what's the fucking deal with Israel?
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The Israel situation is not something that will be solved this election.0
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Heineken Helen wrote:what's the fucking deal with Israel?
By MARK LAVIE, Associated Press Writer
1 hour, 34 minutes ago
JERUSALEM - A rocket fired from the Gaza Strip exploded in a shopping center in the southern Israeli city of Ashkelon on Wednesday, wounding at least 14 people, rescue officials said.
The attack came as President Bush wrapped up talks in Jerusalem with Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert. The Israeli leader said Israel would not tolerate attacks by extremists in Gaza, which has been controlled by the Islamic militants of the Hamas movement since last June.
Two militant groups, the Iranian-backed Islamic Jihad and the Hamas-linked Popular Resistance Committees, claimed responsibility for the rocket strike.
Army Radio said the rocket hit the third floor of the Hutzot mall. The report said a clinic takes up part of the floor. Witnesses said an early warning system meant to give a few seconds for people to take cover did not sound an alarm before the rocket slammed into the mall.
The Magen David Adom rescue service said three people were wounded seriously and 11 others had lesser injuries. But Leah Malul, an official at Barzilai Hospital in Ashkelon, said two women and two girls suffered serious injuries.
A witness identified only as Yuri told Israel Radio he was on the first floor when the rocket hit two floors above.
"There was the sound of a really loud explosion. Everybody started running, it was a really big mess. I went outside and saw smoke in the air. All the windows were blown out," he said.
Two Israelis have been killed in recent days in attacks by Palestinian militants on Israeli communities near the border with Gaza.
Such attacks often draw a military response from Israel, and five Palestinians were killed earlier Wednesday during Israeli military operations in Gaza.
While militants have fired homemade rockets into rural southern Israeli border towns for several years, only recently have they gained the capability to target Ashkelon, a city of 110,000 people about nine miles from the border. The longer-range attacks involve foreign-made Grad-type rockets.
Israel believes Islamic Jihad gets the Grads from Iran. "It's part of the Iranian war against Israel," former Deputy Defense Minister Ephraim Sneh told Israel Radio.
After meeting with Bush, the prime minister blamed Hamas.
"We will not be able to tolerate continuous attacks on innocent civilians," Olmert said. "We hope we will not have to act against Hamas in other ways with the military power that Israel hasn't yet started to use in a serious manner in order to stop it."
Israel has been reluctant to launch a major ground offensive in Gaza, worrying about casualties to its soldiers.
Israel's high-tech military has been unable to find a way to stop the crude rockets. Past invasions have halted daily rocket fire only briefly, and the barrages resumed as soon as Israeli troops pulled out.
Before he leaves office in January, Bush hopes to broker a peace agreement between Israel and the moderate Palestinian government of President Mahmoud Abbas in the West Bank. Israel has warned it will not sign any accord until Abbas regains control of Gaza from Hamas.
Abbas claims the West Bank and Gaza — areas on opposite sides of Israel — for a future independent state. Hamas, which is to Israel's destruction, opposes the peace talks.0 -
MLC2006 wrote:By MARK LAVIE, Associated Press Writer
1 hour, 34 minutes ago
JERUSALEM - A rocket fired from the Gaza Strip exploded in a shopping center in the southern Israeli city of Ashkelon on Wednesday, wounding at least 14 people, rescue officials said.
The attack came as President Bush wrapped up talks in Jerusalem with Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert. The Israeli leader said Israel would not tolerate attacks by extremists in Gaza, which has been controlled by the Islamic militants of the Hamas movement since last June.
Two militant groups, the Iranian-backed Islamic Jihad and the Hamas-linked Popular Resistance Committees, claimed responsibility for the rocket strike.
Army Radio said the rocket hit the third floor of the Hutzot mall. The report said a clinic takes up part of the floor. Witnesses said an early warning system meant to give a few seconds for people to take cover did not sound an alarm before the rocket slammed into the mall.
The Magen David Adom rescue service said three people were wounded seriously and 11 others had lesser injuries. But Leah Malul, an official at Barzilai Hospital in Ashkelon, said two women and two girls suffered serious injuries.
A witness identified only as Yuri told Israel Radio he was on the first floor when the rocket hit two floors above.
"There was the sound of a really loud explosion. Everybody started running, it was a really big mess. I went outside and saw smoke in the air. All the windows were blown out," he said.
Two Israelis have been killed in recent days in attacks by Palestinian militants on Israeli communities near the border with Gaza.
Such attacks often draw a military response from Israel, and five Palestinians were killed earlier Wednesday during Israeli military operations in Gaza.
While militants have fired homemade rockets into rural southern Israeli border towns for several years, only recently have they gained the capability to target Ashkelon, a city of 110,000 people about nine miles from the border. The longer-range attacks involve foreign-made Grad-type rockets.
Israel believes Islamic Jihad gets the Grads from Iran. "It's part of the Iranian war against Israel," former Deputy Defense Minister Ephraim Sneh told Israel Radio.
After meeting with Bush, the prime minister blamed Hamas.
"We will not be able to tolerate continuous attacks on innocent civilians," Olmert said. "We hope we will not have to act against Hamas in other ways with the military power that Israel hasn't yet started to use in a serious manner in order to stop it."
Israel has been reluctant to launch a major ground offensive in Gaza, worrying about casualties to its soldiers.
Israel's high-tech military has been unable to find a way to stop the crude rockets. Past invasions have halted daily rocket fire only briefly, and the barrages resumed as soon as Israeli troops pulled out.
Before he leaves office in January, Bush hopes to broker a peace agreement between Israel and the moderate Palestinian government of President Mahmoud Abbas in the West Bank. Israel has warned it will not sign any accord until Abbas regains control of Gaza from Hamas.
Abbas claims the West Bank and Gaza — areas on opposite sides of Israel — for a future independent state. Hamas, which is to Israel's destruction, opposes the peace talks.
While I in no way condone Hamas' attacks on civilians, the highlighted paragraph strikes me as particularly hypocritical.Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.0 -
Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:While I in no way condone Hamas' attacks on civilians, the highlighted paragraph strikes me as particularly hypocritical.
why? surely the leader of the country would not continue to tolerate attacks on civilians. if you're taking about about the last part of the quote, I think it's pretty common knowledge that Israel has more firepower than Hamas. Sounds to me as if he's trying to give them fair warning to cut that shit out.0 -
MLC2006 wrote:why? surely the leader of the country would not continue to tolerate attacks on civilians. if you're taking about about the last part of the quote, I think it's pretty common knowledge that Israel has more firepower than Hamas. Sounds to me as if he's trying to give them fair warning to cut that shit out.
I think it's hypocritical to say they won't tolerate attacks on civilians when they've been killing many, many more civilians than Palestine has. You don't get to act offended if the country you've been indiscriminately bombing retaliates every now and then.Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.0 -
Im in shock... there are actually people here who agree with my beliefs on this matter. Usually all of my Jewish friends make me feel so bad about the situation that I'm not even allowed to talk about it.
Anyway, it really did dissapoint me to hear Obama say he'll support Israel- he did it just to get those votes.severed hand thirteen2006: Gorge 7/23 2008: Hartford 6/27 Beacon 7/1 2009: Spectrum 10/30-31
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2025: Pittsburgh 5/16+5/180 -
Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:I think it's hypocritical to say they won't tolerate attacks on civilians when they've been killing many, many more civilians than Palestine has. You don't get to act offended if the country you've been indiscriminately bombing retaliates every now and then.
so what you're saying is that what Israel is doing is called "indiscriminate bombing", and what the Palestinians are doing is called "retaliation"?0 -
MLC2006 wrote:so what you're saying is that what Israel is doing is called "indiscriminate bombing", and what the Palestinians are doing is called "retaliation"?
Oh, I have no doubt that the Palestinians are indiscriminately bombing. But they're not doing it as often, they're fighting off an oppressing force with military superiority, and they're killing far fewer people. Guiding a crude bomb isn't an exact science. Air strikes are.Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.0 -
Isn't Israel the only nation in the Middle East that possesses both Nuclear warheads and tested delivery systems?
I have asked this before... why should America bomb (*insert Arab/Persian threat du jour here*) if said Arab nation bombs Israel? Shouldn't ISRAEL bomb them? Are we Israel's bodyguard? If so... WHY do they need nukes?
israel is all grown up now and has gotten pretty tough. Why do Americans theat them like some tiny infant? They have fucking nukes!!! Are you willing to fuck with an infant that can nuke your ass??? If you answered, yes... what kind of a fucking idiot are you???Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!0 -
Cosmo wrote:Isn't Israel the only nation in the Middle East that possesses both Nuclear warheads and tested delivery systems?
I have asked this before... why should America bomb (*insert Arab/Persian threat du jour here*) if said Arab nation bombs Israel? Shouldn't ISRAEL bomb them? Are we Israel's bodyguard? If so... WHY do they need nukes?
israel is all grown up now and has gotten pretty tough. Why do Americans theat them like some tiny infant? They have fucking nukes!!! Are you willing to fuck with an infant that can nuke your ass??? If you answered, yes... what kind of a fucking idiot are you???
hehe, nice analogy. thats the way ive always seen Israel - very much a force to be reckoned with - so when i was younger and started seeing American coverage of Israel always mystified me, cos it presented me with a very different, more unrealistic Israel!
i think another analogy is the North of Ireland. Simply removing people from an area of land and claiming its yours does not work and has never worked peacefully anywhere on earth. they both have as much right to be there, and theyre both bombing the shit out of each other
but Israel like Rhino said, are massively resourced and powerful, so i dont see the need to act the victim all the time? just pisses me off0 -
Abook, this place would be go under in a minute without you.Abookamongstthemany wrote:Not Nader
http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0718-33.htm
(oh look, this is from 2006, not a presidential election year)
Great job!0 -
Heineken Helen wrote:And why are all the candidates going on about how they'll protect it? Does it not piss you off that your country is probably spending BILLIONS a year to protect another country halfway around the world... a conflict that only makes you a target? As an outsider, it seems pretty fucking ridiculous! I know about the whole money thing and how america is run by Jews and all that BUT... fucking hell, could their intentions BE more obvious?
Yep, America is run by Jews, and Irish people are all uneducated drunks.
You've hit a new low in ignorance!0 -
im a bit shocked that this thread has gone in such a direction... Israel is the one SANE country in the entire middle east. The Israeli's try to live in peace, yet got constantly bombed and bombarded by Hamas.... Imagine you lived in Michigan and the Canadians were hitting your neighborhood with rockets... how would you react?
As for why does the US back Israel... Once again, they are the only SANE country in that region. There is a TON of oil in the Middle East. With Israel wiped off the map, you are left with the radicals in Lebanon, Syria, and Iraq... what do you think would remain of that region without Israel being there? It would be a fuckin BARRON WASTELAND RUN BY FUCKING TERRORISTS!!! Given that amount of land with equally fucked up leaders, do you think they would want to start to expand their reach into other countries? HMMMM... you think $4 Gasoline is bad... wait till its $50...
WAKE THE FUCK UP!!!!4/12/92, 8/11/92, 9/28/96, 9/11/98, 8/23/00, 8/24/00, 7/9/03, 4/30/03, 10/1/04, 10/3/05, 12/9/05, 5/12/06, 5/17/06, 5/28/06, 6/3/06, 12/9/06, EV LA 4/12-4/13/08, 6/12/08, 6,19,08, 6,20,08, 6/24/08, 6/25/08, 7/1/08
and still jonesing for another show....
"the waiting drove me mad..."0 -
NYbenben wrote:im a bit shocked that this thread has gone in such a direction... Israel is the one SANE country in the entire middle east. The Israeli's try to live in peace, yet got constantly bombed and bombarded by Hamas.... Imagine you lived in Michigan and the Canadians were hitting your neighborhood with rockets... how would you react?
As for why does the US back Israel... Once again, they are the only SANE country in that region. There is a TON of oil in the Middle East. With Israel wiped off the map, you are left with the radicals in Lebanon, Syria, and Iraq... what do you think would remain of that region without Israel being there? It would be a fuckin BARRON WASTELAND RUN BY FUCKING TERRORISTS!!! Given that amount of land with equally fucked up leaders, do you think they would want to start to expand their reach into other countries? HMMMM... you think $4 Gasoline is bad... wait till its $50...
WAKE THE FUCK UP!!!!
Israel... the sane country? I mean... I know the Middle Ease isn't exactly a model of human co-existence... but seriously?
I didn't want to have to play this card, but: they're killing civilians over land that was 'promised' to them, by 'God'. At least some of the other governments are fighting over something worthwhile, like oil.Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.0 -
Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:Israel... the sane country? I mean... I know the Middle Ease isn't exactly a model of human co-existence... but seriously?
I didn't want to have to play this card, but: they're killing civilians over land that was 'promised' to them, by 'God'. At least some of the other governments are fighting over something worthwhile, like oil.
Promissed them by god? I think not... Even when the Palastinians were given the chance to co-exist and live together in peace, they could not and would not... You had suicide bombers blowing up buses and restaurants killing innocent people going on with their lives... no Israeli will tell you that they REFUSE to live with Palastinians in the same place... however, slowly but surely the Palastinians want more and more land of "thier own"... keep giving it to them and then what do you have? the end of Israel...Palastinians however and Hamas in general REFUSE to recognize Israel as a state/country. Why is that? Cant they live together in harmony? Appartnely NOT...4/12/92, 8/11/92, 9/28/96, 9/11/98, 8/23/00, 8/24/00, 7/9/03, 4/30/03, 10/1/04, 10/3/05, 12/9/05, 5/12/06, 5/17/06, 5/28/06, 6/3/06, 12/9/06, EV LA 4/12-4/13/08, 6/12/08, 6,19,08, 6,20,08, 6/24/08, 6/25/08, 7/1/08
and still jonesing for another show....
"the waiting drove me mad..."0 -
Then at least you and I can agree. No way in hell did God promise them that land....but that is in fact what they and millions of others do beLIEve.NYbenben wrote:Promissed them by god? I think not...0 -
NYbenben wrote:Promissed them by god? I think not... Even when the Palastinians were given the chance to co-exist and live together in peace, they could not and would not... You had suicide bombers blowing up buses and restaurants killing innocent people going on with their lives... no Israeli will tell you that they REFUSE to live with Palastinians in the same place... however, slowly but surely the Palastinians want more and more land of "thier own"... keep giving it to them and then what do you have? the end of Israel...Palastinians however and Hamas in general REFUSE to recognize Israel as a state/country. Why is that? Cant they live together in harmony? Appartnely NOT...
No Israeli... except the ones in power. That's what it's all about - corrupt leadership, bonding with corrupt leadership. Besides which, last I heard, Hamas was fairly elected into government a few years back, at which point they were promptly declared a terrorist group by the US and Israel, and imprisoned. Can't they live together in harmony? Apparently not...Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.0 -
I try to be fair....I really do. But this whole pro-Israel bullshit really makes me skeptical of the jewish agenda and the relationship with the U.S. It's so far from fair. And so far from right. Any rational human can see that.0
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...NYbenben wrote:Promissed them by god? I think not... Even when the Palastinians were given the chance to co-exist and live together in peace, they could not and would not... You had suicide bombers blowing up buses and restaurants killing innocent people going on with their lives... no Israeli will tell you that they REFUSE to live with Palastinians in the same place... however, slowly but surely the Palastinians want more and more land of "thier own"... keep giving it to them and then what do you have? the end of Israel...Palastinians however and Hamas in general REFUSE to recognize Israel as a state/country. Why is that? Cant they live together in harmony? Appartnely NOT...
How about israel giving up the territories that seized in 1967 and 1973... The Golan Heights to Syria, The West Bank to Jordan and the Gaza Strip to Egypt. Then, it becomes Syria's, Jordan's and Eqypt's responsibility to control their side of the border. Failure to control Palestinians in Egypt, for example, results in Egypt being held accountable.
...
Also... I pretty sure I can find ONE Israeli who will tell me he/she refuses to live with Palestinians.Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!0 -
Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:No Israeli... except the ones in power. That's what it's all about - corrupt leadership, bonding with corrupt leadership. Besides which, last I heard, Hamas was fairly elected into government a few years back, at which point they were promptly declared a terrorist group by the US and Israel, and imprisoned. Can't they live together in harmony? Apparently not...
show me any country that leaders are not corrupt including mine and yours!! However, there is a difference between wanting to live in peace and having to deal with people killing your constituates and countrymen EVERY DAY just for a peace of land? Have we all gone mad? Hamas may have been fairly elected into government but they were declared a terrorist group a long time before that!! get the facts straight. FACT-- HAMAS IS A TERRORIST GROUP!!4/12/92, 8/11/92, 9/28/96, 9/11/98, 8/23/00, 8/24/00, 7/9/03, 4/30/03, 10/1/04, 10/3/05, 12/9/05, 5/12/06, 5/17/06, 5/28/06, 6/3/06, 12/9/06, EV LA 4/12-4/13/08, 6/12/08, 6,19,08, 6,20,08, 6/24/08, 6/25/08, 7/1/08
and still jonesing for another show....
"the waiting drove me mad..."0
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