John McCain's health care plan

2

Comments

  • So, my question is ... how much is YOUR health care plan? Sure, most of us have our employers paying ... but, if you don't ... or, if they only pay a part ... how much does it cost?

    $2,500 for an individual? Does anyone think they can get good healthcare for just around $200 a month?[/quote]

    My family is insured through my husband's employer and it costs $700 a month. We have a $20 copay for our PCP and specialists, and $100 for ER visits. And our prescription plan sucks; we pay 50%.
  • Posts: 4,984
    So, my question is ... how much is YOUR health care plan? Sure, most of us have our employers paying ... but, if you don't ... or, if they only pay a part ... how much does it cost?

    $2,500 for an individual? Does anyone think they can get good healthcare for just around $200 a month?
    My family is insured through my husband's employer and it costs $700 a month. We have a $20 copay for our PCP and specialists, and $100 for ER visits. And our prescription plan sucks; we pay 50%.
    health care costs as much as we are willing to tax corporations for pollution, or as much as we decide to cut funding to terror states like Turkey or Colombia.

    we could lower taxes and pay for health care for every individual in the US.


    Its a choice policy planners have in front of them. Spend US tax dollars to kill or to heal. thye've chosen the former lately, but I think its up to us to force them to choose the latter.

    End support for terror regimes, use the money to save american lives, end of story.
  • Posts: 1,348
    Commy wrote:
    health care costs as much as we are willing to tax corporations for pollution, or as much as we decide to cut funding to terror states like Turkey or Colombia.

    we could lower taxes and pay for health care for every individual in the US.


    Its a choice policy planners have in front of them. Spend US tax dollars to kill or to heal. thye've chosen the former lately, but I think its up to us to force them to choose the latter.

    End support for terror regimes, use the money to save american lives, end of story.

    How is colombia a terror state?
    96 Randall's Island II
    98 CAA
    00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
    05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
    06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
    08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
    09 Phillie III
    10 MSG II
    13 Wrigley Field
    16 Phillie II
  • I have great health care insurance for my family. However it cost me $800 a month, through my employer. So that's almost 10 grand a year. So that five thousand bucks that McCain is trying to give me, is gonna leave me with about half the coverage that I currently have, and am pleased with. This is why I'm voting for Obama....I think Universal Health Care is the answer, however, I think it will be on the back burner for the first four years.
    "It's all happening"
  • Posts: 4,984
    How is colombia a terror state?
    Bill Clinton gave Colombia $2 billion dollars in aid under the guise of fighting the war on drugs. In no stretch of the imigination are apache gunships used to fight a war on drugs, but the package included 50 apache gunships, also training from the SOA. The SOA teaches 'counter' terror tecniques'. which means they teadch how to torture. Columbian military officials have been tied to the paramilitary groups running around the country. The same paramilitary groups who have droppped pregnant women from helicopters, the same groups who have beaten and burned alive able bodied males in certain villlages. Its systematic terror. A Union is born, its leader is assissinated. Labor organizes, they are tortured and killed. A human rights worker gives food to the poor, they call him a saint. HE askes why the poor have no food and they call him a communist.
    And the cocaine trade has been tied to Columbian officials, including the Colombian General caught with kilos of cocaine in a Florida airport.


    They use US intelligence and surveillance to root out the competition, and their methods are brutal. Needles in the eyes, castration, killing kids in front of parents, its not war, its terror. They go into a villalge and beat and burn every able bodied male, the villalge is left with little choice. THey submit, or are subjected to more terror.


    Bottom line. Vote for the US candidate or be subjected to more terror. Terrorism works, as seen in most countries in south and central american.


    And according to human rights watch and other human rights groups, Turkey and Colombia are pretty high on the list of states responible for human rights abuses. Higher than Iran, Korea, Iraq. And theese are US allies.
  • Don't get me wrong everyone needs healthcare but to put the US Government in charge of health care scares me. The last thing I want is them telling me who I can see and where I can go to the hospital.


    You really need to do some research on universal health care before you open you mouth.
    I live in Canada where we have universal health care. We can go to ANY DOCTOR WE WANT...we can go to ANY HOSPITAL WE WANT.
    Universal healthcare is about ensuring that ANYONE can get the best possible care at ANY hospital or doctor regardless of their income. The doctors and hospitals bill our heathcare system and the Government sends them the money. This prevents doctors from charging highway robbery for their services and hospitals from gauging people to fatten the wallets of their administrators and/or boardmembers.
    "Rock and roll is something that can't be quantified, sometimes it's not even something you hear, but FEEL!" - Bob Lefsetz
  • Posts: 4,984
    You really need to do some research on universal health care before you open you mouth.
    I live in Canada where we have universal health care. We can go to ANY DOCTOR WE WANT...we can go to ANY HOSPITAL WE WANT.
    Universal healthcare is about ensuring that ANYONE can get the best possible care at ANY hospital or doctor regardless of their income. The doctors and hospitals bill our heathcare system and the Government sends them the money. This prevents doctors from charging highway robbery for their services and hospitals from gauging people to fatten the wallets of their administrators and/or boardmembers.
    I have an idea. Instead of all of our tax dollars going to the military industrial complex, it should go to health care. France has ZERO people without healthcare. Cuba has zero. Why the fuck don't we?
  • Posts: 276
    jked3 wrote:
    This plan, if implemented, would be a complete disaster. Joe Biden was correct last night when he said that it costs about $12K/Year for average health insurance. I was paying $226/Week (~$12K/Year) until my employer finally started covering 100% last year. Under McCain's plan, I'll be paying $226/Week throughout the year (while he taxes that income), then, once per year he's going to give me a tax credit of $5K which isn't shit compared to the actual cost. It makes no sense at all.

    Not to mention, once the individual and the family are turned out to negotiate with/battle with the health care providers, they are going to get raped with the costs. Who do you think would get a better price and therefore more affordable health care, the indivdual (1 person - Me) who the insurance companies wouldn't give a shit about if they lost me or the businesses who are bringing them 25 to 50 to 100s of employees who want to be covered under a group plan?

    Just another on the long list of reasons why I'm voting for Obama. McCain is a complete train wreck.

    And a plam like Obama's is a GREAT IDEA? These assholes in Govt fuck just about everything up and you want some idiot like Barney Frank determing whether or not you get coverage. I like my current HMO it works well for me and my family. We have turned into a country of a bunch of cry baby's. Look at the whole financial mess we are in. But I am sure evryone on this board plans Bush and the repub's anyways. B/C the Dems never do anything wrong.
  • Posts: 9,478
    Pats54 wrote:
    I like my current HMO it works well for me and my family. We have turned into a country of a bunch of cry baby's.
    your fine so fuck everybody else eh? People who cant afford insurance in your country are dying but hey your fine ......so, fuck them. Nice attitude.
  • Jericho, VT Posts: 759
    Pats54 wrote:
    And a plam like Obama's is a GREAT IDEA? These assholes in Govt fuck just about everything up and you want some idiot like Barney Frank determing whether or not you get coverage. I like my current HMO it works well for me and my family. We have turned into a country of a bunch of cry baby's. Look at the whole financial mess we are in. But I am sure evryone on this board plans Bush and the repub's anyways. B/C the Dems never do anything wrong.


    Attitudes like yours are the reason no progress gets made on critical issues like this. You sound like a McCain-Palin talking point. It's not that the Dems can do no wrong, but when its obvious how Repubs are fucking up the country (they are the ones who have been in charge for the last 8 years of glory) people like you still defend them to the death and run down anyone who at least wants to try and make things better. It is obvious to any non-biased observer that our health care system is broken. McCains answer is to further fuck over the average American in favor of the insurance companies. This is the problem. If wanting a health care system at least as good as Cuba's makes me a cry baby then so be it. Your attitude makes me sick.
    9/13/98, 10/4/00, 4/29/03, 6/29/03, 7/2/03, 9/28/04, 9/29/04, 9/15/05, 9/16/05, 5/12/06, 5/13/06, 6/27/08, 6/28/08, 6/30/08, 10/30/09, 10/31/09, 5/15/10, 9/11/11, 9/12/11, 10/19/13, 10/21/13, 10/22/13, 10/25/13, 10/27/13, 9/26/15, 4/28/16, 4/29/16, 8/5/16, 8/7/16, 8/13/18, 9/2/18, 9/4/18, 9/26/21, 9/1/22, 9/2/22, 9/14/22, 9/18/23, 9/19/23, 9/7/24, 9/9/24, 9/12/24, 9/15/24, 9/17/24, 5/16/25, 5/18/25
  • Pats54 wrote:
    And a plam like Obama's is a GREAT IDEA? These assholes in Govt fuck just about everything up and you want some idiot like Barney Frank determing whether or not you get coverage. I like my current HMO it works well for me and my family. We have turned into a country of a bunch of cry baby's. Look at the whole financial mess we are in. But I am sure evryone on this board plans Bush and the repub's anyways. B/C the Dems never do anything wrong.


    Umm... no on is saying that legislators will determine whether or not you get coverage. If you are more comfortable with an insurance company who's main goal is for a profit and not health care, then stick with yours. You like your current HMO? Great... then keep it. No one is forcing you to change
    My whole life
    was like a picture
    of a sunny day
    “We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
    ― Abraham Lincoln
  • Posts: 6,657
    jimed14 wrote:
    From John McCain.com

    http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/19ba2f1c-c03f-4ac2-8cd5-5cf2edb527cf.htm

    John McCain Will Reform The Tax Code To Offer More Choices Beyond Employer-Based Health Insurance Coverage. While still having the option of employer-based coverage, every family will receive a direct refundable tax credit - effectively cash - of $2,500 for individuals and $5,000 for families to offset the cost of insurance. Families will be able to choose the insurance provider that suits them best and the money would be sent directly to the insurance provider. Those obtaining innovative insurance that costs less than the credit can deposit the remainder in expanded Health Savings Accounts.

    Will someone please explain to me how a tax credit will help those making such little money that they don't pay income tax? I'm no tax expert, but I thought a tax credit was a decrease in the amount of taxes you paid. So will poor people not get their $2,500, or am I confused?

    Also, is this meant to cover only your portion of the premiums while your employer still pays their share? (In which case, you'd still lose your healthcare if you lost your job, right?) Or does this need to cover your portion AND your employer's portion? (i.e., is this meant to help those who don't have insurance through their employer?)

    Also, what's to keep insurance companies from jacking up thier prices?
  • "Mess with our health and well mess with yours"


    social health care for all
  • Posts: 6,657
    I went to a lecture on National Health Insurance recently. It was given by Oliver Fein, MD, who is a physicians & professor at Cornell, the VP of the American Public Health Association, and the President-Elect of Physicians for a National Health Program. Here are just a few of the things I learned:

    - This is NOT socialized medicine. It is public funding for private delivery of services.

    - We’re already spending more PUBLIC money per capita for healthcare than any other country. The U.S. spends enough on healthcare – over $7000 per person in 2006 – to provide care for all. So essentially we’re paying for national health insurance but we’re not getting it.

    - More than ½ of personal bankruptcies are due to medical expenses, but over 75% of these people had health insurance when they got sick.

    - 42% of employees have no choice in who their insurer is. 74% change plans involuntarily. Under the current system, you are limited in which doctors/hostpitals you can go to. Under the proposed system, however, you could go to any doctor or hospital you choose. The market does not increase choice.

    - Private insurance overhead is 16-30%. Medicare overhead is 2-3%. Since 1970 (before we had the current for-profit market-based system), the number of doctors has increased by 100% while the number of administrators has increased by 3000%.

    - Over 45 million Americans are uninsured, but tens of millions more are under-insured, lacking sufficient coverage for vital care and medications. More than 18,000 adults die annually from lack of coverage.
  • Posts: 276
    Attitudes like yours are the reason no progress gets made on critical issues like this. You sound like a McCain-Palin talking point. It's not that the Dems can do no wrong, but when its obvious how Repubs are fucking up the country (they are the ones who have been in charge for the last 8 years of glory) people like you still defend them to the death and run down anyone who at least wants to try and make things better. It is obvious to any non-biased observer that our health care system is broken. McCains answer is to further fuck over the average American in favor of the insurance companies. This is the problem. If wanting a health care system at least as good as Cuba's makes me a cry baby then so be it. Your attitude makes me sick.
    You mean Michael Moores view of the Cuban healthcare system or the real cuban healhcare system. If Govt does such a great job then go take a walk through a VA hospital. I for one don't want some politican telling me when I am say 68 that you don't need heart by-pass surgery because based on the actuary tables (from Matt Damon), you will be dead in 4 years anyway. Or maybe they will deem you didn't lead a clean lifestyle drank or whatever and say you can go to the end of the line. You people kill me with your naieve view of everything. I am not trying to defend republicans unlike most dem's I will bash my party when the screw up. I think Bush has been terrible and I voted for him twice. You dem's defend your dam scum bags up and down no matter what they do. With the typical BS of "Well the intentions were good" cracks me up. Everyone blames the Repub's for the financial mess yet there is blame to go around on both sides. However, Dem's don't and never see it that way drives me crazy.

    Bush sends troops to Iraq and everyone is all pissed off etc. Yet during the debate's both Biden and Obama said they would send tropps to Darfur and more troops to Afgahnistan. How does that square with all the feel good liberals. I bet no one will say a word, funny how that works.
  • Posts: 9,488
    Pats54 wrote:
    You mean Michael Moores view of the Cuban healthcare system or the real cuban healhcare system. If Govt does such a great job then go take a walk through a VA hospital. I for one don't want some politican telling me when I am say 68 that you don't need heart by-pass surgery because based on the actuary tables (from Matt Damon), you will be dead in 4 years anyway. Or maybe they will deem you didn't lead a clean lifestyle drank or whatever and say you can go to the end of the line. You people kill me with your naieve view of everything. I am not trying to defend republicans unlike most dem's I will bash my party when the screw up. I think Bush has been terrible and I voted for him twice. You dem's defend your dam scum bags up and down no matter what they do. With the typical BS of "Well the intentions were good" cracks me up. Everyone blames the Repub's for the financial mess yet there is blame to go around on both sides. However, Dem's don't and never see it that way drives me crazy.

    Bush sends troops to Iraq and everyone is all pissed off etc. Yet during the debate's both Biden and Obama said they would send tropps to Darfur and more troops to Afgahnistan. How does that square with all the feel good liberals. I bet no one will say a word, funny how that works.

    man, look who is evoking celebrity views and deflecting form the issue at hand ... THAT is typical republican tactic ...

    Look around this board ... can you find one of the left leaners DEFENDING the Dem's and their hand in this financial mess?

    Anyway ... back to healthcare ... here is Obama's plan ... it is NOT putting the government in charge ... it attacking health insurance, and the drug companies ... which, is where most people would say the issues reside.

    http://www.barackobama.com/issues/healthcare/

    Barack Obama and Joe Biden's Plan

    On health care reform, the American people are too often offered two extremes - government-run health care with higher taxes or letting the insurance companies operate without rules. Barack Obama and Joe Biden believe both of these extremes are wrong, and that’s why they’ve proposed a plan that strengthens employer coverage, makes insurance companies accountable and ensures patient choice of doctor and care without government interference.

    The Obama-Biden plan provides affordable, accessible health care for all Americans, builds on the existing health care system, and uses existing providers, doctors and plans to implement the plan. Under the Obama-Biden plan, patients will be able to make health care decisions with their doctors, instead of being blocked by insurance company bureaucrats.

    Under the plan, if you like your current health insurance, nothing changes, except your costs will go down by as much as $2,500 per year.

    If you don’t have health insurance, you will have a choice of new, affordable health insurance options.

    Make Health Insurance Work for People and Businesses - Not Just Insurance and Drug Companies.

    Require insurance companies to cover pre-existing conditions so all Americans regardless of their health status or history can get comprehensive benefits at fair and stable premiums.

    Create a new Small Business Health Tax Credit to help small businesses provide affordable health insurance to their employees.

    Lower costs for businesses by covering a portion of the catastrophic health costs they pay in return for lower premiums for employees.

    Prevent insurers from overcharging doctors for their malpractice insurance and invest in proven strategies to reduce preventable medical errors.

    Make employer contributions more fair by requiring large employers that do not offer coverage or make a meaningful contribution to the cost of quality health coverage for their employees to contribute a percentage of payroll toward the costs of their employees health care.

    Establish a National Health Insurance Exchange with a range of private insurance options as well as a new public plan based on benefits available to members of Congress that will allow individuals and small businesses to buy affordable health coverage.

    Ensure everyone who needs it will receive a tax credit for their premiums.
    Reduce Costs and Save a Typical American Family up to $2,500 as reforms phase in:

    Lower drug costs by allowing the importation of safe medicines from other developed countries, increasing the use of generic drugs in public programs and taking on drug companies that block cheaper generic medicines from the market

    Require hospitals to collect and report health care cost and quality data
    Reduce the costs of catastrophic illnesses for employers and their employees.
    Reform the insurance market to increase competition by taking on anticompetitive activity that drives up prices without improving quality of care.

    The Obama-Biden plan will promote public health. It will require coverage of preventive services, including cancer screenings, and increase state and local preparedness for terrorist attacks and natural disasters.

    A Commitment to Fiscal Responsibility: Barack Obama will pay for his $50 - $65 billion health care reform effort by rolling back the Bush tax cuts for Americans earning more than $250,000 per year and retaining the estate tax at its 2009 level.


    (oh, if your handle is a reference to Tedy Bruschi, you're doing him a disservice)
    "You're one of the few Red Sox fans I don't mind." - Newch91

    "I don't believe in damn curses. Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him in the ass." --- Pedro Martinez
  • Jericho, VT Posts: 759
    Pats54 wrote:
    You mean Michael Moores view of the Cuban healthcare system or the real cuban healhcare system. If Govt does such a great job then go take a walk through a VA hospital. I for one don't want some politican telling me when I am say 68 that you don't need heart by-pass surgery because based on the actuary tables (from Matt Damon), you will be dead in 4 years anyway. Or maybe they will deem you didn't lead a clean lifestyle drank or whatever and say you can go to the end of the line. You people kill me with your naieve view of everything. I am not trying to defend republicans unlike most dem's I will bash my party when the screw up. I think Bush has been terrible and I voted for him twice. You dem's defend your dam scum bags up and down no matter what they do. With the typical BS of "Well the intentions were good" cracks me up. Everyone blames the Repub's for the financial mess yet there is blame to go around on both sides. However, Dem's don't and never see it that way drives me crazy.

    Bush sends troops to Iraq and everyone is all pissed off etc. Yet during the debate's both Biden and Obama said they would send tropps to Darfur and more troops to Afgahnistan. How does that square with all the feel good liberals. I bet no one will say a word, funny how that works.

    I've got more than a word for ya.

    You still haven't seemed to grasp the concept that the gov't will not be running your health care. They will be paying for it. Big difference. I think that both sides can agree that the one thing the gov't knows how to do is spend money. If you like your health care, you can keep it. I don't see why you would be opposed to trying to expand health care to everyone. Say what you will about "the Michael Moore view" , it doesn't change the fact that the "greatest country in the world" (as you Neo-Cons love to point out) is decades behind most of the rest of the world when it comes to taking care of the health of its citizens. This shouldn't be a democratic or republican issue. This is a human issue. The nightmare scenarios you bring up are happening right now because of the insurance companies. How is this any better?

    I will criticize members of either party. I happen to be disgusted that Obama supported this atrocity of a bailout. I think its sad that we are forced to vote for the lessor of two evils in this country if we want our votes to count.
    I completely understand how there is blame to go around in the financial crisis. It is not an entirely partisan issue. That does not mean I wish to put my support behind a candidate who will exacerbate the problem by continuing to spend billions on an unnecessary war, and by giving more tax cuts to the wealthy, and continuing to shrink the once great middle class of this country.

    While we're at it, thanks for changing the subject and bringing up Bush. Thats right, everyone is pissed off he sent troops to Iraq because THEY WERE NOT THE COUNTRY THAT ATTACKED US. Read that again in case it didn't sink in. God forbid Obama or Biden advocate actually going after those that did attack us in Afghanistan (and now hiding in Pakistan as well). Speaking of Darfur, if trying to stop genocide (you know, like the Holocaust) is a waste of our military force then I fail to come up with any scenario in which force would be justified. Or maybe you think we just shouldn't care because they don't have oil there?

    Insanity is continuing to do the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Cry all you want about the "scum-bag dems" and all of their problems, and how we crack you up with our good intentions. You wish to continue to support those who have greed as their primary intention. Good for you. So, go on and do the "patriotic" thing by voting for McCain in November. Just remember there were those of us 8 years ago saying the same things about Bush, and what a disaster his presidency would be. It's a good thing he proved us wrong. His presidency has been a much bigger disaster than any of us could have possibly imagined. So much now that you, who have voted for him 2x, don't support him. Let's hope that in another 4 or 8 years we're not looking back at this election the same way.
    9/13/98, 10/4/00, 4/29/03, 6/29/03, 7/2/03, 9/28/04, 9/29/04, 9/15/05, 9/16/05, 5/12/06, 5/13/06, 6/27/08, 6/28/08, 6/30/08, 10/30/09, 10/31/09, 5/15/10, 9/11/11, 9/12/11, 10/19/13, 10/21/13, 10/22/13, 10/25/13, 10/27/13, 9/26/15, 4/28/16, 4/29/16, 8/5/16, 8/7/16, 8/13/18, 9/2/18, 9/4/18, 9/26/21, 9/1/22, 9/2/22, 9/14/22, 9/18/23, 9/19/23, 9/7/24, 9/9/24, 9/12/24, 9/15/24, 9/17/24, 5/16/25, 5/18/25
  • Posts: 4,585
    I'm going to give you my figures here....

    My husband's employer covers 75% of our Medical Insurance.

    We pay $3588 a year ($138 biweekly) meaning the the actual premium is a little over $14,000 ..... $14,000!!!!!!!!! :eek:

    This is coverage for 2 adults in their 30's and 3 children under the age of 10, and we might be expecting one more (haven't found out yet) but if the test confirms we are adding one more please tell me where exactly do I find coverage for 2 adults and 4 children for $5,000 ????!!!!

    What on earth can my family do with $5,000 credit to get my own insurance...


    Senator McCain give me a BREAK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    "Without the album covers, where do you clean your pot?" - EV
  • Posts: 276
    I've got more than a word for ya.

    You still haven't seemed to grasp the concept that the gov't will not be running your health care. They will be paying for it. Big difference. I think that both sides can agree that the one thing the gov't knows how to do is spend money. If you like your health care, you can keep it. I don't see why you would be opposed to trying to expand health care to everyone. Say what you will about "the Michael Moore view" , it doesn't change the fact that the "greatest country in the world" (as you Neo-Cons love to point out) is decades behind most of the rest of the world when it comes to taking care of the health of its citizens. This shouldn't be a democratic or republican issue. This is a human issue. The nightmare scenarios you bring up are happening right now because of the insurance companies. How is this any better?

    I will criticize members of either party. I happen to be disgusted that Obama supported this atrocity of a bailout. I think its sad that we are forced to vote for the lessor of two evils in this country if we want our votes to count.
    I completely understand how there is blame to go around in the financial crisis. It is not an entirely partisan issue. That does not mean I wish to put my support behind a candidate who will exacerbate the problem by continuing to spend billions on an unnecessary war, and by giving more tax cuts to the wealthy, and continuing to shrink the once great middle class of this country.

    While we're at it, thanks for changing the subject and bringing up Bush. Thats right, everyone is pissed off he sent troops to Iraq because THEY WERE NOT THE COUNTRY THAT ATTACKED US. Read that again in case it didn't sink in. God forbid Obama or Biden advocate actually going after those that did attack us in Afghanistan (and now hiding in Pakistan as well). Speaking of Darfur, if trying to stop genocide (you know, like the Holocaust) is a waste of our military force then I fail to come up with any scenario in which force would be justified. Or maybe you think we just shouldn't care because they don't have oil there?

    Insanity is continuing to do the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Cry all you want about the "scum-bag dems" and all of their problems, and how we crack you up with our good intentions. You wish to continue to support those who have greed as their primary intention. Good for you. So, go on and do the "patriotic" thing by voting for McCain in November. Just remember there were those of us 8 years ago saying the same things about Bush, and what a disaster his presidency would be. It's a good thing he proved us wrong. His presidency has been a much bigger disaster than any of us could have possibly imagined. So much now that you, who have voted for him 2x, don't support him. Let's hope that in another 4 or 8 years we're not looking back at this election the same way.

    My biggest issue with this election when I see thess two Obama & McCain is wonder that this is the best we can do. Neither one of them instill much confidence. Obama scares the hell out of me. His ties with William Ayers and Wright speak to hi sjudgement. If McCain had ties with say Daivid Dukes he would have been railroaded from the campaign. Not matter how anyone spins Ayers there is a connection there. I would have felt better with Hillary in there plus I think she is smarter than Obama. My view of him is that he comes across as an arrogant prick. The type of person who who has no clue yet thinks they do. If Hillary had been the nominee this race would be over.

    There was no genocide going on in Iraq? Didn't we find graves of people Hussien used gas on? A War for oil is the typical Dem talking point. Why is oil so high if it were a war for oil? There is no Greed on the Dem's side? Look at who the top contributors of Fannie & Freddie. Barney Frank's boy friend was a big exec with them. There is greed on both sides. I mean Charlie Rangel writes the fucking tax code and he doesn't know that he must report income from his vacation home in the Dominican. But we could go around on this type of shit all day long. Both parties are full of corrupt pols and pols who have the best of intentions.

    I just don't think if Obam gets in and is bad that you will hear the same type of stuff people are saying today about Bush.
  • Posts: 4,585
    You really need to do some research on universal health care before you open you mouth.
    I live in Canada where we have universal health care. We can go to ANY DOCTOR WE WANT...we can go to ANY HOSPITAL WE WANT.
    Universal healthcare is about ensuring that ANYONE can get the best possible care at ANY hospital or doctor regardless of their income. The doctors and hospitals bill our heathcare system and the Government sends them the money. This prevents doctors from charging highway robbery for their services and hospitals from gauging people to fatten the wallets of their administrators and/or boardmembers.


    Thank you Mel for pointing this out.
    A lot of people like to whine and complain and about how they dont the Government running their healthcare yet they have not the slightest clue as to how it works though they feel they can attack the idea.
    "Without the album covers, where do you clean your pot?" - EV

Welcome!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.