Educate me!

Riot_Rain · June 2006

So what books should I read to be able to have an informed opinion on world politics and the issues of war, poverty and hunger? Recommendations, please!

Can find stuff on my own of course, but am interested in what other people have read

EDIT: After reading Danmac's post... By an informed opinion I mean my own feelings and opinions, as well as other people's points of view as written down in studies/novels/biographies... Hence the request for recommendations

danmac · June 2006

Riot_Rain wrote:

So what books should I read to be able to have an informed opinion on world politics and the issues of war, poverty and hunger? Recommendations, please!

Can find stuff on my own of course, but am interested in what other people have read

Facts, sometimes, come from books. Opinions from the heart.

After all, what opinion about war, poverty and hunger can you have other than that they are wrong and unnecessary? Do you need a third person, a person you do not nor ever will know, to tell you this?

Not to get all spiritual and Zen on you, but sit down, close your eyes, and imagine fragments of sharp hot metal severing your limbs from your body, peppering your torso, burning the flesh from your skin. Imagine looking up as your body burns and seeing a man with a gun and a uniform coming towards you. However that makes you feel, that's your opinion on war.

Rinse and repeat for hunger and poverty. Talk to a homeless man, wash the feet of a beggar. Imagine not going to the store for three days and having to stand out in the sun for a week without food or water. Or shelter.
However that makes you feel, that's your opinion on poverty and hunger.

As for the reasons these things exist, that's a whole different ball game!

Riot_Rain · June 2006

Let me re-phrase it for you Danmac.

On the topics of war, poverty and hunger, I have opinions and feelings. I also know a fair amount of facts.

I am interested in other people's opinions on these topics and politics, to learn about their points of view and to learn more facts. There are a lot of wise, interesting, stupid, revolting people out there you know. And yes, people's opinions on the reasons war/poverty/hunger exist, are exactly what I'm after. I guess you got the point of my post after all.

So the lecture on experiencing war and poverty was not necessary, but I'm glad you got it out of your system. Any BOOKS you can recommend?

danmac wrote:

Facts, sometimes, come from books. Opinions from the heart.

After all, what opinion about war, poverty and hunger can you have other than that they are wrong and unnecessary? Do you need a third person, a person you do not nor ever will know, to tell you this?

Not to get all spiritual and Zen on you, but sit down, close your eyes, and imagine fragments of sharp hot metal severing your limbs from your body, peppering your torso, burning the flesh from your skin. Imagine looking up as your body burns and seeing a man with a gun and a uniform coming towards you. However that makes you feel, that's your opinion on war.

Rinse and repeat for hunger and poverty. Talk to a homeless man, wash the feet of a beggar. Imagine not going to the store for three days and having to stand out in the sun for a week without food or water. Or shelter.
However that makes you feel, that's your opinion on poverty and hunger.

As for the reasons these things exist, that's a whole different ball game!

darkcrow · June 2006

heagemony or survival is a rather good one

globalization and its discontents is also good but very economic heavy so you need to concentrate a lot

fast food nation. a very good look at the fast food industry.

lies and the lying liars that tell them. that was quite funny and interesting.

danmac · June 2006

Well little miss aggravation, I do apologise!

Riot_Rain wrote:

Let me re-phrase it for you Danmac.

On the topics of war, poverty and hunger, I have opinions and feelings. I also know a fair amount of facts.

I am interested in other people's opinions on these topics and politics, to learn about their points of view and to learn more facts. There are a lot of wise, interesting, stupid, revolting people out there you know. And yes, people's opinions on the reasons war/poverty/hunger exist, are exactly what I'm after. I guess you got the point of my post after all.

So the lecture on experiencing war and poverty was not necessary, but I'm glad you got it out of your system. Any BOOKS you can recommend?

On the topics of war, poverty and hunger, I have opinions and feelings. I also know a fair amount of facts.

Ok, lets remember that one. Can I quote again?

Riot_Rain wrote:

So what books should I read to be able to have an informed opinion on world politics and the issues of war, poverty and hunger? Recommendations, please!

Can find stuff on my own of course, but am interested in what other people have read

EDIT: After reading Danmac's post... By an informed opinion I mean my own feelings and opinions, as well as other people's points of view as written down in studies/novels/biographies... Hence the request for recommendations

So what books should I read to be able to have an informed opinion on world politics and the issues of war, poverty and hunger? Recommendations, please!

One hand says you you need an informed opinion you do not have, then the other says you have them. Which is it? DO you have them, but just don't believe in them? What is it?

To search out books is good, but only a small part, and doesn't really give you an uptodate view on something. Books are written about the past. Most of the time at least a year passes between a book being written and it hitting the shelves.

Wars have started and been fought in less time. I'd say th ebest way to gauge opinion about a CURRENT situation, is through the media, ALL of it, the mainstream and the independent, in ordre to get a balanced picture. THere is bullshit on both sides, but also alot of good. I'd say turn off FOX or CNN though, until the political climate changes for the better. And in these days of the internet, there is no excuse for just relying on the TV for news.

But, for a greater understanding of ongoing problems, I echo Darkcrows list above, and add the following, as a taster.

George Monbiot - The Age of Consent, and, The Captive State.
Greg Palast - The Best Democracy Money Can buy
Antonio Negri / Michael Hardt - Empire, and, Multitude
Antonio Negri - Time for Revolution
Anti-Capitalism - Emma Birchgam John Charlton
Why do People Hate America
Greg Critser - Fat Land
Our Word is our Weapon - Subcommandante Marcos

There are older works that are still very relative today.

Karl Marx - Capital
Thomas Paine - Rights of Man and Common Sense
HG Weaver - The Mainspring of Human Progress
Trotsky - Terrorism and Communism, and The History of The Russian Revolution

Oh and try George Orwell for a fictional slant on politics. Animal Farm, and especially 1984. The parallels with todays US/UK bureaucratic police states are frightening.

Good luck, and enjoy.

And please, can somebody somewhere, switch off the damned edit post button? Kinda makes a mockery of a 'Discussion board' when people can return to their posts and change them in an attempt to discredit another. Very inane, especially as some of us are only trying to help.

PaperPlates · June 2006

danmac wrote:

Well little miss aggravation, I do apologise!

On the topics of war, poverty and hunger, I have opinions and feelings. I also know a fair amount of facts.

Ok, lets remember that one. Can I quote again?

So what books should I read to be able to have an informed opinion on world politics and the issues of war, poverty and hunger? Recommendations, please!

One hand says you you need an informed opinion you do not have, then the other says you have them. Which is it? DO you have them, but just don't believe in them? What is it?

To search out books is good, but only a small part, and doesn't really give you an uptodate view on something. Books are written about the past. Most of the time at least a year passes between a book being written and it hitting the shelves.

Wars have started and been fought in less time. I'd say th ebest way to gauge opinion about a CURRENT situation, is through the media, ALL of it, the mainstream and the independent, in ordre to get a balanced picture. THere is bullshit on both sides, but also alot of good. I'd say turn off FOX or CNN though, until the political climate changes for the better. And in these days of the internet, there is no excuse for just relying on the TV for news.

But, for a greater understanding of ongoing problems, I echo Darkcrows list above, and add the following, as a taster.

George Monbiot - The Age of Consent, and, The Captive State.
Greg Palast - The Best Democracy Money Can buy
Antonio Negri / Michael Hardt - Empire, and, Multitude
Antonio Negri - Time for Revolution
Anti-Capitalism - Emma Birchgam John Charlton
Why do People Hate America
Greg Critser - Fat Land
Our Word is our Weapon - Subcommandante Marcos

There are older works that are still very relative today.

Karl Marx - Capital
Thomas Paine - Rights of Man and Common Sense
HG Weaver - The Mainspring of Human Progress
Trotsky - Terrorism and Communism, and The History of The Russian Revolution

Oh and try George Orwell for a fictional slant on politics. Animal Farm, and especially 1984. The parallels with todays US/UK bureaucratic police states are frightening.

Good luck, and enjoy.

And please, can somebody somewhere, switch off the damned edit post button? Kinda makes a mockery of a 'Discussion board' when people can return to their posts and change them in an attempt to discredit another. Very inane, especially as some of us are only trying to help.

You dont have a lot of friends do you dan?

Riot_Rain wrote:

I don't understand why you feel the need to lecture another message board user who is trying to learn more. Jeez. So much for my positive attempt to keep learning. You made and make me feel like I should be mocked for trying to do so

All he wants is the truth.

http://www.heritage.org/about/community/insider/reading_list.html

Read some of those.

Riot_Rain · June 2006

danmac wrote:

One hand says you you need an informed opinion you do not have, then the other says you have them. Which is it? DO you have them, but just don't believe in them? What is it?

And please, can somebody somewhere, switch off the damned edit post button? Kinda makes a mockery of a 'Discussion board' when people can return to their posts and change them in an attempt to discredit another. Very inane, especially as some of us are only trying to help.

Thanks for the recommendations, Danmac.

I edited my first post, as I learned from your reply and wanted to make clearer what I meant. I only mentioned you in my first post, to explain the edit. No discrediting there.

As to informed opinions: I merely meant to get some more info to learn more. Whether or not I already had an informed opinion is not a question, you can always get more informed.

I don't understand why you feel the need to lecture another message board user who is trying to learn more. Jeez. So much for my positive attempt to keep learning. You made and make me feel like I should be mocked for trying to do so

Puck78 · June 2006

danmac wrote:

Not to get all spiritual and Zen on you, but sit down, close your eyes, and imagine fragments of sharp hot metal severing your limbs from your body, peppering your torso, burning the flesh from your skin. Imagine looking up as your body burns and seeing a man with a gun and a uniform coming towards you. However that makes you feel, that's your opinion on war.

don't forget to include the fact that war is not only about killing but also: lost of your home, living years without running water, without electricity (7 years after the war in kosovo and they still don't have full time electricity), ethnic tensions, mines, unemployement, zero industry, zero agricolture

danmac · June 2006

Riot_Rain wrote:

Thanks for the recommendations, Danmac.

I edited my first post, as I learned from your reply and wanted to make clearer what I meant. I only mentioned you in my first post, to explain the edit. No discrediting there.

As to informed opinions: I merely meant to get some more info to learn more. Whether or not I already had an informed opinion is not a question, you can always get more informed.

I don't understand why you feel the need to lecture another message board user who is trying to learn more. Jeez. So much for my positive attempt to keep learning. You made and make me feel like I should be mocked for trying to do so

Hey, who's lecturing? I only responded to the literal meaning of your post.

"to be able to have an informed opinion" is what you said.

Sorry to get all semantic and bring linguistics into this, you were asking specifically for ways to gain for yourself an opinion. I merely demonstrated a way how by following the exact meaning of your phrase. Not my fault you went and edited the original post, which then muddies the waters for anybody else reading the htread, making it lokk as If i was at fault.

Strange place this sometimes!

o·pin·ion (-pnyn)
n.
1. A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof: "The world is not run by thought, nor by imagination, but by opinion" Elizabeth Drew.
2. A judgment based on special knowledge and given by an expert: a medical opinion.
3. A judgment or estimation of the merit of a person or thing: has a low opinion of braggarts.
4. The prevailing view: public opinion.
5. Law A formal statement by a court or other adjudicative body of the legal reasons and principles for the conclusions of the court.

Oh and that list paperstates listed. It almost had me. Almost had me thinking that yeah, this list couldpresent a balanced view on both sides of the issues. Then I got to this.

Reagan, In His Own Hand: The Writings of Ronald Reagan That Reveal His Revolutionary Vision for America by Ronald Reagan, Martin Anderson, Annelise Anderson, and Kiron Skiner

and this

The Right Moment: Ronald Reagan's First Victory and the Decisive Turning Point in American Politics by Matthew Dallek

then th ekiller

Wealth and Poverty by George Gilder

“It swept across my mind like a fresh wind that blows away the cobwebs. For capitalism was something I had not thought about, and Gilder sought to explain just what it was that capitalists did for their fellow men by so vividly demonstrating that the world's wealth was not something being exploited but something being created --and being created for others by the very men, i.e., the capitalists, who had all my life been subject to the terrible combination of murderous envy and contumely. We all nowadays speak with admiration of something called "capitalism" (though that, too, was a long time coming) but that there were people called capitalists who were responsible for giving us this admirable thing--ah, that was something to be learned for the first time from George Gilder. To this day it is a lesson that needs teaching: to the press, to the politicians, and to the capitalists themselves.” – Midge Decter

Riot_Rain · June 2006

danmac wrote:

Hey, who's lecturing? I only responded to the literal meaning of your post.

"to be able to have an informed opinion" is what you said.

Sorry to get all semantic and bring linguistics into this, you were asking specifically for ways to gain for yourself an opinion. I merely demonstrated a way how by following the exact meaning of your phrase. Not my fault you went and edited the original post, which then muddies the waters for anybody else reading the htread, making it lokk as If i was at fault.

Strange place this sometimes!

I edited to make myself clearer and in my opinion this does not make it look as if you were at fault. All it does is show people that it wasn't clear before as they can see from anything written before and after EDIT: etc and your first reply. I was trying to make sure the rest of the posts would be about books.

You're not lecturing you say, but now you feel the need to go into my original linguistic error (well, misadventure) and start quoting from the dictionary!

You put the informed opinion bit under your linguistic microscope, but you ignore the bit where I asked people to recommend books. So I could have been clearer about how I form my opinion, that is true. Sorry! But I don't think it's any reason to be this nasty (sorry, but quoting the dictionary is nasty!).

ajedigecko · June 2006

many titles by Albert Schwietzer have been good. I think you will enjoy what he accomplished, given the talents he was blessed with.

PRfCTlYUNkPTCLtHs · June 2006

I don't read too many books on politics But I did read Anderson Cooper's, "Dispatches from the Edge" Keep in mind this book is one man's journey..based more on his opinions. But by the end of the book..it's as if you went with him on his journey all over the world. It's a good read.

surferdude · June 2006

Puck78 wrote:

don't forget to include the fact that war is not only about killing but also: lost of your home, living years without running water, without electricity (7 years after the war in kosovo and they still don't have full time electricity), ethnic tensions, mines, unemployement, zero industry, zero agricolture

Don't forget that war has also ended genocides, totalitarism rulers, fascist rulers. War has ensured the continuation of freedom and democracy.

danmac · June 2006

surferdude wrote:

Don't forget that war has also ended genocides, totalitarism rulers, fascist rulers. War has ensured the continuation of freedom and democracy.

The victors version of it, no?

farfromglorified · June 2006

surferdude wrote:

War has ensured the continuation of freedom and democracy.

Except freedom from war. Except freedom from the state. Except freedom from the majority.

surferdude · June 2006

farfromglorified wrote:

Except freedom from war. Except freedom from the state. Except freedom from the majority.

I was just too lazy to put an asterick to denote freedoms as we have come to know them. Our freedoms definitely have many limitations and some responsibilities.

farfromglorified · June 2006

surferdude wrote:

I was just too lazy to put an asterick to denote freedoms as we have come to know them.

Cool.

Our ???????? definitely have many limitations and some responsibilities.

There's one word that can't possibly fit in that sentence.

Puck78 · June 2006

I suggest you the books of Naomi Klein. Even if some of them could sound a bit out of date (no logo was written before 1999, when the anti-capitalism movement hit the streets in seattle) you can see how a lot of her predictions (for example all the precariety in the job world) became true. See her page on windows and fences in nologo.org, it is amazing

Puck78 · June 2006

danmac wrote:

The victors version of it, no?

also the version of a shallow-someone that has never been in a post-conflict zone...

Riot_Rain · June 2006

Puck78 wrote:

I suggest you the books of Naomi Klein. Even if some of them could sound a bit out of date (no logo was written before 1999, when the anti-capitalism movement hit the streets in seattle) you can see how a lot of her predictions (for example all the precariety in the job world) became true. See her page on windows and fences in nologo.org, it is amazing

I read the page, very interesting indeed

Thanks!

UKDave · June 2006

surferdude wrote:

Don't forget that war has also ended genocides, totalitarism rulers, fascist rulers. War has ensured the continuation of freedom and democracy.

It has also caused genocide, totalitarian / facist rulers and destroyed freedon and democracy it is not just a used for good, it is used for change...

Educate me!

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