Conservative Christians Watch Out: A Big Churchgoing Group Is Seeking Political Power

Pearl Jam and toast · July 2006

article wrote:

The Christian left is focusing on:
Fighting poverty
Protecting the environment
Ending the war in Iraq

My god these sound like real Christians! I didn't know they existsed anymore!

At least not in politics..

surferdude · July 2006

Pearl Jam and toast wrote:

My god these sound like real Christians! I didn't know they existsed anymore!

At least not in politics..

But I thought people wanted a seperation of church and state. I get so confused. It seems to me that people only want seperation of church and state when the church doesn't reinforce their point of view.

decides2dream · July 2006

surferdude wrote:

But I thought people wanted a seperation of church and state. I get so confused. It seems to me that people only want seperation of church and state when the church doesn't reinforce their point of view.

as private citizens, the can still affect change, demonstrate and when the time comes, go and vote. doesn't the religious right do that now? we are simply lauding the fact that some other points of view are coming to light within the religious community. no one is inviting religion into government here.

Pearl Jam and toast · July 2006

surferdude wrote:

But I thought people wanted a seperation of church and state. I get so confused. It seems to me that people only want seperation of church and state when the church doesn't reinforce their point of view.

They aren't forcing the church through politics, they're just applying their politics to what jesus said (what he ACTUALLY said).

keeping gays apart is forcing a religion..

helping the poor isn't. (and as decides to dream said, it isn't even about politics there).

there's a HUGE difference.

Cosmo · July 2006

I think we should al re-read Jesus' Sermon from the Mount... Christians and non-Christians. I think we can all learn from that.

know1 · July 2006

NakedClown wrote:

I love how - in threads like this - that perfectly rational and obvious statements like this are often ignored.

While not central to the discussion, it's an argument I'd like to see many of the hardliners on here argue against.

Well said.

Thanks. The thing is, it's not just a sermon I heard. It's something I've believed myself for a long time and so I was glad to hear it preached.

hailhailkc · July 2006

my2hands wrote:

a true christian faith is based on an extremely left view point

i have found it amazing how the right has hijacked it and perverted it to fit their agenda of power, profit, and war

Right...because the only people in this country who have ever been power hungry, profiteering, or used war to line their pockets have been conservatives. A true Chirstian faith is based upon spreading the gospel of Jesus in order to lead others to Christ. That's the biggest message that Jesus asked of us. It's not about left vs. right. There are many aspects of both ideologies that Jesus embraced. Unfortunately, you seem to be unable to comprehend that conservatives also want a clean environment, a solution to poverty, that we ARE accepting of homosexuals (yes, even in the church), and many other things. Instead of listening to us, you simply re-state our words in such a way that they fit your preconceived notion of what a conservative suppossedly is.

hailhailkc · July 2006

polaris wrote:

whatever you need to believe dude is fine with me ...

And whatever you need to believe is fine with us too...;)

WindNoSail · July 2006

SuzannePjam wrote:

Religion Taking A Left Turn?

Conservative Christians Watch Out: There's A Big Churchgoing Group Seeking Political Power

July 10, 2006

Reverend Tony Campolo said: "We are furious that the religious right has made Jesus into a Republican. That's idolatry."* (CBS)

"Jesus never said one word about homosexuality, never said one word about civil marriage or abortion." .

Civil marriage
Matthew 19
Marriage and Divorce
3 The Pharisees also came to Him, testing Him, and saying to Him, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?”
4 And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made[a]them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’?[c] 6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”
7 They said to Him, “Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?”
8 He said to them, “Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, ..committs adultery”

So Jesus never said a word about civil marriage? Hmmm. Also referenced in Mark and Luke.

And abortion wasn't a medical practice so I don't know how he would address this. But there are many references to the child in the womb in the Bible...

Jeremiah 20
17 Because he did not kill me from the womb,
That my mother might have been my grave,
And her womb always enlarged with me.

How do you kill what is not alive, not a person?

Jeremiah 1:5 (New King James Version)

5 “ Before I formed you in the womb I knew you;
Before you were born I sanctified you;...”

All I am pointing out is this guy truthful in his original statement? I don't care what his politics are, just his inacuracy of the faith he is supposed to be preaching.

Pearl Jam and toast · July 2006

First i think it should be noted that there are much better and more important things to worry about as far as Jesus' teachings go... and also, who cares what the Bible says about this, the issue is that it's not right to stop any 2 people from getting married.
But...

Jesus wrote:

“Have you not read that He who made[a]them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’?[c]

That doesn't say "and man shall not marry another man". It's just the application of the reproductive cycle.. the most common "union". I don't think Jesus made sure to keep in mind to include homosexual's marriage rights.. you're twisting the words to say what you want them too there.

chopitdown · July 2006

Pearl Jam and toast wrote:

.. you're twisting the words to say what you want them too there.

just like you're doing

Abuskedti · July 2006

soulsinging wrote:

i truly dont get the christian obsession with sex. what is the deal there?

id agree jesus would probably be big on fidelity, but im not so sure he'd be as anti-sex as the conservative movement seems to be (dont tell teens about it, dont let them ever see a condom, etc etc). i also think he might be a bit disgusted by some of what passes for entertainment, but i rather doubt he'd support censorship. ive got to agree with abortion though, i cant see jesus being a big supporter of it, though i also dont think he'd be in favor of banning it, more making it unecessary.

making it unnecessary.. absolutely! which is exactly what we should be striving for.

Pearl Jam and toast · July 2006

chopitdown wrote:

just like you're doing

not really.. does it say what he's trying to make it say?

No it doesn't.. that's my point.

I'm not saying Jesus said it's alright, but he doesn't say it's not.

Besides, that issue probably wasn't even around then... the Republicans turned it into one when they needed a political stunt to rally the sheep behind in 2004...

soulsinging · July 2006

hailhailkc wrote:

Right...because the only people in this country who have ever been power hungry, profiteering, or used war to line their pockets have been conservatives. A true Chirstian faith is based upon spreading the gospel of Jesus in order to lead others to Christ. That's the biggest message that Jesus asked of us. It's not about left vs. right. There are many aspects of both ideologies that Jesus embraced. Unfortunately, you seem to be unable to comprehend that conservatives also want a clean environment, a solution to poverty, that we ARE accepting of homosexuals (yes, even in the church), and many other things. Instead of listening to us, you simply re-state our words in such a way that they fit your preconceived notion of what a conservative suppossedly is.

i recognize this. what i dont understand and never will, is why these christians will toss war, environment, and poverty out the window to take a backseat to something like... evolution being taught in schools or gay marriage. i mean, in the grand scheme of things, these seem like the kinds of things that are small fish.

Pearl Jam and toast · July 2006

soulsinging wrote:

i recognize this. what i dont understand and never will, is why these christians will toss war, environment, and poverty out the window to take a backseat to something like... evolution being taught in schools or gay marriage. i mean, in the grand scheme of things, these seem like the kinds of things that are small fish.

Well maybe it can be thought of like this..

The Bush administration has represented the right wing christian movement's power. They started a war that right or wrong, they're certainly handling extremely poorly... So why not make evolution or gay marriage an issue to distract it's followers?

Old people vote.. old christians seem to get distracted by things like that, especially when Bush uses the term "moral values" to describe it.

It's taking advantage of people's beliefs. I don't think politicians give a damn about whether 2 men can get married, but if it will win them votes they'll back it.

decides2dream · July 2006

Abuskedti wrote:

making it unnecessary.. absolutely! which is exactly what we should be striving for.

:eek:
sacrelidge!
*covers ears*

damn, makes me think of the whole buddhist discussion yesterday....life is suffering, desire leads to suffering, etc. damnnit, me and my desires.

Pearl Jam and toast · July 2006

decides2dream wrote:

:eek:
sacrelidge!
*covers ears*

damn, makes me think of the whole buddhist discussion yesterday....life is suffering, desire leads to suffering, etc. damnnit, me and my desires.

nothing is everything

decides2dream · July 2006

Pearl Jam and toast wrote:

nothing is everything

i know, i know...........oooohhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmm.
i'm tryin'.

chopitdown · July 2006

Pearl Jam and toast wrote:

not really.. does it say what he's trying to make it say?

No it doesn't.. that's my point.

I'm not saying Jesus said it's alright, but he doesn't say it's not.

Besides, that issue probably wasn't even around then... the Republicans turned it into one when they needed a political stunt to rally the sheep behind in 2004...

that's true he doesn't say it's not alright in that passage. It has always been an issue, it just was never on the ballots like it is now... i figured you say the sheep comment, just like all the good little liberal sheep do

ok that was mean.

Pearl Jam and toast · July 2006

chopitdown wrote:

that's true he doesn't say it's not alright in that passage. It has always been an issue, it just was never on the ballots like it is now... i figured you say the sheep comment, just like all the good little liberal sheep do ok that was mean.

i dunno.. a group of people who blindly follow a book and call themselves "sheep" don't seem to me to be the sharpest tools in the shed... to allow themselves to be dooped by such a backhanded political manuever(not christians, but that certain group you see shouting "i love you" to Bush in those town hall meetings.. usually over 65 years old :rolleyes: )

And if anything, conservatives are sheep, cuz liberals have a much higher tendancy to question our "shepards"

As in, I hate the Democrats.

Conservative Christians Watch Out: A Big Churchgoing Group Is Seeking Political Power

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