Mental disability groups protest 'Tropic Thunder'

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  • BetterThanYou
    BetterThanYou Posts: 853
    NMyTree wrote:
    All this over-analyzing and digging......sheesh. If you don't like these type of movies, don't fucking go see it. No one's going to force you to watch it.

    but then that would take all the fun out of them forcing you to not see it.

    normally, i don't go to the theater to see movies, i wait for the dvd to come out and rent it. but in this case, i think i'll go see it at the theaters, just to give it one more ticket sale (possibly 2 if the wife comes with me). and if i like it, maybe i'll go see it again and again and again and again and again.
    "Have you ever.........pooped a balloon?"
    ~D.K.S.
  • Jeanwah
    Jeanwah Posts: 6,363
    cutback wrote:
    It would be easier all around, obviously, if we lived in a culture where the potentially offensive and the undeniably comedic weren't linked as closely as they are, but contemporary moviegoers don't have that choice. You pays your money and you takes your chances. It's as simple, and as complex, as that.

    http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/la-et-tropic13-2008aug13,0,1300437.story

    Yeah, if we had real talent in Hollywood, they wouldn't resort to making fun of other people for laughs.
  • Jeanwah
    Jeanwah Posts: 6,363
    jwillmo wrote:
    Well you've got me there. Okay, if you don't think Hell is horrible, then I'm sorry and will retract my statement. I am sorry for your "hell of a situation," and I'm sure your daughter is wonderful and, of course, definitely deserves to be treated just like everyone. However, as I said originally, the point of the film is actually YOUR point, that Hollywood is largely lacking in decency when it comes to treating the historically disadvantaged (it also dives into its treatment of African Americans through the Robert Downey Jr character) as simply a means to further their careers under the guise that they actually give a shit. They get so wrapped up in winning awards, etc, that they get caught in the middle of a war during a movie shoot and don't even realize it.

    "Hell of a ..." in jest as in a "big" situation. It's hard to get through what you really mean when you can't speak it!
    And yes, there are many small rays of creativity shining through. Hell, The Dark Knight was a major studio film, and it was crammed so full of great, creative ideas (visually, thematically, etc) I thought it was going to burst at the seems. And despite it's lofty goals, it's also extremely popular. So I still hold out hope. Yes, the majority of studio films are crap, but I really feel the need to defend a movie like Tropic Thunder, which has some ideas of its own. And it's damn funny!

    Ok, maybe there are a couple decent movies. I just feel that they're definitely few and far between.
  • Rhinocerous Surprise
    Rhinocerous Surprise Posts: 4,423
    Jeanwah wrote:
    Yeah, if we had real talent in Hollywood, they wouldn't resort to making fun of other people for laughs.
    Parody and satire are two very valid forms of comedy. And in this case, they're not even making fun of handicapped people, they're making fun of actors. Y'know - themselves.
    Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
  • jwillmo
    jwillmo Posts: 471
    Jeanwah wrote:
    Yeah, if we had real talent in Hollywood, they wouldn't resort to making fun of other people for laughs.
    Then why are you blasting this film? In this case Hollywood's actually making fun of ITSELF for a change.
  • jwillmo
    jwillmo Posts: 471
    Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:
    Parody and satire are two very valid forms of comedy. And in this case, they're not even making fun of handicapped people, they're making fun of actors. Y'know - themselves.
    Damn, beat me to it.

    I really need to get back to work now. :)
  • norm
    norm Posts: 31,146
    this movie also calls overweight people fatties....i'm overweight....am i offended?

    NO!!
  • Jeanwah
    Jeanwah Posts: 6,363
    I know they're making fun of themselves, but they don't have to call themselves retards to do it. That is talentLESS.
  • jwillmo
    jwillmo Posts: 471
    Jeanwah wrote:
    I know they're making fun of themselves, but they don't have to call themselves retards to do it. That is talentLESS.
    But, see, in this case, they actually DO to make the point they're trying to make. Again, this is very hard to get across to someone who willfully admits to having not even seen the film they're talking about.

    I really shouldn't take the time to explain this all, since you're clearly never going to admit that you don't have enough context to be able to critique this film, but I'm going to anyway. The Stiller character thinks he's going to win an Oscar for his film "Simple Jack," a film clearly molded after movies like I Am Sam that are incredibly condescending to the mental challenged and are clearly just ploys to get Oscar nominations. The Robert Downey Jr character, who is just as much of an egotistical a-hole, tells him that he won't win because only people like Tom Hanks in Forrest Gump win, because they only play slightlly mentally challenged roles. Because the role is a satire of actors with this mentality, his quote is "Never go full retard." Now, sure there are tons of insensitive people who would think that quote is meant to be funny on its own, and those are exactly the kinds of jerks the film is making fun of. The line isn't funny, it's the fact that a jerk actor says it. If he had said, "Never play a fully mentally challenged person, who by the way are wonderful people that deserve our respect," the satire is completely lost. They're supposed to be unlikeable, so of course he would say something completely oblivious and disresepctful.

    So yes, in this case the use of the word "retard", in context, is the most appropriate word BECAUSE it's so offensive.
  • norm
    norm Posts: 31,146
    jwillmo wrote:
    But, see, in this case, they actually DO to make the point they're trying to make. Again, this is very hard to get across to someone who willfully admits to having not even seen the film they're talking about.

    I really shouldn't take the time to explain this all, since you're clearly never going to admit that you don't have enough context to be able to critique this film, but I'm going to anyway. The Stiller character thinks he's going to win an Oscar for his film "Simple Jack," a film clearly molded after movies like I Am Sam that are incredibly condescending to the mental challenged and are clearly just ploys to get Oscar nominations. The Robert Downey Jr character, who is just as much of an egotistical a-hole, tells him that he won't win because only people like Tom Hanks in Forrest Gump win, because they only play slightlly mentally challenged roles. Because the role is a satire of actors with this mentality, his quote is "Never go full retard." Now, sure there are tons of insensitive people who would think that quote is meant to be funny on its own, and those are exactly the kinds of jerks the film is making fun of. The line isn't funny, it's the fact that a jerk actor says it. If he had said, "Never play a fully mentally challenged person, who by the way are wonderful people that deserve our respect," the satire is completely lost. They're supposed to be unlikeable, so of course he would say something completely oblivious and disresepctful.

    So yes, in this case the use of the word "retard", in context, is the most appropriate word BECAUSE it's so offensive.


    please stop making sense....;) :)
  • meistereder
    meistereder Posts: 1,577
    jwillmo wrote:
    But, see, in this case, they actually DO to make the point they're trying to make. Again, this is very hard to get across to someone who willfully admits to having not even seen the film they're talking about.

    I really shouldn't take the time to explain this all, since you're clearly never going to admit that you don't have enough context to be able to critique this film, but I'm going to anyway. The Stiller character thinks he's going to win an Oscar for his film "Simple Jack," a film clearly molded after movies like I Am Sam that are incredibly condescending to the mental challenged and are clearly just ploys to get Oscar nominations. The Robert Downey Jr character, who is just as much of an egotistical a-hole, tells him that he won't win because only people like Tom Hanks in Forrest Gump win, because they only play slightlly mentally challenged roles. Because the role is a satire of actors with this mentality, his quote is "Never go full retard." Now, sure there are tons of insensitive people who would think that quote is meant to be funny on its own, and those are exactly the kinds of jerks the film is making fun of. The line isn't funny, it's the fact that a jerk actor says it. If he had said, "Never play a fully mentally challenged person, who by the way are wonderful people that deserve our respect," the satire is completely lost. They're supposed to be unlikeable, so of course he would say something completely oblivious and disresepctful.

    So yes, in this case the use of the word "retard", in context, is the most appropriate word BECAUSE it's so offensive.

    Sounds a lot like Matt Dillon's line about "working with retards" in "There's Something About Mary" which I alluded to earlier. It's not that the joke is on disabled people, of course. It's the word itself that is being satirized. Taking that away -- the freedom of satire -- is an enormous disservice.
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  • jwillmo
    jwillmo Posts: 471
    meistereder wrote:
    Sounds a lot like Matt Dillon's line about "working with retards" in "There's Something About Mary" which I alluded to earlier. It's not that the joke is on disabled people, of course. It's the word itself that is being satirized. Taking that away -- the freedom of satire -- is an enormous disservice.
    It's exactly like that, in the context of the film.

    It's like saying no one should ever talk about racism, because if they do they might have to use the "n" word in their discussion, and no one should ever use the "n" word, even when making a statement about how hurtful the "n" word is. As I said before, it really stifles intelligent conversation and lowers discourse to the lowest common denominator. We can't talk at a certain level, because those at a lower level of understanding will take our meaning out of context. You just shouldn't have to live that way.
  • slightofjeff
    slightofjeff Posts: 7,762
    jwillmo wrote:
    It's exactly like that, in the context of the film.

    It's like saying no one should ever talk about racism, because if they do they might have to use the "n" word in their discussion, and no one should ever use the "n" word, even when making a statement about how hurtful the "n" word is. As I said before, it really stifles intelligent conversation and lowers discourse to the lowest common denominator. We can't talk at a certain level, because those at a lower level of understanding will take our meaning out of context. You just shouldn't have to live that way.

    I have a feeling the people who would protest this movie are the same people who thought that New Yorker cover actually made fun of Obama ... when it was actually making fun of the Republicans' TREATMENT of Obama.

    Satire is totally lost on some people. But you can't go around in life catering to the lowest common denominator.
    everybody wants the most they can possibly get
    for the least they could possibly do
  • mbangel10
    mbangel10 Posts: 548
    jwillmo wrote:
    But, see, in this case, they actually DO to make the point they're trying to make. Again, this is very hard to get across to someone who willfully admits to having not even seen the film they're talking about.

    I really shouldn't take the time to explain this all, since you're clearly never going to admit that you don't have enough context to be able to critique this film, but I'm going to anyway. The Stiller character thinks he's going to win an Oscar for his film "Simple Jack," a film clearly molded after movies like I Am Sam that are incredibly condescending to the mental challenged and are clearly just ploys to get Oscar nominations. The Robert Downey Jr character, who is just as much of an egotistical a-hole, tells him that he won't win because only people like Tom Hanks in Forrest Gump win, because they only play slightlly mentally challenged roles. Because the role is a satire of actors with this mentality, his quote is "Never go full retard." Now, sure there are tons of insensitive people who would think that quote is meant to be funny on its own, and those are exactly the kinds of jerks the film is making fun of. The line isn't funny, it's the fact that a jerk actor says it. If he had said, "Never play a fully mentally challenged person, who by the way are wonderful people that deserve our respect," the satire is completely lost. They're supposed to be unlikeable, so of course he would say something completely oblivious and disresepctful.

    So yes, in this case the use of the word "retard", in context, is the most appropriate word BECAUSE it's so offensive.

    This might win the award for most intelligent post in this thread. Congrats on actually getting it. :)

    PS: If you're offended by seeing a man wearing a Panda head get kicked in the nuts, do not watch this "viral" video from the stars of Tropic Thunder.

    http://www.mtv.com/overdrive/?id=1588444&vid=237158
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  • facepollution
    facepollution Posts: 6,834
    I haven't read all the posts in this thread, so forgive me if this has been addressed, but how is the word 'retard' any different from words like moron, stupid, idiot, thick, imbecile, dunce, dumb, simpleton etc? Essentially they are all implying the same thing.
  • Jeanwah
    Jeanwah Posts: 6,363
    jwillmo wrote:
    But, see, in this case, they actually DO to make the point they're trying to make. Again, this is very hard to get across to someone who willfully admits to having not even seen the film they're talking about.

    I really shouldn't take the time to explain this all, since you're clearly never going to admit that you don't have enough context to be able to critique this film, but I'm going to anyway. The Stiller character thinks he's going to win an Oscar for his film "Simple Jack," a film clearly molded after movies like I Am Sam that are incredibly condescending to the mental challenged and are clearly just ploys to get Oscar nominations. The Robert Downey Jr character, who is just as much of an egotistical a-hole, tells him that he won't win because only people like Tom Hanks in Forrest Gump win, because they only play slightlly mentally challenged roles. Because the role is a satire of actors with this mentality, his quote is "Never go full retard." Now, sure there are tons of insensitive people who would think that quote is meant to be funny on its own, and those are exactly the kinds of jerks the film is making fun of. The line isn't funny, it's the fact that a jerk actor says it. If he had said, "Never play a fully mentally challenged person, who by the way are wonderful people that deserve our respect," the satire is completely lost. They're supposed to be unlikeable, so of course he would say something completely oblivious and disresepctful.

    So yes, in this case the use of the word "retard", in context, is the most appropriate word BECAUSE it's so offensive.

    Ok, fine. I like the Something about Mary analogy someone else mentioned.

    However, is this kind of humor that has to dominate society? I know, you're probably rolling your eyes, but this kind of humor is unfortunately the norm of American pop culture. So we can laugh at this Stiller character because of his funny role, great. But why is it that this is the kind of character that a movie tends to center around, in order to make a funny movie? It's just the concept of even having to have that type of person involved in the storyline. To me, it makes Stiller look like he's really reaching here (in trying to make a funny movie; he wrote it didn't he?). And it makes me lose respect for him.

    I'd let this get to me, but nothing can get me down right now. I met Eddie Vedder in Montreal!!! :)
  • Rhinocerous Surprise
    Rhinocerous Surprise Posts: 4,423
    Jeanwah wrote:
    Ok, fine. I like the Something about Mary analogy someone else mentioned.

    However, is this kind of humor that has to dominate society? I know, you're probably rolling your eyes, but this kind of humor is unfortunately the norm of American pop culture. So we can laugh at this Stiller character because of his funny role, great. But why is it that this is the kind of character that a movie tends to center around, in order to make a funny movie? It's just the concept of even having to have that type of person involved in the storyline. To me, it makes Stiller look like he's really reaching here (in trying to make a funny movie; he wrote it didn't he?). And it makes me lose respect for him.

    I'd let this get to me, but nothing can get me down right now. I met Eddie Vedder in Montreal!!! :)
    I'm not sure I follow you... This film focuses on a group of actors with their own respective problems and prejudices and obstacles - the retard line is just that: a line. Notice how no one's complained about Robert Downey Jr "blacking up" for this movie... cos it's a comedy.
    Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
  • beachdweller
    beachdweller Posts: 1,532
    Ben Stiller is behind the protest, it'll double ticket sales just to see people saying 'retarded'

    funny, Boston, South Park, and Saturday Night Live aren't boycotted or picketted for saying 'retarded' or making fun of disabilities, well ok, South Park has been.

    I've been to Boston on a few occassions, and locals really do use the work 'retarted' in everyother sentence, lol
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  • lephty
    lephty Posts: 770
    lephty wrote:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yioJQFrqMXM

    enjoy... there is a dozen or so episodes~

    i am quoting myself cause i think people overlooked this... its so worth your time~

    and before you get offended and want to say how wrong this series is, make sure you read the description
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    All factors considered it's still poor taste to put out a war movie right now... but who gives a shit...

    Sort of a odd society that does this to be entertained...in light of...if you ask me.

    but you know...fuck it...it's the sentiment of the decade...
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
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