'I' am not consciousness

Ahnimus
Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
edited May 2007 in A Moving Train
Imagine this. In order for me to know what I think, or to know how I act, I must be self-aware. This is what we call consciousness.

But, 'I' am not my consciousness. 'I' am what 'I' am conscious of. 'I' am in no way my awareness of what 'I' am, but rather 'I' am what 'I' am aware of.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
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Comments

  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Imagine this. In order for me to know what I think, or to know how I act, I must be self-aware. This is what we call consciousness.

    But, 'I' am not my consciousness. 'I' am what 'I' am conscious of. 'I' am in no way my awareness of what 'I' am, but rather 'I' am what 'I' am aware of.

    i agree with you. you must be unconscious when writing a majority of your posts.
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    Ahnimus wrote:
    'I' am what 'I' am conscious of.

    Are you a tree? Are you a boat? Are you a message board?
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    farfromglorified wrote:
    Are you a tree? Are you a boat? Are you a message board?

    Not as much as I am aware of. As far as my awareness is concerned I'm a human being.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Not as much as I am aware of. As far as my awareness is concerned I'm a human being.

    Then how can you be aware of a tree, a boat, or a message board, if you are not these things?
  • baraka
    baraka Posts: 1,268
    To me a consciousness/soul is that which makes me me. The complete set of memories, with my current experience.

    But more importantly, it's that which separates me, in my mind, from everyone else. If I was just a "machine" walking around absorbing stimuli and responding to it and analyzing it, I don't think there would be much room left for the individual experience.

    A soul may or may not exist separately from physicality, but it surely is an emergent property that should not be ignored, for it is what gives us freedom and space and individuality, and a little bit of personal exploration.
    The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
    but the illusion of knowledge.
    ~Daniel Boorstin

    Only a life lived for others is worth living.
    ~Albert Einstein
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    baraka wrote:
    If I was just a "machine" walking around absorbing stimuli and responding to it and analyzing it, I don't think there would be much room left for the individual experience.

    And that would be quite convenient for other individuals.
  • puremagic
    puremagic Posts: 1,907
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Imagine this. In order for me to know what I think, or to know how I act, I must be self-aware. This is what we call consciousness.

    But, 'I' am not my consciousness. 'I' am what 'I' am conscious of. 'I' am in no way my awareness of what 'I' am, but rather 'I' am what 'I' am aware of.

    What are you, when say a person tells you, Could you please stop tapping that pencil?.

    You weren't conscious of the tapping - Nor were you aware of the tapping - Yet you were performing a physical action most likely while concentrating on a thought.

    Thus, were you in a state of nothingness or at a different level of consciousness which permitted you to be aware of a thought, but not a physical action?
    SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
  • PJPOWER
    PJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    Only to yourself and until you find out otherwise...........Your awareness doesn't always represent what is actually true. "You" are only what "I" am aware "you" are..........which can sometimes be more true than your own awareness. Then my awareness can change your awareness, which results in me changing you? Or are we talking about perception rather than awareness?
  • baraka
    baraka Posts: 1,268
    farfromglorified wrote:
    And that would be quite convenient for other individuals.

    I'm sure it would be quite uninspiring as well. I'm not 100% sure I understand your point.
    The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
    but the illusion of knowledge.
    ~Daniel Boorstin

    Only a life lived for others is worth living.
    ~Albert Einstein
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    Ahnimus wrote:
    'I' am what 'I' am conscious of.


    makes sense to me...
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

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  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    baraka wrote:
    To me a consciousness/soul is that which makes me me. The complete set of memories, with my current experience.

    But more importantly, it's that which separates me, in my mind, from everyone else. If I was just a "machine" walking around absorbing stimuli and responding to it and analyzing it, I don't think there would be much room left for the individual experience.

    A soul may or may not exist separately from physicality, but it surely is an emergent property that should not be ignored, for it is what gives us freedom and space and individuality, and a little bit of personal exploration.

    I'm sure it can be ignored, as I don't see any evidence for a soul.

    The point is that I am not my awareness. If I am aware that I am tapping a pencil, it is not my awareness of me tapping a pencil that is tapping the pencil, but rather I am tapping the pencil independant of my awareness of it.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • baraka
    baraka Posts: 1,268
    Ahnimus, maybe you should first define consciousness for us in your own words, so we all know where you are 'coming from'.
    The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
    but the illusion of knowledge.
    ~Daniel Boorstin

    Only a life lived for others is worth living.
    ~Albert Einstein
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    baraka wrote:
    Ahnimus, maybe you should first define consciousness for us in your own words, so we all know where you are 'coming from'.

    Consciousness is simply awareness.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Collin
    Collin Posts: 4,931
    I agree and there won't be many of us who agree, I think.
    THANK YOU, LOSTDAWG!


    naděje umírá poslední
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    Collin wrote:
    I agree and there won't be many of us who agree, I think.

    Really? I thought this would be incontrovertible.

    Can anyone provide evidence that consciousness is responsible for more than awareness?
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Can anyone provide evidence that consciousness is responsible for more than awareness?

    Does this answer your question:

    http://pinker.wjh.harvard.edu/photos/poland_and_ukraine/images/goat.jpg
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    farfromglorified wrote:
    Does this answer your question:

    http://pinker.wjh.harvard.edu/photos/poland_and_ukraine/images/goat.jpg

    I'll take that as a no.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    Collin wrote:
    I agree and there won't be many of us who agree, I think.

    Hehe...."agree"??? How is that possible, if consciousness is nothing other than awareness?
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    Ahnimus wrote:
    no.

    Why not?
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    farfromglorified wrote:
    Hehe...."agree"??? How is that possible, if consciousness is nothing other than awareness?

    The processes of deliberation are sub-conscious.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire

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