The Great "Fu*k 'em" Debate...

Nevermind · July 2006

decides2dream wrote:

personally, i rather he thinks...especially in regards to commenting about his fans. as i said, it really isn't important to me, i was not personally offended, but yes...it was disappointing. however, sure....in the scheme of things, means nothing truly to me. bottomline, i love his music and i do not look toward him or pearl jam for anything else. sorry if i could actually identify with someone who thinks a bit differently from me, possibly being hurt by it, that is all.

If it doesnt mean anything to you why are you talking about it.

decides2dream · July 2006

Nevermind wrote:

Ed also eplained himself after. you guys are just ignoring it. Ed also could have went on Storytellers and played Green Disease and Bushleaguer and talk the rest of the hour about Bush. Ed doesnt have to make the fans happy. But he does. Im sure if Ed knew that so amny people would try and start shit over one jake he wouldnt have said it. But the people who are offended are taking it way too serous. Also I think Mike pretty much agrees with Ed but he just isnt as extreme as Ed. The music is most important to Mike.

um, we got it.

still doesn't mean we can't still find fault with him starting off with 'fuck 'em'....is that so difficult? no one says ed *has* to do anything. just if you are going to preach about openess and tolerance...and then start off a line of questioning regarding your fans with varying perspectives, with a 'joke' like that.....well, sure to be a little disappointing to some.

nonetheless, i couldn't care less if you take no offense or a lot...but if you think i shouldn't care if ed makes a joke i found at the very least, in poor taste, why can you not afford me the same? why do you care what i think? it's merely my opinion. agree, disagree, makes absolutely no difference to me.

decides2dream · July 2006

Nevermind wrote:

If it doesnt mean anything to you why are you talking about it.

i don't have to have 'meaning' in something to have an opinion on it. just b/c it doesn't effect me personally doesn't mean i can't empathize with those who it may effect.

Nevermind · July 2006

decides2dream wrote:

um, we got it.
still doesn't mean we can't still find fault with him starting off with 'fuck 'em'....is that so difficult? no one says ed *has* to do anything. just if you are going to preach about openess and tolerance...and then start off a line of questioning regarding your fans with varying perspectives, with a 'joke' like that.....well, sure to be a little disappointing to some.

nonetheless, i couldn't care less if you take no offense or a lot...but if you think i shouldn't care if ed makes a joke i found at the very least, in poor taste, why can you not afford me the same? why do you care what i think? it's merely my opinion. agree, disagree, makes absolutely no difference to me.

I honestly dont care. I just dont like it being blown out of proportion. Its sjust a joke and no should be offended by a joke. If he was serious I could understand you being upset. Hell, id be upset if he was serious.

Nevermind · July 2006

decides2dream wrote:

i don't have to have 'meaning' in something to have an opinion on it. just b/c it doesn't effect me personally doesn't mean i can't empathize with those who it may effect.

Youve said something. Then you said it again and again.

mammasan · July 2006

Nevermind wrote:

I honestly dont care. I just dont like it being blown out of proportion. Its sjust a joke and no should be offended by a joke. If he was serious I could understand you being upset. Hell, id be upset if he was serious.

So by that logic a black person shouldn't be offended by an off-color joke then or a jewish person by a holocaust joke. I mean it's just a joke right.

decides2dream · July 2006

Nevermind wrote:

I honestly dont care. I just dont like it being blown out of proportion. Its sjust a joke and no should be offended by a joke. If he was serious I could understand you being upset. Hell, id be upset if he was serious.

i am not upset. i used the word 'disappointed.' i am not blowing anything out of proportion. the subject was brought up, to me that means it's actually wished to be up for varying perspectives/discussion. if you don't like mine, that's fine...your choice...i am in no way trying to convince you or anyone else otherwise.

if i am getting too redundant for you, you can choose to ignore me.

my personal motivations for participating in this discussion, even over and over, if fully my own and i have no need to explain why i choose to participate. obviously, it interests me.

Nevermind · July 2006

Its not the same thing. That would be racism. Which is way more serious. Ed wasnt serious where as someone making a racist joke is.

Nevermind · July 2006

decides2dream wrote:

i am not upset. i used the word 'disappointed.' i am not blowing anything out of proportion. the subject was brought up, to me that means it's actually wished to be up for varying perspectives/discussion. if you don't like mine, that's fine...your choice...i am in no way trying to convince you or anyone else otherwise.

if i am getting too redundant for you, you can choose to ignore me.
my personal motivations for participating in this discussion, even over and over, if fully my own and i have no need to explain why i choose to participate. obviously, it interests me.

I understand. I just dont understand why a joke should disappoint you when he later explained himself and said he respects their views. Theres nothing in this world worth being serious or mad about.

mammasan · July 2006

Nevermind wrote:

Its not the same thing. That would be racism. Which is way more serious. Ed wasnt serious where as someone making a racist joke is.

Ok what about a handicap joke, a blonde joke, a short joke, a bold joke, etc...

Nevermind · July 2006

Thats what they are. A joke. Nothing people are serious about. Just trying to get a laugh out of people. Laughter is a beautiful thing

decides2dream · July 2006

Nevermind wrote:

I understand. I just dont understand why a joke should disappoint you when he later explained himself and said he respects their views. Theres nothing in this world worth being serious or mad about.

well i explained my disappointment, as you have said, many times over. that his mind would immediately go to such a joke...and yes, i do follow the precept "many a truth lies in humor." i think maybe a little hint of ed not being as open-minded as he thinks he is...and you know what, i don't hold him to a higher standard, we ALL do it too. i guess as you suggested earlier, i would've preferd one of those introspective, deep-in-thought 'ed looks'...while he thought of something better to start off with. that is all.

btw - i definitely DISagree that there is nothing in this world to be serious or get angry about. however, that is another topic.

bottomline, do i hold this 'against' ed or think less of him? not at all. i think it was simply a poor choice....and i can see how one could be hurt. i have been hurt by off-hand remarks/jokes by friends and family...even knowing they were jokes. the initial sting is still there. i am a sensitive person, thus i cannot fault someone else if they are sensitive too. i also see nothing wrong with it.

if ed was referencing our government, or even the extreme-right wing as an 'entity'...i probably would not at all be bothered by his 'fuck 'em' comments. moreso b/c it was directed at a contingency of his fans that the disappointment resides.

anyway, obviously it's been quite the topic...and i just wonder why you are participating if you don't want to read other, possibly different, points of view? i mean, isn;t that the whole purpose of this thread and the many others like it? rather a dull discussion if one just says i agree, i agree, i agree.

Nevermind · July 2006

decides2dream wrote:

well i explained my disappointment, as you have said, many times over. that his mind would immediately go to such a joke...and yes, i do follow the precept "many a truth lies in humor." i think maybe a little hint of ed not being as open-minded as he thinks he is...and you know what, i don't hold him to a higher standard, we ALL do it too. i guess as you suggested earlier, i would've preferd one of those introspective, deep-in-thought 'ed looks'...while he thought of something better to start off with. that is all.

btw - i definitely DISagree that there is nothing in this world to be serious or get angry about. however, that is another topic.

bottomline, do i hold this 'against' ed or think less of him? not at all. i think it was simply a poor choice....and i can see how one could be hurt. i have been hurt by off-hand remarks/jokes by friends and family...even knowing they were jokes. the initial sting is still there. i am a sensitive person, thus i cannot fault someone else if they are sensitive too. i also see nothing wrong with it.

if ed was referencing our government, or even the extreme-right wing as an 'entity'...i probably would not at all be bothered by his 'fuck 'em' comments. moreso b/c it was directed at a contingency of his fans that the disappointment resides.

anyway, obviously it's been quite the topic...and i just wonder why you are participating if you don't want to read other, possibly different, points of view? i mean, isn;t that the whole purpose of this thread and the many others like it? rather a dull discussion if one just says i agree, i agree, i agree.

Its a shitty discussion if someone disagrees just too disagree.

decides2dream · July 2006

Nevermind wrote:

Its a shitty discussion if someone disagrees just too disagree.

wasn't suggesting such. merely pointing out, it's not much to *discuss* if we see everything eye to eye. i believe what i type, no worries there. my only point was, wouldn't you at least expect a few, even a very few, to have a different opinion than yours...especially here on the MT forum? so then, why it seemed to get under your skin, or you think i am blowing it out of proportion...when all i am really doing is offering my own personal opinion and perspective on the topic.

also too, keep in mind, none of us can truly *know* ed's intent at all, except ed. i am not even trying to second-guess his intent, i am merely expressing my own thoughts on what actually came out of his mouth.

Nevermind · July 2006

I dont think your overreacting. I think the people who dont like the band anymore because of it or the poeple who were offended by it. Its also true we cant be sure of Ed's intent. But does anyone really believe he was being serious?

surferdude · July 2006

Nevermind wrote:

I dont think your overreacting. I think the people who dont like the band anymore because of it or the poeple who were offended by it. Its also true we cant be sure of Ed's intent. But does anyone really believe he was being serious?

I think he was serious in how they are a hinderance to the change he'd like to see. I think it shows more his frustration level than feelings towards a group of people.

Nevermind · July 2006

I think its a joke. i also think you may be over analyzing his comment.

decides2dream · July 2006

Nevermind wrote:

I dont think your overreacting. I think the people who dont like the band anymore because of it or the poeple who were offended by it. Its also true we cant be sure of Ed's intent. But does anyone really believe he was being serious?

have people actually suggested they are no longer fans b/c of it? i obviously didn't read those posts. i really have only discussed this issue here on the MT, and i haven't seen any say anything like that. sure, i'll agree, that is rather extreme. but hey, it's their choice and their loss....so c'est la vie.

i don't truly believe he was 'serious'...but i don't think it was completely 'innocent' either.

but absolutely, overall, i think ed does respect others' rights to have whatever point of view. and again, none of us can really know his intent...so yea...whateva on that score. i was only discussing my own, personal reaction/thoughts to such a comment.

Nevermind · July 2006

decides2dream wrote:

have people actually suggested they are no longer fans b/c of it? i obviously didn't read those posts. i really have only discussed this issue here on the MT, and i haven't seen any say anything like that. sure, i'll agree, that is rather extreme. but hey, it's their choice and their loss....so c'est la vie.

i don't truly believe he was 'serious'...but i don't think it was completely 'innocent' either. but absolutely, overall, i think ed does respect others' rights to have whatever point of view. and again, none of us can really know his intent...so yea...whateva on that score. i was only discussing my own, personal reaction/thoughts to such a comment.

There was a guy in The Porch who said he will not spend another dollar on Pearl Jam. I completely agree with you with your second paragraph. I just dont like it when people leave behind the music becuase of one joke he made.

decides2dream · July 2006

Nevermind wrote:

There was a guy in The Porch who said he will not spend another dollar on Pearl Jam. I completely agree with you with your second paragraph. I just dont like it when people leave behind the music becuase of one joke he made.

it's sad, absolutely...but completely a CHOICE and dare i say....if one can walk away from the music over it, did it really hold such a strong value to them then? i don't know. i am not suggesting we don't all have our 'lines' b/c we all do......but where we draw it to me, speaks to how greatly we value any one thing.

The Great "Fu*k 'em" Debate...

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