just remeber, when you bash Christ, you don't get 40 lashes

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  • NoK
    NoK Posts: 824
    malabogia wrote:
    that's the key I think. If you say things that are open to be misinterpreted, you just let it be so, just let your words lose its real meanings and not interfere and since you have to power to see that this will happen, why bother and say those things in the first instance. or why create humans that would not misinterpret their creator's words. Wouldn't it be better than what we see today.

    Not really.. it would be like living in a machine world where everyone is exactly the same.. and we wouldnt be having this debate because we agree on every single point the world has to offer :)
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    NoK wrote:
    Not really.. it would be like living in a machine world where everyone is exactly the same.. and we wouldnt be having this debate because we agree on every single point the world has to offer :)

    If you ask me or like some other people we are machines, yet we are all different.

    We've discovered the secret of life.
    Francis Crick
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • malabogia
    malabogia Posts: 59
    NoK wrote:
    Not really.. it would be like living in a machine world where everyone is exactly the same.. and we wouldnt be having this debate because we agree on every single point the world has to offer :)
    ehe, this is good. but religion only supplies the basic lines and rules to obey but leaves your life to you to live it anyway as long as you obey the basics. You can be a man who has not done a good deed for somebody else for your entire life but obey the other rules and I think you just miss the bonuses.
    even with a perfect religion, I believe our world will be full of diversities.
    Look, we still have three main religions that claim to come from the same god. three different religions...
    "when one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion." Robert Pirsig
  • baraka
    baraka Posts: 1,268
    mammasan wrote:
    Take the teachings of Jesus Christ. Look how far his teaching have been distorted throughout history by mankind. What he preached could be considered perfect. Love thy neighbor and treat others as you wish to be treated. Simple and perfect, but it was mankind who took this and transformed it into what best fit his agenda.

    Good point. I take away something completely different from the words of Jesus than the 'religious right' do.
    The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
    but the illusion of knowledge.
    ~Daniel Boorstin

    Only a life lived for others is worth living.
    ~Albert Einstein
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    "Ted Haggard, the minister who was caught with a gay prostitute, has just finished a three-week sex addiction program. He says he is now 'completely heterosexual.' Haggard says he will prove he is completely heterosexual by having sex only with men who are completely heterosexual" --Conan O'Brien
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • NoK
    NoK Posts: 824
    malabogia wrote:
    ehe, this is good. but religion only supplies the basic lines and rules to obey but leaves your life to you to live it anyway as long as you obey the basics. You can be a man who has not done a good deed for somebody else for your entire life but obey the other rules and I think you just miss the bonuses.
    even with a perfect religion, I believe our world will be full of diversities.
    Look, we still have three main religions that claim to come from the same god. three different religions...

    My initial debate wasn't about religions as they are today it was about the logic.. where it was stated that if God created a perfect religion why are they at the place they are now.. my answer was "the imperfections of humans"..

    Regarding the 3 religions I am not a mass believer i hold my own set of beliefs but the case you state about a person going through life without doing any good deeds is not true. For example, 1 fundamental principle of Islam is zakat which means giving to the poor. Judiasm, Christianity, Buddhism and many others also have principles which involve the person doing good deeds.
  • malabogia
    malabogia Posts: 59
    NoK wrote:
    My initial debate wasn't about religions as they are today it was about the logic.. where it was stated that if God created a perfect religion why are they at the place they are now.. my answer was "the imperfections of humans"..

    Regarding the 3 religions I am not a mass believer i hold my own set of beliefs but the case you state about a person going through life without doing any good deeds is not true. For example, 1 fundamental principle of Islam is zakat which means giving to the poor. Judiasm, Christianity, Buddhism and many others also have principles which involve the person doing good deeds.
    I see. but I think it is inevitable to come to the point where you ask "if a perfect religion was sent to imperfect humans so that they can or will abuse it, and yet it is very the same god who created imperfect humans, where is the logic? why all the hassle? And we are talking about an entity who has no limits to its powers. Of course, one may ask, if it has the power why not create perfect humans and not bother with any religion. I think there is no end to this. It just doesn't seem right when you think about the limitless power and the possibilities. I can't remember who said "If god didn't exist, we would have to invent it" but it is a perfect analysis of human nature.
    ohh it was voltaire. what a perfect irony.
    edit : and you don't go to hell for not giving zakat. to be a real muslim "you just need to believe in Allah and believe muhammed is his prophet (ehe someone insured himself here). even if you are a murderer, criminal, thiev, you only spend some time in hell until you are clear of your sins and go to heaven. If you believe in god and his prophet but stay neutral, you still go to heaven. Pretty easy actually to get a ticket to heaven.
    "when one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion." Robert Pirsig
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    so this woman teaches in a muslim country and it doesn't occur to her to seek someone's advice on whether applying the name of the prophet to an inanimate object might cause a problem, knowing how touchy muslims can be when it comes to bringing their religion into disrepute.
    now before you all jump on my head i think in this case someone should just lighten up.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • NoK
    NoK Posts: 824
    malabogia wrote:
    I see. but I think it is inevitable to come to the point where you ask "if a perfect religion was sent to imperfect humans so that they can or will abuse it, and yet it is very the same god who created imperfect humans, where is the logic? why all the hassle? And we are talking about an entity who has no limits to its powers. Of course, one may ask, if it has the power why not create perfect humans and not bother with any religion. I think there is no end to this. It just doesn't seem right when you think about the limitless power and the possibilities. I can't remember who said "If god didn't exist, we would have to invent it" but it is a perfect analysis of human nature.
    ohh it was voltaire. what a perfect irony.

    I agree there are an infinite set of possibilities. In the end it is the differences in humans that dictate the differences in beliefs.
  • malabogia
    malabogia Posts: 59
    Yep, agreed. I have to invent the god now for myself and then go to bed :D
    "when one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion." Robert Pirsig
  • NoK
    NoK Posts: 824
    catefrances wrote:
    so this woman teaches in a muslim country and it doesn't occur to her to seek someone's advice on whether applying the name of the prophet to an inanimate object might cause a problem, knowing how touchy muslims can be when it comes to bringing their religion into disrepute.
    now before you all jump on my head i think in this case someone should just lighten up.

    She's getting 15 days (5 days already served) and deportation. I think she'll be happy they are paying for her plane ticket out of there.
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    NoK wrote:
    She's getting 15 days (5 days already served) and deportation. I think she'll be happy they are paying for her plane ticket out of there.

    plus she'll get to sell her story to the very reputable british tabloid press. ;):D
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • NoK
    NoK Posts: 824
    catefrances wrote:
    plus she'll get to sell her story to the very reputable british tabloid press. ;):D

    and write a book about it in a years time haha :D

    I say it'll be called "My fifteen days in hell"
  • 810wmb
    810wmb Posts: 849
    NMyTree wrote:
    So an all loving god sends the people/souls he allegedly loves and created in his own image, to hell; for not believing in him or following him? Wow, what an egomaniac! Exactly what kind of love would that be?

    he gives you a choice, you have made yours
    i'm the meat, yer not...signed Capt Asshat
  • 810wmb
    810wmb Posts: 849
    SoonForgotten2 wrote:
    What is the United States of America, Alex?

    hey, if it wasn't for us you would be singing heil hitler
    i'm the meat, yer not...signed Capt Asshat
  • 810wmb
    810wmb Posts: 849
    Ahnimus wrote:
    "Ted Haggard, the minister who was caught with a gay prostitute, has just finished a three-week sex addiction program. He says he is now 'completely heterosexual.' Haggard says he will prove he is completely heterosexual by having sex only with men who are completely heterosexual" --Conan O'Brien

    now, THAT is funny!
    i'm the meat, yer not...signed Capt Asshat
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    810wmb wrote:
    hey, if it wasn't for us you would be singing heil hitler

    OMFG!!! please do not try and tell me the US won WW2 all on their own, you'll only embarass yourself.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • NoK
    NoK Posts: 824
    catefrances wrote:
    OMFG!!! please do not try and tell me the US won WW2 all on their own, you'll only embarass yourself.

    Don't argue with him he will slap his head, roll his eyes and tell you he disagrees. He did that to me before.
  • 810wmb
    810wmb Posts: 849
    what i said was "hey if it wasn't for us, you would be singing heil hitler"

    damn cate, yr eyballs going?


    but while yr at it, please tell us about ww2...and how the u.s. didn't do shit, ok?
    i'm the meat, yer not...signed Capt Asshat
  • 810wmb
    810wmb Posts: 849
    NoK wrote:
    Don't argue with him he will slap his head, roll his eyes and tell you he disagrees. He did that to me before.

    why argue with you? we disagree

    so what?
    i'm the meat, yer not...signed Capt Asshat

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