I'd go just to view the people ...

angelica wrote:

Are you all for telling them that about evolution, too? That it's only a story we tell ourselves about the underlying principles of life?

"Underlying principles of life" have very much to do with the basics: water, air, earth, food, and procreation (fucking): not storytelling. Storytelling is something we did by the campfire.

Purple Hawk wrote:

then we will have to agree to disagree..even though i hate cliches...

i think you can agree on core principles, but disagree on how to get there. you can disagree on which "side" espouses your own core principles, even though both sides have the same goal in mind.

way i see it...almost everyone agrees on individual freedoms...it's about how to achieve that goal is where we disagree. and maybe the motives of the other side... we cynically view the other side as the enemy...if we "impose" our views, i.e. express them, maybe that's a start to communication.

I differentiate "expressing" views from "imposing" them. Expressing is completely acceptable, even dramatic, opinionated, views. Imposing crosses the line, in terms that we hook ourselves into cycles and get natural consequences. Yes, where this happens, this serves a purpose of us learning the hard way (rather than in theory) how to eventually solve the negative situations we create, and thereby grow. (look around this board for examples. )

gue_barium wrote:

I don't think 'religion' is the problem per se'. I think it is the teaching of lies as truth that is harmful. I have no problem with the great human history of storytelling, even in the Biblical context, but at some point in time the teacher/parent has got to let on to the child that it is only storytelling.

The principles of religion are valid. They all operate on a love thy neighbor, do no wrong concept. This is a good thing. Taking everything too literally is conducive to becoming essentially naive imo.

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

Until I discovered science I had the notion of heaven and hell driven into my brain as the ultimate reality since birth, and I truly believed that one day I would ascend to heaven to live in a cloud filled (or something to that effect) utopia somewhere forever... and ever amen.

So yes. I think for a lot of people to think otherwise causes them to unravel at the seams and dismiss it as sheer nonsense (or perhaps evil thoughts) and revert back to the comfort zone immediately into prayer asking for guidance and strength during this time of weakness.

Some people are seriously hooked on believing their god. That just it...it's all about believing to no end...it's completely circular in function and design so as not to stray from the flock so to speak. It close minded in my opinion. It ultimately closes the mind to further possibilities and understanding.

when we're born, we have whatever it is that takes the role of filling our symbolism for the "higher" artistic, subjective and meaning aspects of life. For many, this is symbolized by religion. Whether it's religion, or art, or philosophy or what, the symbolism is just representing an aspect of our nature. These views become hard-wired in us. It's not the symbols that are "bad". It's life problems and how they affect us and cause us pain, and that become emotionally entangled with the symbol. A symbol cannot be bad.

When the symbols happen to be associated with much distortion, and pain/discomfort, like you describe, then it's not the symbols that are causing the problem. It's the distortions.

Yes, people are hooked on having a vested interest in staying connected with the Higher aspects of their perception and meaning, because it becomes an internalized part of them. There are many serious challenges that people experience moving to a new developmental stage, and most get frozen at one in adulthood and do not progress. Given this, its easy to understand why people are hooked on their beliefs. (which includes beliefs of all worldviews, by the way)

i liked the evolution question in the republican debates. next time they should ask them to raise their hand if they think the earth is about 6000 years old. i bet at least 3 hands go up........

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

Aha... I knew it...they were teenage dinosaurs...much smaller of course. It's all so clear now

scroll down to how'd they fit:
http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2001/dinos_on_ark.asp

Forget fitting in all the animals...where the hell did Noah keep all that food? They were living on the ark for almost an entire year!... That would be like 5 arks alone just for food..which would rot long before. Not to mention the disease and death from the unsanitary living conditions . You couldn't shovel the shit overboard fast enough in 24 hours from 8000 animals. The urine would just run everywhere. Every fly in within 1000 miles would land on the arc and cause it to fester..

the ark was only 450 feet long by 75 feet wide and 45 feet high.

Oh yeah Noah was 600 years old...so he must have been some kind of immortal alien from another planet.

honestly...no offense...but what a crock of shit story...

or you could say...well...just god... God made it possible...just believe

hey look, someone is attempting to apply reason and logic ... and thought to the bible.

robbie wrote:

hey look, someone is attempting to apply reason and logic ... and thought to the bible.

reason and logic are apparently highly over rated...and evil...

The way I call it... if you are a nice person to me... and are nice to other people... and kind to animals... I don't care if you worship Allah or Jesus or Satan or Tom Cruise. No one assigned the task of judging other people's beliefs to me.
On the other hand... if you are a selfish, nasty, decietful person who tries to convince me of your righteousness because of your religion... whatever religion, including the belief in non-belief... I'm seeing through you and taking your word for what it's worth... which ain't much.
And when I say I want nothing to do with the Church... I mean ALL Churches. I see Churches as nothing more than businesses with tax exempt status. This doesn't mean I don't believe in God... I just see God and religion as two completely seperate entities.

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

Aha... I knew it...they were teenage dinosaurs...much smaller of course. It's all so clear now

scroll down to how'd they fit:
http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2001/dinos_on_ark.asp

Forget fitting in all the animals...where the hell did Noah keep all that food? They were living on the ark for almost an entire year!... That would be like 5 arks alone just for food..which would rot long before. Not to mention the disease and death from the unsanitary living conditions . You couldn't shovel the shit overboard fast enough in 24 hours from 16,000 animals. The urine would just run everywhere. Every fly in within 1000 miles would land on the arc and cause it to fester..

the ark was only 450 feet long by 75 feet wide and 45 feet high.

Oh yeah Noah was 600 years old...so he must have been some kind of immortal alien from another planet.

honestly...no offense...but what a crock of shit story...

or you could say...well...just god... God made it possible...just believe

i always figured it as all the animals KNOWN TO NOAH in HIS world. not all the animals in the world as we know it. that would just be ridiculous.
as to the age of Noah - the measure of a year way back when, is different that what we know it.

gue_barium wrote:

Well, the 'age of noah' is contained in Genesis, and there is a point of contention today as to the meaning of 'day' in the Genesis article:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/overheads/pages/oh20011221_97.asp

yes i know it says in genesis how old Noah was. but remember it says a lot of things in the bible that may not be necessarily so as we know it. or even how we interpret things.
don't think i am some sort of biblical apologist. i am deconstructing it as i would any work of fiction.