Israel, US, and Abbas want peace...Hamas doesn't

Posts: 10,118
edited October 2007 in A Moving Train
It's really sad to see. they are soo close. Hamas is clearly part of the problem and far from being part of the solution.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071012/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_palestinians

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip - Hamas' top leaders in Gaza and Syria warned the moderate Palestinian president Friday not to "fall into the trap" of an upcoming U.S.-sponsored peace conference with Israel.
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Ismail Haniyeh, who was deposed as Palestinian prime minister after Hamas violently seized Gaza in June, urged President Mahmoud Abbas to mend his rift with the Islamic militant group and criticized him for planning to attend the peace conference next month.

"Don't fall into the trap of the coming conference. Don't make new compromises on Jerusalem, on our sovereignty," Haniyeh said, speaking to thousands of cheering supporters for the Muslim Eid al-Fitr holiday.

Hamas' Syria-based supreme leader, Khaled Mashaal, echoed the warning in his own holiday message, accusing Israel and the U.S. of taking advantage of the Palestinian rift to try to wrest concessions in peace negotiations.

Abbas retaliated for Hamas' takeover of the Gaza Strip by expelling the group from his government and setting up his own administration in the West Bank. Mashaal urged Abbas to accept the Islamists' invitations for dialogue.

Abbas and his allies "will find out that they are pursuing nothing but a mirage," Mashaal said on Hamas radio.

Israel and the Palestinians hope to present the contours of a final peace accord at the conference, tentatively set for Annapolis, Md., at the end of November.
Post edited by Unknown User on

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Comments

  • Posts: 13,066
    One side: big boom, big army, likes moving in for real long time/forever

    Other side: small boom, no army, already living there, and tired of strangers coming over to dinner all the time, rearranging the furniture, making new rules, and staying indefinitely.

    It's like a bad all in the family episode.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • Posts: 10,118
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    One side: big boom, big army, likes moving in for real long time/forever

    Other side: small boom, no army, already living there, and tired of strangers coming over to dinner all the time, rearranging the furniture, making new rules, and staying indefinitely.

    It's like a bad all in the family episode.

    one side: willing to talk and make concessions and wants peace

    *other side: does not see the right for the other to exist.


    * only Hamas. Abbas's government is ready for talks and peace.


    its a damn shame.
  • Posts: 13,066
    jlew24asu wrote:
    one side: willing to talk and make concessions and wants peace

    *other side: does not see the right for the other to exist.


    * only Hamas. Abbas's government is ready for talks and peace.


    its a damn shame.

    If some groups of strangers forcefully came to live in my house against my wishes, I would probably question the right for them to exist in my house after a while, and not trust them.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • Posts: 10,118
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    If some groups of strangers forcefully came to live in my house against my wishes, I would probably question the right for them to exist in my house after a while, and not trust them.

    ok well those analogies are cute and all, but we arent talking about your house. we are talking about countries.

    you dont see how hamas is preventing peace?
  • Posts: 5,656
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    If some groups of strangers forcefully came to live in my house against my wishes, I would probably question the right for them to exist in my house after a while, and not trust them.

    So what the answer is to keep killing each other. I would think that sitting down at the table with all parties and trying to hash out an acceptable arraigment for all would be the logical approach.

    I consider myself a liberal, but after reading and seeing some of the shit that is spewed by the left on this board I'm starting to become a bit ashamed of being a liberal.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • Posts: 13,066
    jlew24asu wrote:
    ok well those analogies are cute and all, but we arent talking about your house. we are talking about countries.

    you dont see how hamas is preventing peace?

    Why not, people in those countries live in houses as well. The concept is exact.

    I wouldn't place the blame entirely on Hamas (which it kinda seems like you're doing). That wouldn't be accurate.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • Posts: 8,066
    One leader of the people telling the puppet not to go. That is pretty damn funny. Nothing like getting a bit of the land that got stolen from you back to make the population happy.
    You've changed your place in this world!
  • Posts: 10,118
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    Why not, people in those countries live in houses as well. The concept is exact.

    I wouldn't place the blame entirely on Hamas (which it kinda seems like you're doing). That wouldn't be accurate.

    ok Israel is at fault too. feel better now?

    but Israel is willing to sit down and talk it out and come to an agreement that everyone is happy with.

    HAMAS IS NOT. so let the killing continue. great plan.
  • Posts: 13,066
    jlew24asu wrote:
    ok Israel is at fault too. feel better now?

    but Israel is willing to sit down and talk it out and come to an agreement that everyone is happy with.

    HAMAS IS NOT. so let the killing continue. great plan.

    That everyone is happy with. Hmm not so sure about that one.

    I'm sure they have discussed preliminaries (and Hamas is aware of the "deal") and are probably telling them to go shove it.

    They (Hamas) will get the short end of the stick every time. The little guy always does.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • Posts: 10,118
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    That everyone is happy with. Hmm not so sure about that one.

    I'm sure they have discussed preliminaries (and Hamas is aware of the "deal") and are probably telling them to go shove it.

    They (Hamas) will get the short end of the stick every time. The little guy always does.

    so now you are making assumptions to avoid peace. what are these preliminaries you speak of?? you are just making shit up. dont you see how you (your mindset) is part of the problem. peace will never happen unless they sit down and talk about it. Abbas is ready to. Israel is ready to.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6480417.stm


    so I'll ask you, what is your solution?

    militants continue to shoot rockets into Israel, Israel will smack the shit out of them back and you'll cry about it. GREAT PLAN!!
  • Posts: 13,066
    jlew24asu wrote:
    so now you are making assumptions to avoid peace. what are these preliminaries you speak of?? you are just making shit up. dont you see how you (your mindset) is part of the problem. peace will never happen unless they sit down and talk about it. Abbas is ready to. Israel is ready to.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6480417.stm


    so I'll ask you, what is your solution?

    militants continue to shoot rockets into Israel, Israel will smack the shit out of them back and you'll cry about it. GREAT PLAN!!

    If you don't think that information is passed through the grapevine then you are naive.

    One party is occupying someone else's territory. That really all that needs to be said.

    How delicately Israel chooses to handle that situation is their problem.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • Posts: 6,097
    Are you talking about Israel itslef as occupied territory? If so, they gotta let it fucking go. Israel isn't going anywhere. People are moved in for good. Even if Israel's existence is illegal, There has to be a statute of limitations on that type of thing. To continue sacrificing your people's lives for a bit of land after its become clear you have no outside support and will never win is just ridiculous, and ultimately selfish. It becomes a crusade.
  • Posts: 10,118
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    If you don't think that information is passed through the grapevine then you are naive.

    One party is occupying someone else's territory. That really all that needs to be said.

    How delicately Israel chooses to handle that situation is their problem.

    you still dont get it. people like you make it obvious why peace is so difficult.
  • Posts: 5,656
    MrSmith wrote:
    Are you talking about Israel itslef as occupied territory? If so, they gotta let it fucking go. Israel isn't going anywhere. People are moved in for good. Even if Israel's existence is illegal, There has to be a statute of limitations on that type of thing. To continue sacrificing your people's lives for a bit of land after its become clear you have no outside support and will never win is just ridiculous, and ultimately selfish. It becomes a crusade.

    Good point. It is unfortunate that Palestinians lost there land and at this point Israel is willing to negotiate in order to install peace. As long as groups like Hamas continue to resort to violence they will never achieve anything. It's time to put down the weapons and sit down at the bargaining table regardless of who started it or who carries more blame, diplomacy is the only way this conflict will ever be solved.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • Posts: 13,066
    jlew24asu wrote:
    you still dont get it. people like you make it obvious why peace is so difficult.

    What don't I get? that you for some reason buy into endless propaganda like no other?

    Cake and eat it too perhaps?

    Israel should be paying rent.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • Posts: 10,118
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    What don't I get?

    that your propaganda will never bring about peace. that is the ultimate goal right? its clear that its not on your agenda.
  • Posts: 21,037
    jlew24asu wrote:
    you dont see how hamas is preventing peace?

    No. I see how the U.S has been preventing peace by vetoing every single attempt at a two-state solution for the past 36 years.

    These so called 'peace talks' are nothing of the kind. They never have been about peace and they never will be. They have been, and only will ever be, about trying to persuade the Palestinians to make more concessions, whilst offering nothing in return.
    You talk about Abbas and Fatah as though they're a legitimate government. They're as legitimate as Pinochet was in Chile.
  • Posts: 21,037
    jlew24asu wrote:
    ok Israel is at fault too. feel better now?

    but Israel is willing to sit down and talk it out and come to an agreement that everyone is happy with.

    HAMAS IS NOT. so let the killing continue. great plan.

    If these so called 'peace talks' are between nobody but Israel, the U.S, and Fatah, then you can bet your bottom dollar that they'll be no agreement hashed out other than an agreement to concede more land to Israel and to crush the legitimate Hamas government. As far as Israel abiding by international law and withdrawing to the 1967 borders, forget it. And until that happens they'll be no peace.
  • Posts: 21,037
    MrSmith wrote:
    Are you talking about Israel itslef as occupied territory? If so, they gotta let it fucking go. Israel isn't going anywhere. People are moved in for good. Even if Israel's existence is illegal, There has to be a statute of limitations on that type of thing. To continue sacrificing your people's lives for a bit of land after its become clear you have no outside support and will never win is just ridiculous, and ultimately selfish. It becomes a crusade.

    So the Palestinians are being ridiculous and selfish for asking for the illegal occupation to end? Now I've heard it all.
  • Posts: 21,037
    mammasan wrote:
    Good point. It is unfortunate that Palestinians lost there land and at this point Israel is willing to negotiate in order to install peace. As long as groups like Hamas continue to resort to violence they will never achieve anything. It's time to put down the weapons and sit down at the bargaining table regardless of who started it or who carries more blame, diplomacy is the only way this conflict will ever be solved.

    So Israel is willing to 'negotiate in order to install peace'? Really? Do you know what's on offer here? Please inform me, because I have no idea. Have you seen what Israel is now offering? If so, kindly share this information with us. As for Hamas '...continuing to resorting to violence', seems like you have a pretty one-eyed view of things as they actually are over there.

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