.

    If there were no argument, then there wouldn't be a proper forum for voices to be heard and for ideas/opinions to be formulated in response to possible opposition/contradictory veiws/statements...

    *looks back at what I just typed*

    Yeah, too much coffee, and it's not wearing off...

    "And if I had a clue I'd know exactly
    What to do
    If I were the wiser of the two

    And if I saw it all so clear
    I'd write it down and bend your ear
    If I were the clearer of the two

    We could take a walk into the
    Canyons of 5th avenue
    Sing and dance... just to name a few

    All I do
    All I do

    And if I heard the angels sing I'd
    Sing it back to you and bring the
    Sound of heaven ringing just for you

    And if I saw the sun fall down
    I'd pick it up and make a crown
    One that was a perfect fit for you

    We could take a walk
    Into the apple orchard by the school
    We could make a little residue

    We could find a place to stay
    A secret little hide away
    Spend a little time inside of you

    All I do
    All I do

    All eyes
    All eyes
    All eyes on you

    All I do
    All I do
    All I do
    All I do"

    RHCP - Stadium Arcadium - great midnight/early morning companion.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Infinity_Now wrote:
    Yeah - hold on, let's not censor "jsand" just because we disagree.

    If there were no argument, then there wouldn't be a proper forum for voices to be heard and for ideas/opinions to be formulated in response to possible opposition/contradictory veiws/statements...

    *looks back at what I just typed*

    Yeah, too much coffee, and it's not wearing off...

    "And if I had a clue I'd know exactly
    What to do
    If I were the wiser of the two

    And if I saw it all so clear
    I'd write it down and bend your ear
    If I were the clearer of the two

    We could take a walk into the
    Canyons of 5th avenue
    Sing and dance... just to name a few

    All I do
    All I do

    And if I heard the angels sing I'd
    Sing it back to you and bring the
    Sound of heaven ringing just for you

    And if I saw the sun fall down
    I'd pick it up and make a crown
    One that was a perfect fit for you

    We could take a walk
    Into the apple orchard by the school
    We could make a little residue

    We could find a place to stay
    A secret little hide away
    Spend a little time inside of you

    All I do
    All I do

    All eyes
    All eyes
    All eyes on you

    All I do
    All I do
    All I do
    All I do"

    RHCP - Stadium Arcadium - great midnight/early morning companion.

    So your in favour of a middle east sing song then? ;)
  • dg1979us
    dg1979us Posts: 568
    Infinity_Now wrote:
    Speaking of Israel oppressing people, well, they do oppress their own citizens, they seem to also be quite keen on oppressing their own soldiers:

    http://gnn.tv/articles/2480/Another_IDF_Refusenik_Jailed

    You probably won't ever see Hezbollah jail one of their own soldiers, a largely voluntary force. Do Hezbollah even have jails? I'm not saying they're any more civilized, but I am saying Israel is NO MORE civilized...

    For some reason you keep acting as I am an Israeli apologist, when I have consistently said I dont agree with their methods of defense in this situation, and consistently acknowledged that they certainly have had blood on their hands in many situations over the years. I do agree with anyone having the right to defend themselves, but I dont agree with the manner Israel is doing that. It is possible to think both sides are wrong ya know. Of course I dont agree with what your article is saying, but that doesnt change my point about any of this a bit.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    dg1979us wrote:
    For some reason you keep acting as I am an Israeli apologist, when I have consistently said I dont agree with their methods of defense in this situation, and consistently acknowledged that they certainly have had blood on their hands in many situations over the years. I do agree with anyone having the right to defend themselves, but I dont agree with the manner Israel is doing that. It is possible to think both sides are wrong ya know. Of course I dont agree with what your article is saying, but that doesnt change my point about any of this a bit.

    As Chomsky has said: "Israel certainly has a right to defend itself, but no state has the right to "defend" occupied territories."
  • dg1979us
    dg1979us Posts: 568
    Byrnzie wrote:
    As Chomsky has said: "Israel certainly has a right to defend itself, but no state has the right to "defend" occupied territories."

    So they should just let the missles pelt them on a daily basis with no response?
  • Infinity_Now
    Infinity_Now Posts: 188
    dg1979us wrote:
    For some reason you keep acting as I am an Israeli apologist, when I have consistently said I dont agree with their methods of defense in this situation, and consistently acknowledged that they certainly have had blood on their hands in many situations over the years. I do agree with anyone having the right to defend themselves, but I dont agree with the manner Israel is doing that. It is possible to think both sides are wrong ya know. Of course I dont agree with what your article is saying, but that doesnt change my point about any of this a bit.


    Wait, wait, wait - initially your response utterly confused me - I really try, in every possible way, never to compel or corrode either personal bias or persons in particular.

    I think I see what the matter is.

    I keep using "you," in the third person, referring to a broad general audience - and not, "you," referring to the person/poster I'm responding to!

    Sorry for the confusion, but I wasn't referring to, "you."

    Oh, boy...
    I blame the Starbucks corporation.
  • dg1979us
    dg1979us Posts: 568
    Infinity_Now wrote:
    Wait, wait, wait - initially your response utterly confused me - I really try, in every possible way, never to compel or corrode either personal bias or persons in particular.

    I think I see what the matter is.

    I keep using "you," in the third person, referring to a broad general audience - and not, "you," referring to the person/poster I'm responding to!

    Sorry for the confusion, but I wasn't referring to, "you."

    Oh, boy...
    I blame the Starbucks corporation.

    No problem, message boards can get confusing at times.
  • Infinity_Now
    Infinity_Now Posts: 188
    dg1979us wrote:
    So they should just let the missles pelt them on a daily basis with no response?

    As I've said before - non-violence is just as just a response.

    In fact, it should be whole heartedly considered, with great weight! Because I think, if non-violence is pursued by one side, the other will be compelled by nothing short of a universally harmonic human condition to follow.

    If one gorup does defy an act of non-violence, like Hitler might... most definitly would have - THEN, IS THE ONLY TIME FOR FORCE.

    Hezbollah just want their land back, it's not too hard to see that. That is at least one of their conditions and probably a great majority of their motive. Israeli's, Lebanese - they all pray for peace.
  • lalalalaaaaaaaa
    lalalalaaaaaaaa Posts: 2,445
    I saw that video last night. I think it's good to try and put the story in perspective, but saying "Hezbollah is not a terrorist organization" is going too far. Hezbollah, just like Israeli leadership, advocates and carries out terrorism. This propaganda war going on is a war nobody benefits from. The truth should be good enough.
  • dg1979us
    dg1979us Posts: 568
    Infinity_Now wrote:
    As I've said before - non-violence is just as just a response.

    In fact, it should be whole heartedly considered, with great weight! Because I think, if non-violence is pursued by one side, the other will be compelled by nothing short of a universally harmonic human condition to follow.

    If one gorup does defy an act of non-violence, like Hitler might... most definitly would have - THEN, IS THE ONLY TIME FOR FORCE.

    Hezbollah just want their land back, it's not too hard to see that. That is at least one of their conditions and probably a great majority of their motive. Israeli's, Lebanese - they all pray for peace.


    Hezbollah has no land, and has never had land. Hezbollah is a organization created in the 80s. If we were talking about Palestine, and not Hezbollah, I would be much quicker to agree with you. But we are talking about a 20 year old terrorist organization that has never been a country or legit government, and has never possessed land, they simply operate out of another countrys land, which obviously in this case would be Lebanon.
  • Infinity_Now
    Infinity_Now Posts: 188
    dg1979us wrote:
    Hezbollah has no land, and has never had land. Hezbollah is a organization created in the 80s. If we were talking about Palestine, and not Hezbollah, I would be much quicker to agree with you. But we are talking about a 20 year old terrorist organization that has never been a country or legit government, and has never possessed land, they simply operate out of another countrys land, which obviously in this case would be Lebanon.

    An interesting POV...
  • dg1979us
    dg1979us Posts: 568
    Infinity_Now wrote:
    An interesting POV...

    I would also suggest that it is actually in the Lebanese interest for Hezbollah to be dismantled and defeated. As long as Hezbollah has the military power, and after this ordeal quite possibly a much wider influence, then the Lebanese government is more or less a figure head with no power or control over their own country. And I dont think the citizens of Lebanon would benefit from a society completely controlled by Hezbollah.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    dg1979us wrote:
    So they should just let the missles pelt them on a daily basis with no response?

    They should abide by international law and withdraw from the occupied territories, and then start talking about right and wrong.
  • dg1979us
    dg1979us Posts: 568
    Byrnzie wrote:
    They should abide by international law and withdraw from the occupied territories, and then start talking about right and wrong.

    I dont disagree. Can you not equally apply that to Hezbollah? They are more or less a group funded by Iran and Syria and operating out of Lebanon. Is that not occupation of sorts?
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    dg1979us wrote:
    I dont disagree. Can you not equally apply that to Hezbollah? They are more or less a group funded by Iran and Syria and operating out of Lebanon. Is that not occupation of sorts?

    Of course. Hizbollah should stop firing rockets into Israel. On the other hand, we ourselves need to stop fuelling the flames of terrorism by engaging in state terrorism ourselves and provoking these people.

    Controversially, it could be said Israel is more or less a group funded by the U.S and operating out of Palestine.

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