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So, I went to Venezuela
CaterinaA
Posts: 572
I returned to Venezuela for the first time in nine years. I know here in the MT many of you follow closely Chavez’s doings, so I thought it could be interesting to give you my impressions about what I saw, read, heard and felt. My family and I (my parents and my younger sister) lived in Venezuela for almost 18 years (from 1976 till 1993), afterwards we moved back to our birth country (Chile). My sister chose to move again to Venezuela last year, and since she got married, well we all went to attend the joyous event.
After nine years I was very anxious to see how Caracas would look like and also, both for personal and professional interest, to hear what people had to say about Chavez’s government. During my 10 days stay I saw as much news, asked as much questions and visited as much places as I could.
On a personal level it was a very emotional experience, seeing again many friends from high school, university, etc. Walking again the streets, seeing again the sights and last –but not least– see my “little” sister getting married and reuniting with my parents (I live in Buenos Aires and they are in Chile, yes we are a family that likes to move
).
About Venezuela’s situation, well there’s a lot to say. But first let me give some general information about the country. Venezuela is a Federal Republic divided in 21 states and a Federal District, where Caracas (its capital city) is placed. The country is located in the northern region of South America and has a tropical climate. Venezuela’s population is approx. 26 million people, of whom almost 16% are between 25 and 34 years old (this means Venezuela is a young country). Needless to say, Venezuela’s economic main resource is oil, followed by gas, steel and aluminium. Until the beginning of XXth century Venezuela’s economy was based on agriculture –cocoa, corn and coffee, mainly–. Regarding political issues, Venezuela is one the oldest democracies of Latin America, it has had a democratic uninterrupted regime since the mid 1950’s. However, during the 90’s Chavez’s conducted two failed Coup d’ Etat during Carlos Andrés Pérez second term as president.
About Caracas: the city is placed in a valley and is surrounded by mountains of an avg. of 1,500 meters. The city was built from the west to the east. In the west you have the poorer areas and the richer ones are located in the east. However, Caracas is a city without class awareness, since next to every rich neighbourhood there is a poor one.
About the people: Venezuelans have to be among the kindest people in this planet. Everybody is always in a happy mood, ready to open their homes to strangers, foreigners and, well, everybody. The most important ethnic communities are: Spaniards, Italians and Portuguese. However they are totally integrated with Venezuelans. One of the country’s particular traits is the fact that during colonial times Spaniards mixed with Indians and Slaves, so as we like to say Venezuelans come in all sizes and colours, irregardless of social class.
Exotic data: the country has one of the highest consumption per capita rates of scotch in the world. To provied some saying data: my sister’s wedding had almost 100 guests, who (I don’t like it, so I don't count) drunk 45 bottles of scotch.
About the current situation, I’ll do my best to not present my personal opinion, just convey what I “saw”.
My first impression was of shock, ‘cause after you leave the airport you see a huge hole where the bridge (which used to be approx. half the size of the Golden Gate Bridge) that used to connect Caracas with the beach area and the international airport and seaport were. This has created a very chaotic situation since the other roads are very precarious. Hence, what once was a 40 min. car-ride to the city has turned into an odyssey of more than 2 hours. Besides the loss of time (which is somewhat trivial if you are on a vacation) it has created lots of trouble for many people, especially for lower class people who have small businesses revolving around those who go to beach during the weekends, for poor people that have to travel to Caracas to go to work, and also for getting goods in and out of the country, since one of the biggest sea-ports is located in such beach area.
Once you enter the city, you first see the poorer areas (Catia la Mar and 23 de enero), which are mostly located on the mountains. For me this part of the city looked pretty much the same as it did 9 years ago. I saw no improvements, buildings and houses were falling apart like they always did. Once you’re approaching the east, buildings start to look in better shape. However, my overall impression is that Caracas has not changed much in 9 years. The “novelty” was four new shopping malls and several new slum areas. To me this first impression left me a little sad. I mean after 9 years a city has to change, infrastructure should be repaired and taken care of. One thing that impressed me was the amount of huge pictures of Chavez hanging from buildings, both governmental and non-governmental. I felt, somehow, like I was in Moscow during Stalin’s days.
Regarding people’s feelings about the political situation, I found a tremendous level of polarization. You’d think Chavez is a soccer team. People either love him or hate him, there is no middle ground. From both sides I found a total unwillingness to discuss or analyze their reasons for loving or hating the guy. Venezuelans used to be very apolitical, now politics are omnipresent. Almost every conversation I had (with friends, taxi drivers, janitors from bathrooms at the shopping malls, etc) revolved somehow about political juncture. I mean, the confrontation is so big there are Chavistas restaurants, clubs, bars, taxis and anti-Chavistas restaurants, clubs, bars, and etc. There is segregation taking place. Families torn apart, long time friends no longer speaking, all due to politics. The media is the same, you have both Chavista and anti-Chavista media (newspapers, TV, radio, you name it). I counted 4 channels which were clearly against Chavez, while the government has 4 channels, including one that broadcast the National Assembly (i.e. the Congress) sessions. These 8 channels have national coverage and are free (that is, they are not broadcasted through cable TV)
One of the most usual complaints I heard, from both sides, was the fact that even with the astronomic income the country is receiving from oil, infrastructure is falling apart throughout the whole country, yet at the same time Chavez gives away money to many countries to build roads, hospitals, etc. Examples in our region are: Cuba, Paraguay, Bolivia, Ecuador, Nicaragua, and he also gave money to a few African countries (Zimbabwe and others I can’t recall). Also people complain about the fact that Chavez has been funding political campaigns in several Latin American countries (like Evo Morales, from Bolivia and Ollanta Humala, from Peru), instead of using the money to solve Venezuela’s problems, like poor people housing problems, which are huge. Another general complaint (from both sides) is the amount of arms, planes and etc, the government is buying (Chavez is currently on a trip to Russia and Belarus to seal deals to buy planes and arms).
To see for myself, I visited a few of the government supermarkets, called MERCAL. Yes, goods’ prices were lower than in regular supermarkets. However, they were very short of supply and lacking pretty basic goods, such as milk and bread. Also I went to a public hospital to see if there were improvements, because my recollection was that they were a total mess, for the most part. I found little improvement (I’m only referring to the 2 I visited, which are the biggest in Caracas), people still had to wait in line for hours and bring their own supplies –like gauze, syringes, cotton, and etc–.
I had to opportunity to talk for a long hours with the mother of a close friend, one of the few persons I found willing to analyze and debate the situation. She’s a sociologist, devoted to public opinion and field research, and a long time member of the MAS (Movement towards Socialism) party. She’s been unemployed for almost 4 years now. She used to work for the government, but since she signed the Referendum petition she was fired and sort of banned from the government. This one of the many cases I heard about this “black list”. Many persons who signed such petition are having various problems, from denial of passport or ID cards to denial of retirement pensions or social protection. Well, with my husband we asked my friend’s mom lost of stuff. The first question was if poor people’s situation has improved since Chavez took office. What she told us was that there are “elites of the poor” whose situation had improved, namely the poor with political connections. But, for the most part people are living on the promise of a better future. Poor people are still expectant about all the promises Chavez has made, but she showed a deep concern for the fact that if those changes don’t take place in less than 2 or 3 years, Venezuela could be headed for big social unrest. This is an opinion I heard repeatedly, both in official and opposition media. The poor in Venezuela were promised heaven and beyond, but if these improvements don’t take place the deception will be huge. Then we asked why people , if improvements were not taking place, still supported him. She told us, that for the most part there are no choices. The opposition is totally fragmented, fighting each other and some are out of touch with reality. This I can say it is totally true. From what I saw, there is not a single person able to challenge Chavez leadership. Traditional parties have almost disappeared and people, in general, distrust politics, for obvious reasons. I believe that only a newcomer/outsider with humungous charisma and messianic proposals could win December’s elections.
Regarding the institutional situation, I have to say that the three powers are no longer independent. Supreme Justice is composed only by Chavez supporters, as well as the Congress and the Executive Power. On the papers I read about more than 10 trials for treason to the country (all of them against journalists). Approx. 35% of the Executive power is integrated by military personnel. And Chavez relatives are all over the place. His father is the governor of the birth-state of Chavez (Barinas) and his brother is about to be appointed as Foreign Affairs Secretariat. About corruption, my perception is that it has not diminished, it only changed hands.
About economics, well the country is receiving an incredible flow of oil-money. The sad part is that small and medium firms are disappearing due to the restrictions to buy US dollars, to export, to imports and to get credit. Governmental accountability is in all-time low. In order to prepare the public budget, the previsions for oil-price are fixed at 35 US dollars per barrel. Yet, we all know that oil-price is around 70 US dollars per barrel. The big question is where the rest of the money is going. Allegedly it will be used for political campaigns inside and outside Venezuela and for discretional expenditures.
Other things that impressed me were, first the amount of military force on the streets. That never happened in Venezuela; you had to go to military schools or forts to see them. Now they are everywhere. And second, the increase of kidnappings and political violence. Venezuela has always had high criminality rates, for various reasons. Yet, shootings between political rivals are a new phenomenon
My conclusion is that Venezuela is facing a complicated situation. I felt a tense calm; you know the calm before the storm. People, from both sides, are expecting something they are not getting: neither a real improvement in their life conditions nor a change of regime. Thankfully, in spite of all the turmoil Venezuelans keep their high spirits and kindness, otherwise a civil war would have long occurred.
An anecdote: I was with my husband and my dad trying to grab a taxi. Finally, one stops. It was a government taxi. So I approach the driver and tell him where I was going and he refused. I thought it was because of the heavy traffic. But no, he told me he did not go to “oligarchic neighbourhoods”. I found it very amusing, yet tragic…
For those interested in links regarding socioeconomic indicators and such I recommend the following:
http://www.eclac.cl/cgi-bin/getProd.asp?xml=/publicaciones/xml/4/24054/P24054.xml&xsl=/dds/tpl-i/p9f.xsl&base=/tpl/top-bottom.xslt
This is a publication carried out by ECLAC (Economic Commission for Latin America and the Caribbean), which is a United Nations organization.
Also this is the link to Venezuela’s bureau of statistics: http://www.ine.gov.ve/
Hope you did not bore too much reading this. My apologies both for my English and for the length of this post. Feel free to ask all the questions you want.
Peace
Caterina
EDIT: just to correct some grammar errors
After nine years I was very anxious to see how Caracas would look like and also, both for personal and professional interest, to hear what people had to say about Chavez’s government. During my 10 days stay I saw as much news, asked as much questions and visited as much places as I could.
On a personal level it was a very emotional experience, seeing again many friends from high school, university, etc. Walking again the streets, seeing again the sights and last –but not least– see my “little” sister getting married and reuniting with my parents (I live in Buenos Aires and they are in Chile, yes we are a family that likes to move
).About Venezuela’s situation, well there’s a lot to say. But first let me give some general information about the country. Venezuela is a Federal Republic divided in 21 states and a Federal District, where Caracas (its capital city) is placed. The country is located in the northern region of South America and has a tropical climate. Venezuela’s population is approx. 26 million people, of whom almost 16% are between 25 and 34 years old (this means Venezuela is a young country). Needless to say, Venezuela’s economic main resource is oil, followed by gas, steel and aluminium. Until the beginning of XXth century Venezuela’s economy was based on agriculture –cocoa, corn and coffee, mainly–. Regarding political issues, Venezuela is one the oldest democracies of Latin America, it has had a democratic uninterrupted regime since the mid 1950’s. However, during the 90’s Chavez’s conducted two failed Coup d’ Etat during Carlos Andrés Pérez second term as president.
About Caracas: the city is placed in a valley and is surrounded by mountains of an avg. of 1,500 meters. The city was built from the west to the east. In the west you have the poorer areas and the richer ones are located in the east. However, Caracas is a city without class awareness, since next to every rich neighbourhood there is a poor one.
About the people: Venezuelans have to be among the kindest people in this planet. Everybody is always in a happy mood, ready to open their homes to strangers, foreigners and, well, everybody. The most important ethnic communities are: Spaniards, Italians and Portuguese. However they are totally integrated with Venezuelans. One of the country’s particular traits is the fact that during colonial times Spaniards mixed with Indians and Slaves, so as we like to say Venezuelans come in all sizes and colours, irregardless of social class.
Exotic data: the country has one of the highest consumption per capita rates of scotch in the world. To provied some saying data: my sister’s wedding had almost 100 guests, who (I don’t like it, so I don't count) drunk 45 bottles of scotch.
About the current situation, I’ll do my best to not present my personal opinion, just convey what I “saw”.
My first impression was of shock, ‘cause after you leave the airport you see a huge hole where the bridge (which used to be approx. half the size of the Golden Gate Bridge) that used to connect Caracas with the beach area and the international airport and seaport were. This has created a very chaotic situation since the other roads are very precarious. Hence, what once was a 40 min. car-ride to the city has turned into an odyssey of more than 2 hours. Besides the loss of time (which is somewhat trivial if you are on a vacation) it has created lots of trouble for many people, especially for lower class people who have small businesses revolving around those who go to beach during the weekends, for poor people that have to travel to Caracas to go to work, and also for getting goods in and out of the country, since one of the biggest sea-ports is located in such beach area.
Once you enter the city, you first see the poorer areas (Catia la Mar and 23 de enero), which are mostly located on the mountains. For me this part of the city looked pretty much the same as it did 9 years ago. I saw no improvements, buildings and houses were falling apart like they always did. Once you’re approaching the east, buildings start to look in better shape. However, my overall impression is that Caracas has not changed much in 9 years. The “novelty” was four new shopping malls and several new slum areas. To me this first impression left me a little sad. I mean after 9 years a city has to change, infrastructure should be repaired and taken care of. One thing that impressed me was the amount of huge pictures of Chavez hanging from buildings, both governmental and non-governmental. I felt, somehow, like I was in Moscow during Stalin’s days.
Regarding people’s feelings about the political situation, I found a tremendous level of polarization. You’d think Chavez is a soccer team. People either love him or hate him, there is no middle ground. From both sides I found a total unwillingness to discuss or analyze their reasons for loving or hating the guy. Venezuelans used to be very apolitical, now politics are omnipresent. Almost every conversation I had (with friends, taxi drivers, janitors from bathrooms at the shopping malls, etc) revolved somehow about political juncture. I mean, the confrontation is so big there are Chavistas restaurants, clubs, bars, taxis and anti-Chavistas restaurants, clubs, bars, and etc. There is segregation taking place. Families torn apart, long time friends no longer speaking, all due to politics. The media is the same, you have both Chavista and anti-Chavista media (newspapers, TV, radio, you name it). I counted 4 channels which were clearly against Chavez, while the government has 4 channels, including one that broadcast the National Assembly (i.e. the Congress) sessions. These 8 channels have national coverage and are free (that is, they are not broadcasted through cable TV)
One of the most usual complaints I heard, from both sides, was the fact that even with the astronomic income the country is receiving from oil, infrastructure is falling apart throughout the whole country, yet at the same time Chavez gives away money to many countries to build roads, hospitals, etc. Examples in our region are: Cuba, Paraguay, Bolivia, Ecuador, Nicaragua, and he also gave money to a few African countries (Zimbabwe and others I can’t recall). Also people complain about the fact that Chavez has been funding political campaigns in several Latin American countries (like Evo Morales, from Bolivia and Ollanta Humala, from Peru), instead of using the money to solve Venezuela’s problems, like poor people housing problems, which are huge. Another general complaint (from both sides) is the amount of arms, planes and etc, the government is buying (Chavez is currently on a trip to Russia and Belarus to seal deals to buy planes and arms).
To see for myself, I visited a few of the government supermarkets, called MERCAL. Yes, goods’ prices were lower than in regular supermarkets. However, they were very short of supply and lacking pretty basic goods, such as milk and bread. Also I went to a public hospital to see if there were improvements, because my recollection was that they were a total mess, for the most part. I found little improvement (I’m only referring to the 2 I visited, which are the biggest in Caracas), people still had to wait in line for hours and bring their own supplies –like gauze, syringes, cotton, and etc–.
I had to opportunity to talk for a long hours with the mother of a close friend, one of the few persons I found willing to analyze and debate the situation. She’s a sociologist, devoted to public opinion and field research, and a long time member of the MAS (Movement towards Socialism) party. She’s been unemployed for almost 4 years now. She used to work for the government, but since she signed the Referendum petition she was fired and sort of banned from the government. This one of the many cases I heard about this “black list”. Many persons who signed such petition are having various problems, from denial of passport or ID cards to denial of retirement pensions or social protection. Well, with my husband we asked my friend’s mom lost of stuff. The first question was if poor people’s situation has improved since Chavez took office. What she told us was that there are “elites of the poor” whose situation had improved, namely the poor with political connections. But, for the most part people are living on the promise of a better future. Poor people are still expectant about all the promises Chavez has made, but she showed a deep concern for the fact that if those changes don’t take place in less than 2 or 3 years, Venezuela could be headed for big social unrest. This is an opinion I heard repeatedly, both in official and opposition media. The poor in Venezuela were promised heaven and beyond, but if these improvements don’t take place the deception will be huge. Then we asked why people , if improvements were not taking place, still supported him. She told us, that for the most part there are no choices. The opposition is totally fragmented, fighting each other and some are out of touch with reality. This I can say it is totally true. From what I saw, there is not a single person able to challenge Chavez leadership. Traditional parties have almost disappeared and people, in general, distrust politics, for obvious reasons. I believe that only a newcomer/outsider with humungous charisma and messianic proposals could win December’s elections.
Regarding the institutional situation, I have to say that the three powers are no longer independent. Supreme Justice is composed only by Chavez supporters, as well as the Congress and the Executive Power. On the papers I read about more than 10 trials for treason to the country (all of them against journalists). Approx. 35% of the Executive power is integrated by military personnel. And Chavez relatives are all over the place. His father is the governor of the birth-state of Chavez (Barinas) and his brother is about to be appointed as Foreign Affairs Secretariat. About corruption, my perception is that it has not diminished, it only changed hands.
About economics, well the country is receiving an incredible flow of oil-money. The sad part is that small and medium firms are disappearing due to the restrictions to buy US dollars, to export, to imports and to get credit. Governmental accountability is in all-time low. In order to prepare the public budget, the previsions for oil-price are fixed at 35 US dollars per barrel. Yet, we all know that oil-price is around 70 US dollars per barrel. The big question is where the rest of the money is going. Allegedly it will be used for political campaigns inside and outside Venezuela and for discretional expenditures.
Other things that impressed me were, first the amount of military force on the streets. That never happened in Venezuela; you had to go to military schools or forts to see them. Now they are everywhere. And second, the increase of kidnappings and political violence. Venezuela has always had high criminality rates, for various reasons. Yet, shootings between political rivals are a new phenomenon
My conclusion is that Venezuela is facing a complicated situation. I felt a tense calm; you know the calm before the storm. People, from both sides, are expecting something they are not getting: neither a real improvement in their life conditions nor a change of regime. Thankfully, in spite of all the turmoil Venezuelans keep their high spirits and kindness, otherwise a civil war would have long occurred.
An anecdote: I was with my husband and my dad trying to grab a taxi. Finally, one stops. It was a government taxi. So I approach the driver and tell him where I was going and he refused. I thought it was because of the heavy traffic. But no, he told me he did not go to “oligarchic neighbourhoods”. I found it very amusing, yet tragic…
For those interested in links regarding socioeconomic indicators and such I recommend the following:
http://www.eclac.cl/cgi-bin/getProd.asp?xml=/publicaciones/xml/4/24054/P24054.xml&xsl=/dds/tpl-i/p9f.xsl&base=/tpl/top-bottom.xslt
This is a publication carried out by ECLAC (Economic Commission for Latin America and the Caribbean), which is a United Nations organization.
Also this is the link to Venezuela’s bureau of statistics: http://www.ine.gov.ve/
Hope you did not bore too much reading this. My apologies both for my English and for the length of this post. Feel free to ask all the questions you want.
Peace
Caterina
EDIT: just to correct some grammar errors
Post edited by Unknown User on
0
Comments
Did you read this post: http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=204257 ?
It appears as though Mr. Cohen's views may have a political taint.
I don't hate anyone.
I'm more of a hate...stylist.
I flipped through the statistics too a bit. One thing that has improved over the last years is infant mortality and life expectancy. So it seems the health initiative is working somewhat at least. Otherwise, economic and distribution indicators were pretty much unchanged as far as I could see. although government workers now are less prone to poverty incomes.
So it looks like "look at the new boss, same as the old boss" (Rage line is it?) happening as you hinted. New boss, same shit, but with a health program. See I never felt right about being too supportive of Chavez, even if he is "sticking it to the man" with the americans. (which is amusing, if not constructive) I sure don't hope he's the model for socialists today in Southern America with his authoritarian streak. But I guess his type may appeal to the "we're sick and tired of this shit" population that just wants a change, any change and see how it works out.
Anyway, thanks for the report Cate. It was interesting, and I feel I may have learned something.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
Thanks Dan and also to those who enjoyed the reading.
Chavez gets a lot of press around the world, he's very outspoken and flamboyant and very charismatic and also for his confrontantion with Bush (or Mr. Danger as he likes to call him) that's for sure. However, I always wonder if he could be so confrontational without all the oil-money (at the same time I believe that why he's still in power and maybe alive).
He's been having a lot of influence in Latin America lately. Not all of it positive I might add. For example, during last peruvian elections, many political analyst are saying that Chavez, to his regret played a part in Garcia's reelection. Chavez has very outspoken in his support for Ollanta Humala. He even menaced to break diplomatic relations with Peru if Garcia won. Well, Peruvians thought their elections were none of Chavez business and in the end this helped the undecided to choose Alan Garcia. Chavez has really played a role, even if minor, in adding instability (spelling?) to our region. Chile and Venezuela's relations are on a shaky level due to Chavez outspoken support to Bolivia's claim to regain sea. Also he unilaterally left the Comunidad Andina de Naciones (a trade arrangement between Andean countries, i.e. Colombia, Venezuela, Peru, Ecuador and Bolivia), 'cause Peru and Ecuador manifested interest in signing trade agreements with the US. This does not break any law or rule of the Comunidad Andina. Needless to say, such event created a lot of political turmoil in an already conflictive area.
Here in Latin America most political analysts, academics, politicians and people related to public affairs and politics tend point out both Chile and Brasil as role models. Especially Chile, since the return of democracy Chile has showed that social democracy can work in developing countries. I believe that Chile's former President Ricardo Lagos is, perhaps with Uruguay's current president Tabare Vazquez, the most respected politicians of our region.
We all hope our leaders don't follow such an authoritarian pattern. We've struggled for many decades to achieve democracy and I hope we hold on to it. Yet, it is correct, when people are fed-up (and many Latin Americans are, for very justifiable reasons) tend to believe messianic proposals.
I feel I left out lot of stuff, but I'll keep remembering. If I recall anything post-worthy, I'll come back. And I also have pictures from Caracas that I have to upload yet...
I have heard good things about Chile when it comes to these things. Maybe I'll relook at the statistics soon, and have a look at the Chilean stats. (I just browsed the Venezuelan ones this time around)
Anything you can come up with would be interesting.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
Thanks a lot.
Yes I've read that post. Actually the title of my thread was a reference to it.
Perhaps Mr. Cohen has a political lecture. I believe somehow we all do have one. I just tried to convey what I saw during my stay in Caracas in the most objective way I could.
I read while I was in Venezuela lots of stuff about the agricultural cooperatives and how the money granted to them was somehow vanishining and not targeting intended beneficiaries. An interesting data is that Venezuela's food imports haven been systematically increasing.
Cheers from Argentina
Caterina
now just wondering where all of our Chavez lovers on the train are after this?
maybe gettin airfare refunds on travelocity?
You're welcome and totally correct about balance. But for some weird reason, here in Latin America we like to swindle from one extreme to the other. This I found particularly worrying, if all these populist experiments we are having right now fail, what will voters do? Will they chose a balanced choice or will they go for another experiment of the opposite sign?
Here, where I live, we get hardly any news about South America...
...only some political headlines that do not offer any insight on the situation.
Hence, I appreciate it alot to read first hands impressions and thoughts.
That helps me alot to start drawing a picture.
although it took me a few days til my day off to read the article,
it was worth all times... great written and with lots of information.
thanks a lot for taking the time and posting your experiences.
...the world is come undone, I like to change it everyday but change don't come at once, it's a wave, building before it breaks.
his strength is not in the military - it will ultimately be in the people ... if he turns his back on the people - he will lose ...
Well if they fail I guess the will just have to keep trying till they find a decent formula that works. South America has tried the other alternative for the past 100 years and havent been able to advance economically. For a regoin that is so rich in resources there is no excuse for there to be the poverty that there is. all the money is going north and they are getting very little back. I personally think that the leftist movement is healthy so that they can even out their local economies hence they have more control over them. The US has no interest in the people of south of the border all they care about is the money they can make from them. That is not a good neighbor as they claim to be..........eso es ser un cabron.
perdon por la vulgaridad
I've already told you how i'd like to travel south america, this post just add to the dream, someday...
-Jean-Jacques Rousseau
No problem por la vulgaridad; todo bien
About the US, I know they have not been what we'd call A-list neighbour. However, we Latin Americans are the ones to blame for our mistakes, bad political choices, mishandling of our economies. To me it is fundamental we learn that, otherwise our politicians will go on blaming others and not take responsibility for what they've done.
I dont think its all the peoples fault, many of the political options that they had were backed by US policy. Chile comes to mind. Yes people need to be more educated when selecting their leaders but lets not forget that humans are very easily manipulated and are capable of doing some of the dumbest things. And that goes to Americans also, most of the people who vote in the US need to educate themselves alot more. The difference is that the US is so rich that they can afford to be stupid.
I agree with you. I don't think it is entirely people's fault, there are other factors playing a role, namely external influences. However, I believe it is important to stress our mistakes, otherwise politics keep playing the foreign pressure card (when you steal public funds it is because of your own greediness and not US or Europe's politicians fault) and get away with everything. And yes, THE issue at stake in Latin America is education. When the masses actually receive quality education, things will change here. Too bad politicians are also aware of this.
Exactly! He has the chance to prove this kind of system can work and benefit his people at the same time. But he's too busy letting this over paranoia and political agenda get in the way of all the good he could do. I don't believe that this is the way a socialist style system is supposed to work anymore than I believe that under Bush this is how a democracy is supposed to work. If he can't manage more progress than this then all his promises are nothing more than political lip service. Maybe with enough criticism, he will start to turn situation back around.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Communism = state control of all, no private property, no dissent
Facism = state control of all, but private property is allowed, no dissent
Capitalism = privatization, dissent allowed, private property allowed
Socialism tries to merge the them all into one, but that isn't really easily defined.
I really am not sure if Venezuela is socialist or facist or communist. It seems to lean much more to the left (that is both communism and facism) than socialist. Once the power is gained by such a small group of persons then the population suffers. He might even be a madman, look at the company he keeps.
I really don't understand why anyone would prefer communism, facism, or socialism to capitalism (despite its flaws) when you consider what it means. But there is no pure example of any system. Except maybe N Korea, they have come real close to the ultimate result of communism.
I, personally, am leaning more towards libertarian socialism. I know our country is quite far from this concept so I also try to work within the system that we've got, hoping for small victories where we can get them. But ideally, this sounds best to me.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism
(I guess we should make another thread for this, as well
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I can't concede to any concept that takes private property from the individual. As flawed as I am, I am a better steward of my own life and resources than any government ever could be. Government is the problem more often than not, goverment is just another faceless corporation in my mind.
Top that off with anarchist and I start to get dizzy!
Capitalism is an economic system and has nothing to do with the allowance of dissent. A nation can be both capitalistic and totalitarian. In fact, some might say that's what facism is.
You're kind of right about socialism, though; it is rather poorly defined. Basically (and I mean basically), it's a society where resources (usually money and land - but not all money and land) are pooled for the good of the population. We have quite a bit of socialism here in the U.S. Medicaid, Social Security, public/national parks, government investment (our tax dollars) in the private sector (for both profit and non-profit organizations), income tax, etc. Most nations in the Western world (hell, probably most nations anywhere) have a least some instances of it.
Hi dear Nicki
Thanks so much for your compliments. I'm glad you liked my post. Sorry, I've just seen your reply
See ya later!
Cate