Democrats warn Chavez: Don't bash Bush

even flowI'll start with this. I dare ask would Bush show up in a hostile environment better yet open his yap and preach to the crowd? Move the UN to Iraq and then everybody can show up and beef and nobody will complain.[/quote wrote:

Bush wouldn't be allowed to speak his mind in Venezuela. I'm all in favor of the UN being moved to Iraq. I want that piece of shit organization out of my city.

Byrnzie wrote:

Why should criticism of Bush be restricted to Americans? The actions of Bush and his thugs have consequences for all of us. Not just Americans. I'll criticise Bush anytime I want. Fuck Him! He's a half-witted monkey-brained fratboy. Fuck him and all his kind!

Who said the left wasn't intellectual?

Byrnzie wrote:

No shit? I always imagined that heads of state would often be found munching chicken nuggets in MacDonalds!

Yeah, that's exactly what I meant by my post.

even flow? wrote:

And all this time I thought you lived across the ocean. :rolleyes: ha ha ha



I have to wonder when the UN was created?

I don't get it.

My take on these comments is that...we have free speech in this country. If he wants to say those things about Pres. Bush...then he has the right. Hell..in this country we permit the KKK to hold rally's...so, w/ this being the case...Chavez has the right to say anything he wants. -Freedom of Speech, a notion this country was founded on.
(I agree though w/ the points that Bush couldn't go to Iran/Venezuala and say those things...-But i think that shows what is great about the U.S.)
We need to get back to those Ideals and stop being so hypocritical. (i.e. freedom of speech/press/religion - which are quickly dissolving into just words)

Like someone else posted...Bush has repeatedly called out a host of countries and leaders as being the "axis of Evil" and at times made comments like "God told me to do this/that". Bush has done the same things.

Let's be honest...if many of us were born in Venezuala...Chavez would be our Golden Boy.

"I love my country...because my country...is all i know...."

If you want to say i'm anti-american...whatever...I don't think so....but I do believe in Justice...and Fairness and calling a spade a spade. If we can go around the world telling people what they can and can not do...they certainly have the right to speak their minds about it. I'm quite sure the people from Iraq have earned the right to criticize Bush - it is not an honor held by just us Americans.

THC wrote:

My take on these comments is that...we have free speech in this country.

Who is "we"? Last I knew Chavez was a foreign national. Do you have information to dispute that? Or are you suggesting that our constitutional rights now extend to everyone?

Chavez had the right to speak in front of the General Assembly at the UN. No question. And we have the right to laugh at him and call him a shitbag. But he did not have the right to wander into a church in NYC and speak. That was a privilege granted to him by the US govt. One which I'm certain wouldn't have been reciprocated.

Truthmonger wrote:

THC wrote:

Let's be honest...if many of us were born in Venezuala...Chavez would be our Golden Boy.

Good point. I 'd go even further and say that if you were from Latin America, and had the experiences that they have had with the U.S., then you too might not view Chavez as the devil he's being made out to be by the U.S.. American involvement in that part of the world has hardly been upstanding or
exemplary.

Exactly.

THC wrote:

Who is "our"....in 'our' constitutional rights? I would point to a document called the Declaration of Independence that says..."ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL...AND ENDOWED BY THEIR CREATOR WITH CERTAIN INALIEABLE RIGHTS, AMONG THEM ARE LIFE, LIBERTY, AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS".
this was before there was an America...it mentions nothing of having to be an American to receive these rights. Lets not forget this country was founded by ex-pats from England.

as far as i know...these statements had no *astricts* pertaining to nationality or country of origin. They were comments made to encompase human beings.

I've already said...that what makes this country great in many respects is the fact that we would let someone come into our country and have freedom of speech. Its the fact that you could do that in America and not places like Iran/Venezuela, that makes other countries possibly "want" our system of gov't and laws/rules - which we usually claim. (agree w/ you on that point).

But, I would also go so far as to say...that if you are not willing to grant everyone the freedom of speech...then in fact...you do not have any freedom of speech. Does this mean you have to show a passport in the U.S. to say something? That certainly does not sound like freedom of speech to me...it sounds like selective freedom of speech.

The Constitution of the United States of American applies to US citizens. There are many rights afforded to US citizens which we don't apply to foreign nationals - voting, education, welfare / social services. We limit rights of travel, movement, employment, duration of stay, etc... to foreign nationals. We issue visas to some but deny entry to others. We allow some to stay and work, but others to only visit. The constutuion is not a universal document which applies to citizens of the world. Limiting speech of a foreign national does nothing to erode our first amendment rights as citizens of the US.