Israel, US, and Abbas want peace...Hamas doesn't

Byrnzie wrote:

And there's a reason I go on about this issue as much as I do. I think it represents the core of U.S - and largely western - hypocrisy and corruption in the world. It's the main flame fuelling much of the strife across the western world. It's a perfect example of our double standards and of the subservience of the media to big business and the government.

But you are preaching to the choir. I agree with you on this point. Israel has largly been held unaccoutable for their actions while the Palestinians, in the US mostly, shoulder all the responsibility for the situation there.

jlew24asu wrote:

I have no idea why you keep avoiding it.

Avoiding it? Kind of like how you have avoided many of his posts in this topic including the one above the one you just quoted that responded to your post?

jlew24asu wrote:

I have and will continue to call out Israel when they are in the wrong. so you for to say I ignore Israel is pure bullshit. Israel is illegally occupying some land. Israel shouldn't have secret prisons. Israel retaliates much to harshly to hamas resistance.

That's the thing. You don't understand what I'm trying to say. I never said you agree with everything israel does. The thing about you, however, is (I feel like I repeat myself way too often) that you post an entire article and condemn everything Hamas does and stands for and your post is made up of just you attacking Hamas (and Byrnzie...) and then you throw in a little sentence that says "Oh, and Israel is wrong too." just to prove you "aren't biased." That's what the news media does, and that's what you do. It's wrong in both cases, and pretty much bullshit.

An example is your last post where you posted an entire thing abotu Hamas, and then threw in:

feel free to post whatever links you want about Israel. I will call them out for being scumbags too. difference is, hamas can do no wrong in your eyes. pity.

hamas ideology along with other islamic extremist groups is to kill themselves in the name of allah.

There aren't any such things as Israeli extremist groups or anything. That'd just be ridiculous. Only Muslims have extremist groups that kill themselves and civilians in the name of God. Not to mention the fact that they are trying to get their land and homes back. And stop an occupation that's claimed thousands of lives, and jailed countless more.

You act as if they have alternative ways to get their land back. Like they choose to do it this way.

Israel is getting along just fine with fatah and the ENTIRE west bank. don't tell me Israel isnt capable of peace. up until this point hamas is not.

Quit avoiding Byrnzie's posts. He replied to this.

first of all, I'll say whatever the fuck I want.

uh, go ahead. I wasn't actually telling you you aren't allowed to say what you want. I was trying to say what you are saying is false, and so you shouldn't say it anymore. If you don't mind spitting out bullshit, by all means do it. Just understand that at the end of the day, it's bullshit.

second of all, hamas is the only party preventing peace.

That's the funny thing. You sit here pretending you aren't biased and just talk about how Israel is wrong too, but then just say something like this, which is completely untrue, and you know it. (unless you're just an idiot, but I like to hope that the poeple I debate with aren't idiots, otherwise i'm wasting my time here.)

Israel has a right to exist regardless if you, byzine and hamas don't believe so. and I'm allow an opinion too, a valid one.

Neither me, nor ByRnzie, nor anyone said Israel doesn't have the right to exist. right now, when we refer to israel, we refer to the government and it's occupation that it has placed over Palestine. Not the people, not the "jews" (since I feel like you also sometimes try to make us out to be anti-semetic) and not any innocent people in Israel. Only the poeple that have violated many war crimes, and has played a role in the occupation do I see as wrong, and doesn't have the right to exist.

Once you understand that, AND PLEASE UNDERSTAND THAT SO I DON'T HAVE TO WRITE THE SAME SHIT AGAIN, maybe you'll get what we are trying to say.

And I never said you aren't allowed an opinion. I just think you got your facts wrong.

Now, I'm really sick of saying this, and I didn't want this post to be too long, but you guys seriously need to understand this:

All I ever hear in criticism of Israel is "excessive defense attacks" when many of their attacks are not in defense, but offensive attacks. Byrnzie has posted tons of examples to this. You guys always seem to miss this point. Israel does not always defend itself, and most of the time it provokes the Palestinians.

Also, seeing as how Israel has targeted, jailed, and killed way more civilians, why are they not considered 'terrorists'? Isn't that what a 'terrorist' is? How come only Hamas are the 'terrorists' and Israel is just 'defending itself, but a little too much'?

Additionally, mammasan, I don't really think this is comparable to the Civil Rights movement at all. Blacks at the time were fighting so that there would be no more segregation, they weren't fighting for land and they weren't trying to get their homes back. It's a different situation.

It's more comparable to many of the comparisons that have been made in this topic that jlew shrugged off as "different time, different land, different people" or some other bullshit of that sort.

This post was longer than I wanted it to be...