The Big Scary Word

Gonzo1977
Gonzo1977 Posts: 1,696
edited October 2008 in A Moving Train
Socialism
OOOHH BIG SCARY WORD!!!

Anyone that thinks the "Spread the Weatlh" comment has anything to do with a Socialist ecomonic plan is out of their fucking minds. It's opposite to the Republican's "Trickle Down Ecomomics" which they've been milking since the Reagan Years. And guess what?

TRICKLE DOWN ECONOMICS DOES NOT WORK FOLKS!!!!. How much more proof do you need of this?

The Republican's have not had a new economic plan since Ronald Reagan. It's almost laughable how they keep dragging this dead horse tax plan into every single election for the last 27 years.

Trickle Down Economics have failed us miserablely over and over again.

The very rich in this country do not let their money trickle down...The wealth get's clogged at the top and it stays there.

What Obama is proposing is almost identical to what Bill Clinton's tax plan was...what...16 YEARS AGO?? and the Republican's called that a "Socialist Plan" back then as well.

Thing was...IT ACTUALLY WORKED!!! We had the highest job growth this country had ever seen. The economy during the Clinton years was the best in our lifetime. People had jobs and we had an SURPLUS.

How quickly we forget.

Obama's plan like Clinton's is a re-structuring of the tax system. It's meant to stimulate Middle Class America...Put more money in the pockets of Middle Class Families so that they can buy Houses, Cars, Clothes, Food and move the economy.

So what's the problem here?

The majority of us are not amoung the very rich that John McCain wants to reward.

We all probably fall right square in the Middle Class Tax Bracket which Obama wants to stimulate.

Don't buy into this Recycled Republican Retoric.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • pjalive21
    pjalive21 St. Louis, MO Posts: 2,818
    trickle down economics worked for me, sorry it didnt for you

    and to make it clear im no way rich by any means

    its ok Obama and his Socialism is coming so you can stop being bitter and get your piece of the pie without having to work for it

    and the reason why the economy is the way it is is because of the stupid loans that were forced to be given to people who couldnt afford them...you can blame the majority of the Dems and some Repubs for forcing that one on loan companies

    what do you think is going to happen if you take more money from the "rich"...people will lose jobs so the "rich" dont lose more money....you tax the oil companies more, do you think they are going to eat the cost? hell no, they will raise prices on consumers
  • Gonzo1977
    Gonzo1977 Posts: 1,696
    pjalive21 wrote:
    trickle down economics worked for me, sorry it didnt for you
    You can stop being bitter and get your piece of the pie without having to work for it

    and the reason why the economy is the way it is is because of the stupid loans that were forced to be given to people who couldnt afford them...you can blame the majority of the Dems and some Repubs for forcing that one on loan companies


    Wow!!

    Do you watch Fox News much?

    I'm very happy for you that Trickle Down Economics worked for you. You're in the minority and definatley on a completly different reality than about 99.9% of the rest of the United States...Must be nice to be living in a haze of false reality.

    Trickle Down Economics has been nothing short of a disaster. The "Regan Revolution" as it's so glummly refered to by waterhead Reaganite Republican's like Bush Sr. George W, and John McCain like to mask the fact that under this horrific and utterly greed based tax plan, "Trickle Down Economics cut income taxes on the very rich from 70% down to 27%. Corporate tax rates were also cut so severely that they went from representing over 33% of total federal tax receipts in 1951 to less than 9% in 1983!!! These are the lowest in the industrialized world !!!

    Thanks to Reagan The Government was so badly awash in red ink that Reagan doubled the tax paid only by people earning less than $40,000/year.

    The idea that money will some how trickle down through the troths and fall upon the middle class is a naive and utterly fabricated idea.

    The plan never works because in order for it to work, It means that Republican's actually have to control their spending. Something which they always promise to do but never actually acomplish.

    Because of this repeated failure we end up with a crushing deficit that often leads to cutting of social programs and government programs that directly aid the Middle Class and Poor in this Country and most horrifically ends up with some Asshole like Reagan, Bush Sr, George W, tapping into the US Social Security Trust Fund

    Reagan most notably had to borrow more money in his 8 years than the sum total of all presidents from George Washington to Jimmy Carter combined!!!!!!!

    Trickle Down Economics is nothing more than a ploy to pad the pockets of the very wealthy in this country.

    I'm glad you got rich off it my Friend. But It hasn't worked for a large portion of this country and it has absoulutley nothing to do with Hard Work.
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    im a marxist... so socialism doesnt scare me. but then again not many things do scare me.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • polaris
    polaris Posts: 3,527
    catefrances wrote:
    im a marxist... so socialism doesnt scare me. but then again not many things do scare me.

    try this one on for size ... President of the United States: Sarah Palin
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    polaris wrote:
    try this one on for size ... President of the United States: Sarah Palin

    that doesnt scare me cause it aint gonna happen.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    pjalive21 wrote:
    trickle down economics worked for me, sorry it didnt for you

    and to make it clear im no way rich by any means

    its ok Obama and his Socialism is coming so you can stop being bitter and get your piece of the pie without having to work for it

    and the reason why the economy is the way it is is because of the stupid loans that were forced to be given to people who couldnt afford them...you can blame the majority of the Dems and some Repubs for forcing that one on loan companies

    what do you think is going to happen if you take more money from the "rich"...people will lose jobs so the "rich" dont lose more money....you tax the oil companies more, do you think they are going to eat the cost? hell no, they will raise prices on consumers

    Ok just to point out a few flaws in your argument.

    1. No one is going to get money they didn't earn. Obama's tax plan let's anyone making under $250,000 keep more of the money they earned. So this notion that we are going to be sending people in lower tax brackets a check they didn't work for is beyond stupid.

    2. The reason the economy is in the shape it's in has little to do with the bad loans. They have a part to play in all this but the biggest role goes to lending institutions who where packaging up these risky loans and selling them as mortgage backed securities. Also the Federal reserve's manipulation of interest rates plays a major role in the crisis. The financial sector and the FED banked on the housing bubble to keep expanding and never burst, which is completely idiotic. Had they taken the housing bubble for what it was and not invested so much capital in it we would not be in the middle of this mess.

    3. The federal government can not force banks and mortgage companies to make loans. The federal government has no authority to do so. What the federal government did was come in and prevent banks from "Red Lining" which was a tactic used by banks to disqualify an applicant simply based on the neighborhood he/she lived in.

    4. Yes it is possible that over taxing business and the higher income bracket can have a negative effect on our economy and that is why I am weary of Obama's tax plan but the reason you mentioned are pretty much utter bullshit.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • jeffbr
    jeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    Gonzo1977 wrote:
    Thing was...IT ACTUALLY WORKED!!! We had the highest job growth this country had ever seen. The economy during the Clinton years was the best in our lifetime. People had jobs and we had an SURPLUS.

    If you actually attribute that to Clinton's policies, rather than to a private sector tech boom, you're very confused. Clinton was a caretaker president, and did a fine job of it. He neither harmed nor helped the boom that was taking place.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • pjalive21
    pjalive21 St. Louis, MO Posts: 2,818
    Gonzo1977 wrote:
    Wow!!

    Do you watch Fox News much?

    I'm very happy for you that Trickle Down Economics worked for you. You're in the minority and definatley on a completly different reality than about 99.9% of the rest of the United States...Must be nice to be living in a haze of false reality.

    Trickle Down Economics has been nothing short of a disaster. The "Regan Revolution" as it's so glummly refered to by waterhead Reaganite Republican's like Bush Sr. George W, and John McCain like to mask the fact that under this horrific and utterly greed based tax plan, "Trickle Down Economics cut income taxes on the very rich from 70% down to 27%. Corporate tax rates were also cut so severely that they went from representing over 33% of total federal tax receipts in 1951 to less than 9% in 1983!!! These are the lowest in the industrialized world !!!

    Thanks to Reagan The Government was so badly awash in red ink that Reagan doubled the tax paid only by people earning less than $40,000/year.

    The idea that money will some how trickle down through the troths and fall upon the middle class is a naive and utterly fabricated idea.

    The plan never works because in order for it to work, It means that Republican's actually have to control their spending. Something which they always promise to do but never actually acomplish.

    Because of this repeated failure we end up with a crushing deficit that often leads to cutting of social programs and government programs that directly aid the Middle Class and Poor in this Country and most horrifically ends up with some Asshole like Reagan, Bush Sr, George W, tapping into the US Social Security Trust Fund

    Reagan most notably had to borrow more money in his 8 years than the sum total of all presidents from George Washington to Jimmy Carter combined!!!!!!!

    Trickle Down Economics is nothing more than a ploy to pad the pockets of the very wealthy in this country.

    I'm glad you got rich off it my Friend. But It hasn't worked for a large portion of this country and it has absoulutley nothing to do with Hard Work.

    if you work and get a paycheck, trickle down economics worked for you

    i work for major league baseball, they make a crap ton of money and i get some of it with a paycheck, get paid descent for what i do..dont know what to tell you

    i also dont think someone who did something with their life and makes alot of money shouldnt have to give more money to someone who chose mediocrity

    some of the poorest cities in America were/are run by the same policies that Obama wants to put upon the country...Detroit, Cleveland, St. Louis..i could go on

    a perfect example of Obama's policies are Indians..look at what the governemnt did to them and their reservations? they are amongst the poorest people in the US..why? the government gave them handouts

    its all in a little research...if you think Obama is the savior, just like with anything, time will show your the truth

    and one last thing..."watch Fox News much"...find something new to use, thats old and overplayed...just because someone has an alternative view to yours doesnt mean they only watch Fox News
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    jeffbr wrote:
    If you actually attribute that to Clinton's policies, rather than to a private sector tech boom, you're very confused. Clinton was a caretaker president, and did a fine job of it. He neither harmed nor helped the boom that was taking place.

    That is true but I think the point he was trying to make was that his tax plan didn't hurt. Of course those where different times and Clinton presiding over an up market and a strong economy. I honestly don't think that either tax plan is any good. I don't think they will damage our economy but they definitely will not help it.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • polaris
    polaris Posts: 3,527
    catefrances wrote:
    that doesnt scare me cause it aint gonna happen.

    it is definitely a possibility - this is the american electoral system: mccain is by no means out of this election ...
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    polaris wrote:
    it is definitely a possibility - this is the american electoral system: mccain is by no means out of this election ...

    yeah but me dying is also a possibility and that doesnt scare me either. :)
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • pjalive21
    pjalive21 St. Louis, MO Posts: 2,818
    mammasan wrote:
    Ok just to point out a few flaws in your argument.

    1. No one is going to get money they didn't earn. Obama's tax plan let's anyone making under $250,000 keep more of the money they earned. So this notion that we are going to be sending people in lower tax brackets a check they didn't work for is beyond stupid.

    2. The reason the economy is in the shape it's in has little to do with the bad loans. They have a part to play in all this but the biggest role goes to lending institutions who where packaging up these risky loans and selling them as mortgage backed securities. Also the Federal reserve's manipulation of interest rates plays a major role in the crisis. The financial sector and the FED banked on the housing bubble to keep expanding and never burst, which is completely idiotic. Had they taken the housing bubble for what it was and not invested so much capital in it we would not be in the middle of this mess.

    3. The federal government can not force banks and mortgage companies to make loans. The federal government has no authority to do so. What the federal government did was come in and prevent banks from "Red Lining" which was a tactic used by banks to disqualify an applicant simply based on the neighborhood he/she lived in.

    4. Yes it is possible that over taxing business and the higher income bracket can have a negative effect on our economy and that is why I am weary of Obama's tax plan but the reason you mentioned are pretty much utter bullshit.

    1. all you have to do is have a job and you get money back, you dont ever of had to pay taxes to get a refund

    2. agree

    3. the federal government does what they want and barney frank and co. did force loan companies to give out bad loans to minorities and people who financially couldnt afford them..that just takes a little research
  • jeffbr
    jeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    mammasan wrote:
    That is true but I think the point he was trying to make was that his tax plan didn't hurt. Of course those where different times and Clinton presiding over an up market and a strong economy. I honestly don't think that either tax plan is any good. I don't think they will damage our economy but they definitely will not help it.

    I agree. I feel the same way you do about the tax plans. Not enough difference to get me excited, and neither has a spending reduction plan, so nothing will be resolved.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • polaris
    polaris Posts: 3,527
    catefrances wrote:
    yeah but me dying is also a possibility and that doesnt scare me either. :)

    yeah ... you're not afraid of dying but would you be afraid if Sarah Palin was president?
  • fugawzi
    fugawzi Posts: 891
    Trickle down economics. That's not money that's trickling down on you it's something else. Here's what bugs me. You hear a lot about this 4 word phrase "spread the wealth around." Why is it that the same people bitching and moaning about that, aren't bitching and moaning about how we spread the debt around? $700 Billion bailout? EVERY taxpayer will be paying for it. Sounds like a form of SOCIALISM to me. Socializing debt.

    Also, I find it funny that McCain and Palin are really harping on this (not that they have many choices they're pretty desperate right now) when the governor herself said this recently. This is her quote:

    "And Alaska - we're set up, unlike other states in the union, where it's collectively Alaskans own the resources, so we SHARE IN THE WEALTH when the development of these resources occurs."

    OOPS! Like someone here said the other day, I think her snake ate it's own tail.
    West Palm 2000 I & II/West Palm '03/Tampa '03/Kissimmee '04/Vic Theater '07/West Palm '08/Tampa '08/NYC MSG I & II '08/Philly Spectrum III & IV '09/Cleveland '10/Bristow '10/PJ20 I & II 2011/Pensacola '12/Pittsburgh '13/Denver '14
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    pjalive21 wrote:
    1. all you have to do is have a job and you get money back, you dont ever of had to pay taxes to get a refund

    2. agree

    3. the federal government does what they want and barney frank and co. did force loan companies to give out bad loans to minorities and people who financially couldnt afford them..that just takes a little research

    1. You need to file and have taxes taken out of your paycheck in order to receive a refund. I have never heard of someone getting a refund when they didn't pay taxes. That refund is basically the federal government giving you back some of the money they took from you.

    2. We agree so no need to discuss.

    3. The federal government can not force a public or privately held company to loan out money. I'm not making that up, my girlfriend works in the banking industry and has extensive knowledge on every banking industry regulation because she has to, it's part of her job. The federal government can suggest that the loan to less qualified candidates, they can relax regulations across the industry if they do so as a favor , but they can't force the banks to underwrite those loans. The banks did this to themselves. they where awash in capital because of the FED lowering of interest rates and they saw a way to make even more money by giving adjustable interest loans to under-qualified applicants. The only think the federal government did wrong was sit back and watch the banks do this, knowing that it could have a potential devastating outcome in the long term.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    jeffbr wrote:
    I agree. I feel the same way you do about the tax plans. Not enough difference to get me excited, and neither has a spending reduction plan, so nothing will be resolved.


    To me a spending reduction, a significant across the board spending reduction, is the the most important part of a new budget policy. Without that at the fore front it's pretty much crap to me.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • It_Wasnt_My_Surface
    It_Wasnt_My_Surface Posts: 851
    George Bush's tax cuts were the biggest this Country has ever seen. The economy went up 20% from Clinton to Bush. This whole real estate shit started with the Clinton Administration. I'm not out of my mind....I just read the facts. and "spreading the wealth" is exactly what the socialist party is about.
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    StrangestTribe27 wrote:
    George Bush's tax cuts were the biggest this Country has ever seen. The economy went up 20% from Clinton to Bush. This whole real estate shit started with the Clinton Administration. I'm not out of my mind....I just read the facts. and "spreading the wealth" is exactly what the socialist party is about.

    The economy increase because of the massive debt Americans where getting themselves into. There was no job growth, their was no increase in Medium HH income. The growth was completely based on the housing bubble and that's it. Bush's tax cuts neither helped nor hurt us as it had little effect on the economy. The only think his tax cuts did was erase a budget surplus.

    I would also like to know how restructuring the tax brackets is "spreading the wealth"? Is Bill gates going to start sending every family in the US a check every month? No, all it simply means is that people in the lower tax brackets get to keep more of the money they worked for, which is great. People in the higher tax bracket get to keep less, which in my opinion is not a great idea, but that is in no way a redistribution of wealth or socialism. People who are saying this have no idea what a real distribution of wealth or socialism really is. Trust having parents who lived in a country that practiced socialism and a real distribution of wealth I have learned enough to know that Obama's plan, as faulty as it is, is no where near that.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • FiveB247x
    FiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    Not that I'm a socialist, but I always find it funny when people in our country get all worked up about discussing this. People obviously don't realize or recognize that in other industrialized nations which have particular areas which are "socialist" is that they pay far less and receive lots more. Meaning, we are US citizens as a whole, pay far more and receive a lot less for our tax dollars.
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis

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