Gun remark makes outdoorsman an outcast

onelongsong wrote:

didn't england take your freedom not too long ago? maybe i'm wrong but isn't that what austrailia day commemorates? england took control of your country and disarmed you.

I'm sure someone elese has already corrected you on this one, but you are so far off the mark that its laughable. There are some in Australia who feel that Australia day commemorates the loss of their freedom. Those are the people that were here before europeans arrived, but for the rest of us it just commemorates the day that the first fleet arrived in Sydney, thus marking the beginning of the first european colony in Australia and the birth of our nation as it is today.

What that has to do with gun laws I'm not really sure. . .

Ok, here we go.

onelongsong wrote:

didn't england take your freedom not too long ago? maybe i'm wrong but isn't that what austrailia day commemorates? england took control of your country and disarmed you.

Quick history lesson for those in the back row who seem to have missed it!
Actually now that I look at wiki (did I mention I love wiki! ) reckon they've done a pretty good job so here's the link :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Australia

And here's another link courtesy of the Australian Government, although I'd be wary of that, they do have a habit of re-writing shit to suit there own purposes.

http://www.cultureandrecreation.gov.au/articles/australianhistory/

So anyway England didn't "take" our freedom, it took the freedom of the indigenous population and a large portion of the beaten down and starving population of Ireland and a portion of the poor and downtrodden of it's own country and it mixed us all up here together. And then ground them all down. Inflicting the will of the British Empire as per usual. That was the times.


Britain didn't "disarm" us. We weren't particularly armed to begin with. Can't have a whole bunch of Aborigines and convicts getting about with guns. People had enough problems when they got here just trying to survive. No one had time for shoot em up games. And as the country was ostensibly set up by the British to be an outpost and a penal colony then it wouldn't do having too many people other than the military armed. And when people were finally able to settle freely here they did. Although I guess we are just as guilty as the Americans for the anhiliation of the indigenous populations.

Australia Day January 26 is merely a recognition of the landing of James Cook in Botany Bay and the beginning of colonization. And certainly not something celebrated by all Australians. Most of us just enjoy the sleep in on the public holiday.

As to us now still being under the British Sovereign, well you'd need to talk to Johnny about that. He cleverly stacked the odds against us voting for a Republic with the clever use of semantics at the Referendum. Yet again. Even I, as a staunch Republican couldn't vote for what he was proposing.
Eventually Australia will be asked the question again and the next time hopefully it won't be so loaded. It is the minority that supports the monarchy in this country. Many of us can still remember The Dismissal and have no desire to be "ruled" by England.

onelongsong wrote:

now if oz was constantly being invaded by outsiders; i think things would be different. your number of invaders is so small that you put them in consentration camps. we can't do that because all humans have rights here. human rights. just because you fell to your knees when the queen arrived on your doorstep; doesn't mean we will.

Our numbers of "invaders" is not small. What is small is our governments ability to police our borders successfully. Our coast line being as big as it is. A practically impossible task. The influx is greater than our governments ability to police it. And they aren't trying that hard anyway, because if they were fair dinkum they'd have had a bit more of a discussion with Indonesia about stopping the people smuggling trade that they got going on.

Hmmm...........now I find our current governments stand on refugees to be appalling, and I will never support them in their efforts as they stand now. But please don't brag to me about Americas stance on human rights. As far as I can see we are fairly much on a par there. Our Detention Centres are a disgrace and a blight on humanity. And America? Well I've got two things to say to you about America and human rights. David Hicks and Guantanemo Bay, and if that doesn't do it for you how bout New Orleans? As far as I can see there is good and bad from both countries when it comes to human rights. Oh and I know that you probably have no idea, us being a itty bitty country of no significance, but we were bombed at least twice to my knowledge by the Japanese during World War 2. Broome and Darwin. Not to mention the subs in Sydney Harbour. So we've had acts of war perpertrated against us too. Not that the world seems to know or even care.

onelongsong wrote:

twice in the last century europe has been taken by a dictator. WWI and WWII. both times it took a free nation to pull europe out of the fire. a young nation. a nation that gave the lives of it's young males to save those who oppressed it.

To be honest OLS this statement shits me. Australia lost a generation of young men to WW1. Far more than we could afford. And we could have sat it out. It's not like it was even happening on our doorstep.

And as to WW2, well although America likes to conviently forget sometimes, we fought right throughout the Pacific. And lost and ruined many lives that we could ill afford to lose.

Let's face it OLS they were WORLD WARS. EVERYBODY was fighting. And EVERYBODY sacrificed.

Now I have NO desire to dictate to America about it's gun laws, it's gun culture or it's constitution. But we have a very different attitude to guns here in Australia and it works for us. My only question has been, why is it necessary for Americans to own or shoot high powered guns? And I think it's sad, that so many Americans seem so concerned about NOT having them.
But at the end of the day it's your choice. Your country, your culture, your decision. We don't need em here. And it's our choice not to have them.

Scubascott wrote:

Excellent post Jeanie. All of it. I don't have the energy for this debate anymore. I don't even know what OLS is arguing anymore. I can't even figure out if he agrees with the sentiments of the guy in the original article or not.

Awww thanks scott! I'm pretty chuffed about that, considering I think so highly of your opinion.

I suspect that onelongsong is having a bit of a lend of us! :eek:

Reckon he's just trying to get a bite! Which I'm happy to supply for the time being. Look, I'm taking it that he likes and collects guns and that he's a bit of a sharp shooter. I also think that he maybe agrees with the guy in the article. But it's made my head hurt to try to sort through all the other stuff just to arrive at that conclusion. But I think he's agreed with you more often than not. And I think that tomorrow when he reads this post I'm probably in for some more shit!

I also think that he's a bloody big shit stirrer!

Scubascott wrote:

No doubt about that

The funny thing is that I think he has a lot more in common with me than he realises. One thing that we don't have in common is the ability to shoot matchsticks. That I would like to see if its true. Sounds like a cool party trick.

I suspect so too scott! I've been noticing some commonalities you seem to share.
Hopefully he will notice too.
And I would LOVE to see if he could shoot matchsticks!! That would be an awesome party trick!!

You're up late tonight. Supposed to be studying?

Scubascott wrote:

Trying to write a paper before friday. If I don't have something to show my supervisor she's going to kill me (In the figurative sense. I don't mean she would literally whip out a gun and kill me like she would have every right to do if I was trying to steal her wallet :rolleyes: )

:D LMAO!!! Too funny!! So who's the shit stirrer now?

So how far in have you got with the paper? I hate having shit like that hanging over my head.

Better hope she hasn't learned trick shooting from onelongsong or your screwed!!

onelongsong wrote:

i think you have a lot more in common with ols than you think. after working with a marine biologist for several years; i came west to make a difference in the food chain. just as man is destroying the oceans; man is destroying the food chain. i stand corrected on many points. and i stand firm on some of my points. the .223 round cannot be used here for hunting anything larger than varments. it is not sufficient to kill say a deer without the animal suffering. it will only wound the deer. our M-16 uses the .223 round. changed from the .308 round which is deadly to humans. the .223 does not have the weight behind it and the extra powder makes it more likely to pass through the human body.
yes; i agreed with you on almost everything. i'll be begging jeanie's forgiveness for a long time i bet. i grew up in a state where the schools were closed for deer hunting season. everyone hunted for food because most of us were poor. every high school bloke owned a gun. back then it wasn't a problem because everyone was taught respect and saftey. in fact; students would come to school with their rifles still in the back window of their pick-up trucks. unloaded of course. guns never really became a problem until meth did.
yes i am a shit stirrer. but i think my biggest problem is communication. in trying to save typing time i shorten explainations which makes me misunderstood. but i also lean towards the extreme to stress points and get people talking. some are not worth commenting on like the bloke that considered a .50 caliber maching gun an assault rifle. but i like a good debate and if you're going to make a stand; you can't be wishy washy. i chose 1 side of the debate and i stuck with it. i learned some things and taught some things.
if hillary clinton gets elected we'll be neighbors next year. he/she/it scares the hell out of me. i almost moved to sydney in the '70s and i have great respect for the aussies. jeanie gave me the vehicle to express the need for americans to be able to defend themselves. i wasn't taking a poke at you.
have a good day and i look forward to future debates. this was fun.
ols

Well I think you can redeem yourself by teaching me and scubascott to shoot at matchsticks!
Coz we both really wanna learn to, right scott?

Scubascott wrote:

................Now I just shoot rabbits when I go back to the farm, which isn't very often these days.

Hey scott do you do that thing with the bunnies where you skin em in one piece? You do skin them right?

Jeanie wrote:

Hey scott do you do that thing with the bunnies where you skin em in one piece? You do skin them right?

Yeah we skin em if we give them to the dogs. Otherwise they leave the stinking skin lying around on the veranda, or eat all the fur and end up with bits of furry crap stuck to their arses. I bet you really wanted to know that! Its late. What are you still doing up?