Better access to contraception will lower abortion rate

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  • Posts: 1,890
    soulsinging wrote:
    yes, most americans are that dumb and dont know about removing the air before application so it doesn't burst. they dont know what kinds of lubricants will destroy its effectiveness.

    you say you've used condoms... you've had sex outside marriage then? isn't that immoral? how come you're allowed to and others aren't?

    Most americans aren't that dumb. You probably are that dumb.

    I didn't say whether I've used condoms or not, and that is a personal issue "soulsinging." This is a pearl jam political forum.
    All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
    -Enoch Powell
  • Posts: 13,202
    CorporateWhore wrote:
    Most americans aren't that dumb. You probably are that dumb.

    I didn't say whether I've used condoms or not, and that is a personal issue "soulsinging." This is a pearl jam political forum.

    smells like hypocrite to me...

    check the statistics. americans are idiots. they fall well below average in almost every measure of academia and their high school graduation rates are abysmal. our schools are a failure. and this is only one of many testaments to that.
  • Posts: 13,202
    cornnifer wrote:
    i'm sure "some" Christians are. i'm also sure "some" non-christians are as well.
    i think maybe the catholic church may have at some point taken an anti-contraception stance, but the majority of Christians around the world are not catholic (this is not a catholic smear).

    catholic doctrine says contraception is immoral in all circumstances, even within marriage. dont know about the rest of christianity. regardless of what the official church stance is however, most of the opposition to comprehensive sex ed in schools comes from christians who think that telling teenagers how to practice safe sex amounts to handing them $50 and a rubber and directions to the whorehouse. that's ridiculous. our abstinence programs do not work and no amount of moral indignation/denial can dispel that reality.
  • Posts: 1,890
    soulsinging wrote:
    smells like hypocrite to me...

    check the statistics. americans are idiots. they fall well below average in almost every measure of academia and their high school graduation rates are abysmal. our schools are a failure. and this is only one of many testaments to that.

    Additionally, it's not hypocritical at all because I've never claimed that sex before marriage is wrong or that contraception is immoral. Nonetheless, you should stop grasping for arguments where you have none, consistently. It seems you have trouble actually making a point.

    Americans are not idiots. Our non-immigrant population does very well in academia and high school graduation rates.
    All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
    -Enoch Powell
  • Posts: 14,977
    OutOfBreath wrote:
    That's kind of a "d'uh" ain't it?

    Peace
    Dan



    exactly my thought after reading that! :p

    it really IS a no-brainer...and yet, we fail to do so....over and over.


    and sheesh.....glad to see my marriage is considered 'pointless' by some, since i don't *need* my husband...nor have children. :rolleyes: hahaha. damn, doesn't anyone simply believe in wanting to be with someone? :D



    anyway.....it's not simply about sex-ed...it's all about access...and most importantly, hmo's ponying up for payment towards birth control. also...when the author mentions the NL and their very low abortion rate...in wonder how easy/accessible the morning after pill is there.....for those times when there is an 'oops!'......all of these things, combined, would have great impact on abortion rates......b/c all these things, with education and greater accessibility.....would be better options. no one wants to have to be faced with abortion...i'ts a last cost measure. i am sure many, many girls/women would far more like to opt for the morning after pill...easily available and either covered by insurance or inexpensive...same thing for regular BC....etc. it would benefit all.
    Stay with me...
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  • Posts: 5,656
    baraka wrote:
    Um, right. There are a least two of us in this thread that disproves that theory.

    Well here is a liberal with 3 kids.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • Posts: 1,890
    mammasan wrote:
    Well here is a liberal with 3 kids.

    The point is: third world groups are having 12 kids.
    All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
    -Enoch Powell
  • Posts: 7,446
    CorporateWhore wrote:
    The point is: third world groups are having 12 kids.

    And third world groups are despratley poor.
    Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
  • Posts: 1,890
    keeponrockin wrote:
    And third world groups are despratley poor.

    Which says a lot about the first world's below-replacement birthrate levels.
    All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
    -Enoch Powell
  • Posts: 743
    I agree with the main thrust of the article (although it was sensationlised a bit), it is crazy that abstience only education plays such a big part it seems in the U.S. Religious organisations can use that approach in their churches and homes, but not in public schools. However I don't think insurance companies should be paying for contraceptives, this is the responsblity of the guy n gal wanting to have sex. Its a good thing that marriage is not almost a business arrangement these days, although I hardly think marriages in days gone by were so loveless. I would prefer that a girl would want to marry me because she enjoys my company, rather than to provide security.
    The wind is blowing cold
    Have we lost our way tonight?
    Have we lost our hope to sorrow?

    Feels like were all alone
    Running further from what’s right
    And there are no more heroes to follow

    So what are we becoming?
    Where did we go wrong?
  • Posts: 743
    CorporateWhore wrote:
    Which says a lot about the first world's below-replacement birthrate levels.


    Well western governments need to encourage people to have more children. The Australian government for instance has a "baby bonus" which pays a fairly small sum ($5000 i think) for each baby born. This is a tiny sum in the grand scheme of things but Australia's birthrate is starting to climb somewhat (at least in comparison to countries such as Japan). If the western world has a shrinking birthrate and the developing world are having too many babies, then this could be potentially solved by higher immigration levels.
    The wind is blowing cold
    Have we lost our way tonight?
    Have we lost our hope to sorrow?

    Feels like were all alone
    Running further from what’s right
    And there are no more heroes to follow

    So what are we becoming?
    Where did we go wrong?
  • Posts: 29,003
    CorporateWhore wrote:
    Additionally, it's not hypocritical at all because I've never claimed that sex before marriage is wrong or that contraception is immoral. Nonetheless, you should stop grasping for arguments where you have none, consistently. It seems you have trouble actually making a point.

    Americans are not idiots. Our non-immigrant population does very well in academia and high school graduation rates.

    non immigration population? you mean the native americans or are you talking about european settlers, who are immigrants?
    please tell me what point you're trying to make.
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  • Posts: 4,931
    catefrances wrote:
    non immigration population? you mean the native americans or are you talking about european settlers, who are immigrants?
    please tell me what point you're trying to make.

    He means Mexicans, he doesn't like Mexicans. Or other hispanics.
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  • Posts: 5,656
    CorporateWhore wrote:
    The point is: third world groups are having 12 kids.

    So what if they are having 12 kids. If they can support and raise them to be productive members of society who cares how many they have or what political party the are affiliated with. It seems to me that your greatsest fear is that America, someday, will no longer be a nation with a caucasian majority. If the nation is prospering who cares what the racial or ethnic make up is. Illegal immigration is one thing but you just seem to have a problem with poor immigrants, regardless of their legal statis, all together.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • Posts: 9,404
    a worthwhile article from the AJC's Cynthia Tucker......amazing.
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • Posts: 13,202
    A Surprise Left wrote:
    I agree with the main thrust of the article (although it was sensationlised a bit), it is crazy that abstience only education plays such a big part it seems in the U.S. Religious organisations can use that approach in their churches and homes, but not in public schools. However I don't think insurance companies should be paying for contraceptives, this is the responsblity of the guy n gal wanting to have sex. Its a good thing that marriage is not almost a business arrangement these days, although I hardly think marriages in days gone by were so loveless. I would prefer that a girl would want to marry me because she enjoys my company, rather than to provide security.

    should insurance companies pay for viagra? cos they'll fall over themselves to make sure men can still fuck but if a woman wants to do it, they're on their own. that's ridiculous.

    the trouble with marrying for love is misconceptions about what love really is, as evidenced by divorce rates. she may enjoy your company, but when she gets bored, she'll leave. that's the downside of the marrying for love thing... it makes partnership a thing of convenience instead of business. i dont know that that's any better.
  • Posts: 13,202
    CorporateWhore wrote:
    Additionally, it's not hypocritical at all because I've never claimed that sex before marriage is wrong or that contraception is immoral. Nonetheless, you should stop grasping for arguments where you have none, consistently. It seems you have trouble actually making a point.

    Americans are not idiots. Our non-immigrant population does very well in academia and high school graduation rates.

    fair enough. then please tell me why you are so opposed to comprehensive sex ed? why is abstinence-only sex ed a superior idea?

    furthermore, you're wrong about the second point. like hippiemom pointed out, it's not just our coloreds (as you seem to think) who are muddled in this area. i was at a strong college full of intelligent high school grads. their total lack of knowledge about birth control was staggering. many of them thought pulling out was just as safe as a condom, condoms didn't work, the pill would kill you and wouldn't work. it was amazing. and these were the lily-white, intelligent, suburban kids you regard so highly.
  • Posts: 9,404
    CorporateWhore wrote:
    They don't want to "reduce" the number of abortions. They want to eliminate abortion.

    Feminists like to claim that they believe abortion is a "serious" decision (which is codeword for immoral), but that it should be legal because women need control of their own bodies. I find it so funny how abortion is legitimized in our society this way.

    How many instances do we say "this is bad but I am going to do it anyway because the results are good." This is basic ethical folly. How do you produce good results from a bad cause?

    Do I kill someone in order to keep them from stealing my pencil?

    Should we really be aborting babies just so we can afford our bills? In the big picture, is society going to look back on us and think of us any differently than the Romans who left their babies on the hilltops to be exposed?

    Reducing abortion is meaningless if you do not intend to end it. Planned Parenthood has no intention of ending abortion; thus, they should be ended.

    The premise that Planned Parenthood uses is that ending abortion is a logical impossibility. You can end legal abortion, but you will not ever end abortion. Planned Parenthoods argument is one of prevention rather than prohibition. It's actually a more proven effective method than prohibition which only criminalizes the act and causes the criminal element to get involved. See the war on drugs for that failure. Prohibition is closing your eyes and ears to a problem and screaming na na na na na na as if it will then go away. Planned Parenthood would rather have people educate themselves and prevent the issue before it comes to pass and have doctors perform procedures rather than "Dr. Nick." and his coathanger among other horrific methods.

    No one likes the idea of abortion. The whole feminism and controlling the body thing has a lot more to do with contraception and preventing pregnancy to begin with than it ever had to do with abortion.

    I completely understand the take on this issue by many people who feel abortion is murder and I'm by no means telling them they are incorrect or wrong in their feelings that's a completely different argument. I think prevention is a far more realist take on the matter rather than prohibition; but I pretty much feel that way about prohitbition regarding most matters.
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • Posts: 29,003
    CorporateWhore wrote:
    Which says a lot about the first world's below-replacement birthrate levels.


    what it says a lot about is the need for 3rd world groups to have so many children in hopes that some of them attain majority.


    are you talking about 3rd groups within the 1st world or those that are still stuck in the 3rd world?
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  • Posts: 2,074
    I don't get it...more accessable?

    Arent they in alnmost every store, condom vending machines everywhere, schools tell the consequences of actions (as parent should to).
    The only thing I enjoy is having no feelings....being numb rocks!

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