Socialism

69charger
69charger Posts: 1,045
edited October 2008 in A Moving Train
"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism, but under the name of liberalism they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program until one day America will be a socialist nation without ever knowing how it happened." – Norman Thomas, American socialist
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  • gabers
    gabers Posts: 2,787
    Replace key words with "neo-conservatism" and "nazism" and you can get the same results. This is fun!
  • polaris
    polaris Posts: 3,527
    yeah ... cause socialism is such a bad word!! ... haha ... meanwhile - continue to create a situation that allows a small set of people to exploit and steal from everyday people as well as fight immoral wars around the world ...
  • DOSW
    DOSW Posts: 2,014
    Honestly, I have no idea why the word "socialist" has such a negative connotation in America. Are we so brainwashed that we'll believe every other system besides capitalism is inherently bad?
    It's a town full of losers and I'm pulling out of here to win
  • Collin
    Collin Posts: 4,931
    69charger wrote:
    "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism, but under the name of liberalism they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program until one day America will be a socialist nation without ever knowing how it happened." – Norman Thomas, American socialist

    So the American people will knowingly adopt socialism but they refuse to call it socialism?
    THANK YOU, LOSTDAWG!


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  • polaris
    polaris Posts: 3,527
    Collin wrote:
    So the American people will knowingly adopt socialism but they refuse to call it socialism?

    americans would never adopt socialism
  • meme
    meme Posts: 4,695
    I think this is a very interesting quote.
    We have come to equate liberalism with capitalism to such an extent that we are not even realizing how deeply illiberal a capitalist nation the United States has become. Liberalism at its best stands against accumulations of capital such that effectively kill competition. In a way, in a status quo where such accumulations jeopardize the freedom and subsistence of individuals, liberalism favors "spreading the wealth around."
    ... and the will to show I will always be better than before.
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    DOSW wrote:
    Honestly, I have no idea why the word "socialist" has such a negative connotation in America. Are we so brainwashed that we'll believe every other system besides capitalism is inherently bad?

    PINKO!!!! :p:D
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • Strangest Tribe
    Strangest Tribe Posts: 2,502
    With the recent events the word Socialism means nothing. All our banks are certainly liking it.
    the Minions
  • DOSW
    DOSW Posts: 2,014
    catefrances wrote:
    PINKO!!!! :p:D

    Seriously though... is there something I'm missing? Because it seems like our fear of socialism is just some lingering red scare from the Cold War. I really hope there's more to it than that.
    It's a town full of losers and I'm pulling out of here to win
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    People have to realize that socialism and communism are two completely different forms of government. Under a socialist system you can still have a democracy. Look at some of the European countries and Canada, to a certain extent. Also this new fear of socialism is complete and utter bullshit. The GOP is using this bail out and Obama's liberal stance as a way to great a new boogie man, SOCIALISM. Meanwhile it was a Republican president and Congress that expanded the size and scope of the federal government more than any other administration since FDR.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    DOSW wrote:
    Seriously though... is there something I'm missing? Because it seems like our fear of socialism is just some lingering red scare from the Cold War. I really hope there's more to it than that.

    tis easy to understand. socialism flies in the face of free market economics and the whole capitalist sytem. it is believed the two systems can not be, to any degree, compatible and must always be adversarial. personally i think thats bullshit... but what do i know? :D


    ill pseudo-paraphrase thoreau here: ;):)

    give me the peace and freedom of a balanced soul rather than the security of a balanced book
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • Strangest Tribe
    Strangest Tribe Posts: 2,502
    I really believe we've propagated a new hybrid economy.
    It's a cross between a capitalist greedy pig and a socialist lap dog.

    This is why the so-called "economists" are completely baffled.
    the Minions
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    Strangest Tribe wrote:
    I really believe we've propagated a new hybrid economy.
    It's a cross between a capitalist greedy pig and a socialist lap dog.

    This is why the so-called "economists" are completely baffled.

    "economists" are baffled cause the numbers just dont add up :p:D:D
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • _
    _ Posts: 6,657
    Let me just get this straight. Those who are crying "socialist" with regard to Obama are doing so based primarily on a 3-5% increase in taxes for a small minority of people - is that correct?
  • meme
    meme Posts: 4,695
    scb wrote:
    Let me just get this straight. Those who are crying "socialist" with regard to Obama are doing so based primarily on a 3-5% increase in taxes for a small minority of people - is that correct?

    Pretty much :)
    But the best part of it is that 99 percent of those up in arms about this socialist policies are not in that minority.
    ... and the will to show I will always be better than before.
  • ajedigecko
    ajedigecko \m/deplorable af \m/ Posts: 2,431
    DOSW wrote:
    Seriously though... is there something I'm missing? Because it seems like our fear of socialism is just some lingering red scare from the Cold War. I really hope there's more to it than that.
    i agree with your comment about "fear of socialism"....i think it is a lingering scare tatic that will be ending.
    we have many socilalist programs: police, education, fire. i am not scared of these programs.
    live and let live...unless it violates the pearligious doctrine.
  • Strangest Tribe
    Strangest Tribe Posts: 2,502
    catefrances wrote:
    "economists" are baffled cause the numbers just dont add up :p:D:D
    yeah, the forcasting models can't calculate the emotions.
    We need to create a "psychological economist" job market. :)
    the Minions
  • DriftingByTheStorm
    DriftingByTheStorm Posts: 8,684
    scb wrote:
    Let me just get this straight. Those who are crying "socialist" with regard to Obama are doing so based primarily on a 3-5% increase in taxes for a small minority of people - is that correct?

    and government funded healthcare.

    and a continuance of SOCIALIZED retirement security (SOCIAL security).

    Remember he is the guy that keeps saying "Republicans want to PRIVATIZE social security" ... oh my! GASP! I know its scary to think you would be free to lose or keep your own money in the market, rather than give it to the government, who doesn't even save it for you. YOU'VE ALREADY LOST IT, with uncle sam! HE'S BROKE!

    And the promise of a large increase in social programs across the board.

    New volunteer corps, new requirements for school kids to be involved, new tax incentives based on these social programs, etc.

    Yeah.
    That's why people call Obama socialist.

    :cool:
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • _
    _ Posts: 6,657
    DriftingByTheStorm wrote:
    and government funded healthcare.

    and a continuance of SOCIALIZED retirement security (SOCIAL security).

    Remember he is the guy that keeps saying "Republicans want to PRIVATIZE social security" ... oh my! GASP! I know its scary to think you would be free to lose or keep your own money in the market, rather than give it to the government, who doesn't even save it for you. YOU'VE ALREADY LOST IT, with uncle sam! HE'S BROKE!

    And the promise of a large increase in social programs across the board.

    New volunteer corps, new requirements for school kids to be involved, new tax incentives based on these social programs, etc.

    Yeah.
    That's why people call Obama socialist.

    :cool:

    But we ALREADY HAVE government-funded healthcare, social security, a volunteer corps, etc. So I still don't get it. It's not like he's creating some totally new society or inventing taxes or something.
    :confused:
  • SundaySilence
    SundaySilence Posts: 537
    The definition of socialism is that the government controls the means of production. That will not happen.

    Government stepping in where there are market inefficiencies is basic Keynesian economics. Keynesian economics brought us out of the great depression and is the foundation of every successful economy since.

    Obama and McCain are haggling over price, and what makes for a more effective economy. Not over systems of government.

    I saw this quote over the weekend by FDR's fed chairman, Marriner S. Eccles, describing what led to the great depression. Under Reagan and the Bushes we have seen income inequality increase dramatically. Under Clinton it decreased slightly. We have now reached levels not seen since 1929.

    "...a giant suction pump had by 1929-30 drawn into a few hands an increasing portion of currently produced wealth. This served them as capital accumulations. But by taking purchasing power out of the hands of mass consumers, the savers denied to themselves the kind of effective demand for their products that would justify a reinvestment of their capital accumulations in new plants. In consequence, as in a poker game where the chips are concentrated into fewer and fewer hands, the other fellows could stay in the game only by borrowing. When their credit ran out, the game stopped."

    -Eccles

    sounds familiar, huh?

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