Israel, US, and Abbas want peace...Hamas doesn't

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  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    jlew24asu wrote:
    they are many people on this board who have all out hatred for you and your country.

    This is pure horseshit.
    Vedjam. Nobody on this board that I've ever encountered has '...all out hatred for you and your country'.
    There are many people on this board who feel disgusted at the blatent hypocrisy and the crimes being committed by, both the Israeli and U.S governments, however.
    Jlew is one of a few people on this board with nothing productive to add to the debate, other than that Hamas - or whoever else happens to be the current Palestinian whipping boys at the time - are the guilty ones in all of this.
    To say that Hamas is preventing peace is pathetic. Absolutely pathetic.
    I suppose that in Jlew's view of the world, it was the French resistance who were preventing peace during the Nazi occupation..
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    Blame Balfour. It's his fault.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    MrSmith wrote:
    They still refuse to recognise Israel, still attack Israel, and still have no interest in peace with Israel.

    They have every right to refuse to recognise Israel as long as Israel continues the occupation. To say they recognise Israel is tantamount to saying that they recognise Israel in it's current form - settlements and all.
    Secondly, they have every right to attack Israel. It's a valid resistance against a brutal occupation.
    Thirdly, how do you know Hamas isn't interested in peace with Israel? Israel refuses to negotiate with them. Until they do, your comment is groundless.

    Still, a nice display of flatulence there.
    Thanks!
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    I hope this is accurate. I've never actually read it before

    November 2nd, 1917

    Dear Lord Rothschild:

    I have much pleasure in conveying to you. on behalf of His Majesty's
    Government, the following declaration of sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations which has been submitted to, and approved by, the Cabinet:

    His Majesty's Government view with favor the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavors to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.

    I should be grateful if you would bring this declaration to the knowledge
    of the Zionist Federation.

    Yours,
    Arthur James Balfour
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Ahnimus wrote:
    I hope this is accurate. I've never actually read it before

    November 2nd, 1917

    Dear Lord Rothschild:

    I have much pleasure in conveying to you. on behalf of His Majesty's
    Government, the following declaration of sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations which has been submitted to, and approved by, the Cabinet:

    His Majesty's Government view with favor the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavors to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.

    I should be grateful if you would bring this declaration to the knowledge
    of the Zionist Federation.

    Yours,
    Arthur James Balfour


    '...it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine...'
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    Byrnzie wrote:
    '...it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine...'

    Yea, it seems Arthur's heart was in the right place, but maybe he was a bit naive about group behavior.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Byrnzie wrote:
    This is pure horseshit.
    Vedjam. Nobody on this board that I've ever encountered has '...all out hatred for you and your country'.
    There are many people on this board who feel disgusted at the blatent hypocrisy and the crimes being committed by your Government, however.
    Jlew is one of a few people on this board with nothing productive to add to the debate, other than that Hamas - or whoever else happens to be the current Palestinian whipping boys at the time - are the guilty ones in all of this.
    To say that Hamas is preventing peace is pathetic. Absolutely pathetic.
    I suppose that in Jlew's view of the world, it was the French resistance who were preventing peace during the Nazi occupation..

    yup, you have it right. Hamas is the party preventing peace. they will not rescongize Israel, renounce violence, or take "destruction of Israel" from their charter.

    you keep crying about this illegal occupation. Israel is not going to go back to the 1967 borders. that would mean they would give up jerusalem. that isnt going to happen. a war happened in 1967 and the borders changed.

    so guess what, both sides are going to have to compromise. in this matter you seem to have no idea what this words means.....its 1967 borders or death.

    http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/compromise

    they can only come to a compromise if they talk.


    and its so nice of you to be so friendly to the jewish guy. hopefully he'll stick around this board long enough (or search yours posts) to see how you really feel.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    jlew24asu wrote:
    you keep crying about this illegal occupation. Israel is not going to go back to the 1967 borders. that would mean they would give up jerusalem.

    It wouldn't mean giving up Jerusalem at all. Again, you're just spouting shit. Jerusalem was already divided in 1967.
    http://www.iris.org.il/borders.htm
    jlew24asu wrote:
    and its so nice of you to be so friendly to the jewish guy. hopefully he'll stick around this board long enough (or search yours posts) to see how you really feel.

    Feel free to provide just one example of my '...all out hatred for Vedjam and his country'
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Feel free to provide just one example of my '...all out hatred for Vedjam and his country'

    I'm still waiting Jlew. :rolleyes:
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Byrnzie wrote:
    It wouldn't mean giving up Jerusalem at all. Again, you're just spouting shit. Jerusalem was already divided in 1967.
    http://www.iris.org.il/borders.htm
    it would give up east jerusalem. a split is possible, but again that can only happen if they sit and talk about it. firing rockets from gaza wont accomplish anything. amazing to me why you and hamas cant come to terms with that.

    to take a que from you, I thought this was a good article written in 2000.....seems a little hawkish, but some of the settlements are permanent. changed hands after a lost war.


    http://www.iht.com/articles/2000/06/27/eduri.t.php

    Sorry folks, you're a little late. We kept the territories empty for you, but you procrastinated. Today there is no way for us to tell the 20,000 residents of Ma'ale Adumim, for example, a burgeoning city east of Jerusalem, to pack up and leave. Forget it! Disbanding some settlements — probably the smaller, remote ones — may be a possibility. But not much more.

    The question is whether the Palestinians will today insist on clinging to that zero sum game, which has only brought them losses and disasters, or adopt a more pragmatic approach, realizing that what was feasible yesterday is unfortunately not possible today. Trying to force our hand through another round of bloodshed will lead to nothing except more waste of lives. It never worked in the past, and it won't work today.


    Byrnzie wrote:
    Feel free to provide just one example of my '...all out hatred for Vedjam and his country'

    he's a big boy, he can do his own research on you.
  • fuck
    fuck Posts: 4,069
    jlew24asu wrote:
    Today there is no way for us to tell the 20,000 residents of Ma'ale Adumim, for example, a burgeoning city east of Jerusalem, to pack up and leave. Forget it!

    They were able to take thousands of Palestinians out of their homes without a reason, atleast this would have a reason behind it that can solve many things.
    he's a big boy, he can do his own research on you.

    well if you are making accusations, you should provide examples on them. As far as I know, VedJam, no one hates you or your country. They just disagree with how your government has been acting.

    Saying one hates Israelis based on their government is like saying you hate all Americans because you don't like the Bush Administration.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    jlew24asu wrote:
    http://www.iht.com/articles/2000/06/27/eduri.t.php


    You're right about one thing; It is more than a little hawkish. It is also full of inaccuracies and distortions of the facts.

    'We kept the territories empty for you...'

    'Wow! How generous of you! You mean you chose not to steal their land?

    'Trying to force our hand through another round of bloodshed will lead to nothing except more waste of lives. It never worked in the past, and it won't work today.'

    This is why the Palestinians have engaged in countless 'peace treaty's', and 'Peace accords' as mediated by Israels biggest sponsor - the U.S - only to be presented with totally unacceptable proposals, or just outright rebuffal.


    '...Twenty years later, they attacked Israel again and lost again'.

    This is a lie, as I've already demonstrated earlier in this thread.

    And the creme de la creme of the article is this:

    'Over time, Israel began to build settlements in the territories, despite its original desire to keep them only for use as bargaining chips in future peace negotiations. Some Israelis settled there for ideological reasons. The territories, after all, comprise the biblical Judaea and Samaria. Others settled there for economic reasons. One way or another, today some 150,000 Israelis live there in small villages as well as in fairly substantial cities. All were established as a result of, and are monuments to, decades of Arab rejection of peace with Israel.'

    This is the equivalent of saying "You don't like us stealing your land and killing your citizens at will, therefore we are going to steal more of your land and kill more of you, as punishment for your insolence!"
    jlew24asu wrote:
    he's a big boy, he can do his own research on you.

    As I suspected. Your comment was pure cack.
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    Byrnzie wrote:
    As I suspected. Your comment was pure cack.

    That must have been a tough one.
    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    Byrnzie wrote:
    It was just pure guff. Simple.

    Please humor me by pointing out what part of my original post was guff. It's funny how I made legitimate points and your only responce to me is to call my post guff.

    So you see nothing wrong with Hamas not wanting to come to the table to negotiate a peacefull agreement to the conflict.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • VedJam
    VedJam Posts: 18
    first, im a 17 year old girl [and no, i'm not naive..]

    second, the real problem here is that you can't change historey- many ppl were rised and educated to just hate each other.. the Jihad and many parents who have been rised the same have made every Palastinien hate the existence of jews in Israel.. and most of the kids hear about the wares and can't help but to ask why should we not hate them? [or something like that..]

    but i really think Israel is influenced from the US and europe [in a good way] and see what other choices they have, but hate.. there are many programs that their goal is to connect kids from bothe sides..
    and im not saying that Palestinians are not good ppl, they are just like enybody who has been hurt and rised to demand their own [in a way that i think is more violent than it should be]..

    -and again, very sorry for the grammer too..
  • VedJam
    VedJam Posts: 18
    _FiveAgainstOne_ wrote:
    They were able to take thousands of Palestinians out of their homes without a reason, atleast this would have a reason behind it that can solve many things.



    well if you are making accusations, you should provide examples on them. As far as I know, VedJam, no one hates you or your country. They just disagree with how your government has been acting.

    Saying one hates Israelis based on their government is like saying you hate all Americans because you don't like the Bush Administration.


    can you plz remind me where and when "They were able to take thousands of Palestinians out of their homes WITHOUT A REASON.."

    and may i remind you all that Israel risked civil war when it decided to evacuate Gaza?
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    mammasan wrote:
    Please humor me by pointing out what part of my original post was guff. It's funny how I made legitimate points and your only responce to me is to call my post guff.

    I won't waste my time, and also pay your post more respect than it deserves, by responding to it in detail. It was just gibberish.
    mammasan wrote:
    So you see nothing wrong with Hamas not wanting to come to the table to negotiate a peacefull agreement to the conflict.

    Please provide evidence of where Hamas has said it doesn't want to come to '..the table..'. As far as I'm aware, It's Israel and it's sponsor - the U.S - that is refusing to negotiate with Hamas. So I think you've got things the wrong way around. Hamas is telling Abbas and his crew to pull out of the talks because, quite rightly, nothing of any good will come out of them under the present circumstances.
  • spiral out
    spiral out Posts: 1,052
    VedJam wrote:
    first, im a 17 year old girl [and no, i'm not naive..]

    second, the real problem here is that you can't change historey- many ppl were rised and educated to just hate each other.. the Jihad and many parents who have been rised the same have made every Palastinien hate the existence of jews in Israel.. and most of the kids hear about the wares and can't help but to ask why should we not hate them? [or something like that..]

    but i really think Israel is influenced from the US and europe [in a good way] and see what other choices they have, but hate.. there are many programs that their goal is to connect kids from bothe sides..
    and im not saying that Palestinians are not good ppl, they are just like enybody who has been hurt and rised to demand their own [in a way that i think is more violent than it should be]..

    -and again, very sorry for the grammer too..

    So you are saying all palistinien children are raised to hate Isreal, but you are not raised the same?
    Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!

    The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    VedJam wrote:
    can you plz remind me where and when "They were able to take thousands of Palestinians out of their homes WITHOUT A REASON.."

    and may i remind you all that Israel risked civil war when it decided to evacuate Gaza?

    Actually, I think he used the word 'take' mistakenly. I think a more appropriate word would have been 'drive'.
  • VedJam
    VedJam Posts: 18
    spiral out wrote:
    So you are saying all palistinien children are raised to hate Isreal, but you are not raised the same?

    no! plz don't take me the wrong way, i ment more of them were raised to a violent activists than i see here in Israel..
    from where i see it, 50% or more have pure hate for the jews they were raised to see.. i would feel the same way if i was in that particuler situation..
    so i really don't see an end.

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