Perspective

Abookamongstthemany
Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
edited August 2007 in A Moving Train
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." ~Friedrich Nietzsche, Beyond Good and Evil

This a great quote that always makes me think of the struggles we all face. What really matters is how we choose and carry out our actions. Because good guy, bad guy...it all depends on perspective. Everyone thinks the actions they have chose are 'just' or 'necessary' despite objections, resistance or inner conscience. This opens up a whole world of excuses for things that have no justification...where acts against humanity can easily be rationalized away. So was there ever really a monster? Do we allow ourselves to become one? Thoughts?
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Post edited by Unknown User on
«1

Comments

  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." ~Friedrich Nietzsche, Beyond Good and Evil

    This a great quote that always makes me think of the struggles we all face. What really matters is how we choose and carry out our actions. Because good guy, bad guy...it all depends on perspective. Everyone thinks the actions they have chose are 'just' or 'necessary' despite objections, resistance or inner conscience. This opens up a whole world of excuses for things that have no justification...where acts against humanity can easily be rationalized away. So was there ever really a monster? Do we allow ourselves to become one? Thoughts?


    I see where you're coming from.
    I'm guessing someone may come along and ask for a definition of "monster". What is the human monster?
    I think monsters are something from our childhood. Sometimes imagined, sometimes real. Well-adjusted, healthy-minded people, young and old have the capacity to look not only around, but above the turmoil and tragedy that is faced. In any time or circumstance.
    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • FinsburyParkCarrots
    FinsburyParkCarrots Seattle, WA Posts: 12,223
    Nietzsche: the most sullied philosopher.
  • wolfbear
    wolfbear Posts: 3,965
    gue_barium wrote:
    I see where you're coming from.
    I'm guessing someone may come along and ask for a definition of "monster". What is the human monster?
    I think monsters are something from our childhood. Sometimes imagined, sometimes real. Well-adjusted, healthy-minded people, young and old have the capacity to look not only around, but above the turmoil and tragedy that is faced. In any time or circumstance.
    Nice. I agree. :)
    "I'd rather be with an animal." "Those that can be trusted can change their mind." "The in between is mine." "If I don't lose control, explore and not explode, a preternatural other plane with the power to maintain." "Yeh this is living." "Life is what you make it."
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    FinsburyParkCarrots wrote:
    Nietzsche: the most sullied philosopher.

    Was it the booze?
    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • Eliot Rosewater
    Eliot Rosewater Posts: 2,659
    I've actually been thinking a lot about this for a couple of days. Bono has said many times that we don't need to become a monster in order to defeat a monster. I heard it most recently as he offered that same statement as a prayer just before singing an amazing version of Miss Sarajevo.
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    wolfbear wrote:
    Nice. I agree. :)

    I'm a little bit in disagreement with myself. Mainly for the fact that I haven't read the book, so the quote may be entirely out of context with what the writer had in mind.

    And, I'm only guessing what Abook had in mind. This place, this forum, and how we're dealing with the day-to-day here.
    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • Alex_Coe
    Alex_Coe Posts: 762
    If I fight bears with a machete, am I in danger of morphing into a bear?



    I guess so.

    Rawr.

    Snarl.





    I guess Nietzsche was right all along.

    Rowr!
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    FinsburyParkCarrots wrote:
    Nietzsche: the most sullied philosopher.

    I think I remember reading something about a morphine addiction. I don't know what did him in. I know the story of the horse he saw being beaten...


    Whatever the case, the man was a thinker-communicator extraordinaire.
    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • FinsburyParkCarrots
    FinsburyParkCarrots Seattle, WA Posts: 12,223
    gue_barium wrote:
    Was it the booze?

    From Wikipedia:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Nietzsche

    Philosophers and popular culture have responded to Nietzsche's work in complex and sometimes controversial ways. Many Germans eventually discovered his appeals for greater individualism and personality development in Thus Spoke Zarathustra, but responded to those appeals divergently. He had some following among left-wing Germans in the 1890s; in 1894–95, German conservatives wanted to ban his work as subversive. By the First World War, however, he had acquired a reputation as a source of right-wing German militarism. The Dreyfus Affair provides another example of his reception: the French anti-semitic Right labelled the Jewish and Leftist intellectuals who defended Alfred Dreyfus as "Nietzscheans". The Nazis made use of Nietzsche's philosophy, but did so selectively. After the Second World War Nietzsche's reputation suffered due to this association with National Socialism. Nevertheless, Nietzschean ideas exercised a major influence on several prominent European philosophers, including Michel Foucault, Gilles Deleuze, Jacques Derrida and Jean-Paul Sartre.
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    Alex_Coe wrote:
    If I fight bears with a machete, am I in danger of morphing into a bear?



    I guess so.

    Rawr.

    Snarl.





    I guess Nietzsche was right all along.

    Rowr!

    Bears are bears. Terror (in this case being attacked by a bear) isn't a pre-equisite of monsterdom. Or is it, Alex?
    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    FinsburyParkCarrots wrote:
    Nietzsche: the most sullied philosopher.

    Wouldn't be the first time I've completely mistook a quote. But I still like to spark discussion even if my premise of the quote was way off. I haven't read Beyond Good and Evil yet only Thus Spoke Zarathustra. But even if the quote meant something totally different to him, it's still a topic worth discussing, to me. :)
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    gue_barium wrote:
    I see where you're coming from.
    I'm guessing someone may come along and ask for a definition of "monster". What is the human monster?
    I think monsters are something from our childhood. Sometimes imagined, sometimes real. Well-adjusted, healthy-minded people, young and old have the capacity to look not only around, but above the turmoil and tragedy that is faced. In any time or circumstance.

    Nice reply.

    What would your definition of a monster be?
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Nice reply.

    What would your definition of a monster be?

    Didn't I just give it?
    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • FinsburyParkCarrots
    FinsburyParkCarrots Seattle, WA Posts: 12,223
    Read this essay:

    http://www.geocities.com/thenietzschechannel/tls.htm


    It's where you start, with Nietzsche.
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    gue_barium wrote:
    Didn't I just give it?

    I thought you described more the mindset that creates a monster.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    I thought you described more the mindset that creates a monster.

    Anyone can "create" a monster. You'll need the listeners willing to believe, of course.
    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • norm
    norm Posts: 31,146
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Wouldn't be the first time I've completely mistook a quote. But I still like to spark discussion even if my premise of the quote was way off. I haven't read Beyond Good and Evil yet only Thus Spoke Zarathustra. But even if the quote meant something totally different to him, it's still a topic worth discussing, to me. :)


    i think you can take a quote out of context in order to discuss it without attributing your interpretations back to the author.....:)
  • FinsburyParkCarrots
    FinsburyParkCarrots Seattle, WA Posts: 12,223
    cutback wrote:
    i think you can take a quote out of context in order to discuss it without attributing your interpretations back to the author.....:)

    Nietzsche would say, that's the only way to read.
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    cutback wrote:
    i think you can take a quote out of context in order to discuss it without attributing your interpretations back to the author.....:)


    :) It's really all we can do, I guess. Take what we each can from it. I really want to read the book especially now.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    cutback wrote:
    i think you can take a quote out of context in order to discuss it without attributing your interpretations back to the author.....:)

    Absolutely.

    I hope I didn't imply otherwise.
    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.

Categories